Veterans Affairs Committee on May 6th, 2022

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Minister. Here's the interruption that you were expecting.

If there are any numbers, I would really like them passed on to the committee. We do need to see them. They would especially be relevant for our study.

As you know, Minister, veterans who marry after 60, RCMP officers and federal civil service workers can put between 30% to 50% of their pension away every single month to build a bit of a nest egg to support that loved one. This is very concerning to me, of course, because that means our people who served us in many different ways are now in a poor state for their whole retirement. That's something we should all be concerned about.

We heard a story about a veteran who put aside $153,000 for their loved one after years and years. Unfortunately, she is not well, and it doesn't look like she's going to make it. It looks like he will be losing her before she loses him. All of that money, $153,000, is completely gone. They do not get it back.

Minister, I'm wondering if you could talk to us about why, when somebody would take a part of their pension, make that choice because of the system we have in place, submit that money to make sure their loved one has that nest egg, and if they lose that loved one, not only do they lose that person, but they lose all of those historic savings.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Rachel, are you talking about a personal investment?

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

No, Minister. I'm talking about people who married after 60, and who know they will not be able to leave a survivor's benefit for their loved ones because they were married after 60. They take part of their—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes, and they saved them—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

They take part of their own pension and put it aside. They put between 30% and 50% aside. In this case, it was $153,000 over the last many years, which they saved in a nest egg for their loved one out of their own pension—something for which they filled out a form from your department. Now that the loved one is dying, they will not receive any of that money back.

We want to know where that money is going and why it isn't returned to the person. It's their pension money.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Minister, you have 15 seconds.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Mr. Chair, I appreciate that you're very stern, but the truth is that I will get the information and make sure you have it. Yes, I certainly will.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Let's now go to a five-minute round of questions. I invite MP Anna Roberts to open her mike, please.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question for the minister is regarding funds allocated for PTSD service dogs. What organizations will be receiving these funds and how will the department guarantee they are utilized responsibly? Who will be accountable for that?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Of course, service dogs are of great interest and we feel they can help veterans with a mental condition. That's why we funded a pilot project to evaluate the safety and efficiency of service dogs. As you're likely aware, we funded Wounded Warriors Canada for a project in 2019, I believe.

One of the big problems we have with this issue is, quite simply, that no set of national standards has been put in place. We tried to bring everybody together a few years ago to achieve standards, but unfortunately, there is not very much agreement among people on how to put these standards together. It's something I can assure you we will continue to work on, but that's simply where we are on this issue.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Thank you for that response.

You said you funded a pilot project through Wounded Warriors. How much were they funded and what did they do with the money? Were they able to support more dogs for the veterans? I'd like to understand this in more detail.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'll let the deputy minister expand on the service dog issue. It's quite an issue, really, and I appreciate the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Please go ahead, Mr. Ledwell.

[Paul Ledwell]

Merci, Mr. Chair.

Thanks for the question.

Yes, there was funding in 2019 for Wounded Warriors through the veteran and family well-being fund. They received funding directly to expand their PTSD service dog program. A single investment took place at that time. We do provide support, I should say, for veterans who have costs associated with the care and maintenance of vision guide dogs. We provide support of up to $1,500 for that.

The Wounded Warriors program was a single-year grant of $245,000. As the minister indicated, we are still trying to ascertain the standards that will be associated with this before we can develop anything further with respect to support for service dogs.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Maybe you could elaborate on this pilot project.

Did you also have the opportunity to hear from witnesses or individuals from the veterans community who already had a service dog, and work with them on how to assist in the training, so we ensure the service dogs are trained for the purpose of helping our veterans?

[Paul Ledwell]

Thank you for that follow-up question.

We have relied on Wounded Warriors themselves to come forward with that report. We note that they were tracking the placement of 63 PTSD service dogs through a certified service dog provider. At the end of the 2021-22 fiscal year, there remained approximately 101 individuals on the wait-list. That's information we received from Wounded Warriors. We are tracking that through the one-year investment and relying on reports back from Wounded Warriors themselves on the use of those service dogs.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

It's pretty important to indicate too that the standards are a problem here, Deputy, for us to continue and to expand the service. It's to get the standard. We're working on that, but it's hard to bring the parties together and establish a national standard. That's really what we need.

[Anna Roberts, Conservative, King—Vaughan, ON]

Wouldn't it be more advantageous for us to ask our veterans who have service dogs to participate in a national standard? I'm sorry that I wasn't here in the last Parliament, but I have spoken to several veterans and pain management doctors. Would it not be advantageous that we receive some information or do a pilot project with them?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes. You're right, but there was a little problem with reaching agreement in that area too, of course, so I'll let the deputy expand on that. He has all the stats on that issue. We have had a problem getting a national standard and some agreement on just what they should do.

Deputy, I'll leave it to you, but I think that's one of our problems.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Deputy, you have 15 seconds.

[Paul Ledwell]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As the minister has indicated, we do have a challenge with a national standard. It has not been established yet. Currently, there are clear service dog standards in only three provinces in the country, in British Columbia, Alberta and Nova Scotia. We want to see a national standard and really see this applied across the country so that we can serve all veterans in all parts of the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much. Your time has expired.

I'd like to invite MP Rechie Valdez for five minutes. Please go ahead.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister MacAulay and Mr. Ledwell, thank you so much for your time today in answering all of our questions.

Minister, in your opening statement you provided an update on the backlogs. We recently heard about some challenges that female veterans face with the backlogs. They shared their testimony with us. Can you provide an update on what's being done to address the backlog specifically for female veterans?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

I think it's appropriate for me to say that we had a national women's conference for veterans. The first one was in 2019, I believe. I had just become minister and had indicated at the time that it would become an annual event. I think that's part of the way to understand this. We had some problems. Women veterans have different requirements from men veterans, and of course we have been working on all of these things over the last number of years.

That said, the investment of nearly $340 million gives the department the finances to basically do the research and find out just exactly what's needed and the people to deal with the files along with it. That's basically what we've done.

As you know, we have reduced the backlog by basically 50% or a little more, but again, that's not good enough, as everybody agrees. We have to continue to do that. Moreover, we have to continue to do research, and that's why this conference was put in place.

There are a number of veterans who have some different requirements, such as women and aboriginal veterans. After the Second World War, the majority of veterans were male. Of course, now things have changed substantially and the department is adjusting to that. We have a dedicated team—I think they call it a “spike team”—working on female applications, which is helping.

Luc asked a question on francophones. With francophone and women veterans we also have spike teams in place to help bring the numbers down.

Perhaps the deputy would like to add to that, but that's basically what we have been doing.

[Paul Ledwell]

Mr. Chair, I could just add one item to what the minister has underlined, and that is we are modernizing the table of disabilities so that it reflects female veterans. We have a legacy issue with the table of disabilities, as much of it was established during a time when the overwhelming majority of those who had served were male. We're modernizing that table to make sure it truly reflects the needs of all veterans, especially female veterans.