Veterans Affairs Committee on May 6th, 2022

[Paul Ledwell]

Mr. Chair, regarding Mr. Casey's request, I just want to add that we are going to review the departmental plan and explain exactly why there is a difference between the figures.

So we are going to provide the exact reason, Mr. Desilets, to explain the difference between what is presented, that is, the figures you referred to, and the figures in our plan, which have changed because of certain amounts that were confirmed just before the budget was announced.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

That's perfect.

There is a point on which we never manage to agree, and that's the reduction in wait times for applications made by francophones. No matter what angle I come at the figures from, the fact remains that since 2018, wait time for applications by francophones varies between 40 and 60 weeks.

I'm a visual person and maybe I'm the one who doesn't understand what's going on. To make it easier to interpret the data, I created a graphic showing all wait times for applications by francophones, anglophones, women, men, and so on.

To summarize, since 2018, wait times have remained constant. It was said that measures would be taken and we wouldn't see the results for a few months.

Is that how I am to understand it, Mr. Ledwell?

[Paul Ledwell]

I can tell you there has really been an improvement. We really are concerned about this. The past and present figures have to be clear and we have to report the results and what we are planning to do. The department is making efforts to improve the situation.

Mr. Harris, do you want to comment?

[Steven Harris]

Thank you, Mr. Ledwell.

I'm going to try to answer the question quickly.

A little earlier, Mr. Desilets, you asked questions about the francophone employees who were hired to help us reduce wait times. I first want to confirm that we are going to be keeping those employees.

Second, from 2020‑2021 to 2021‑2022, there was a seven-week reduction in the average wait time for first applications associated with applications by francophones. That shows a definite improvement. The average is now 45 weeks. However, we still have a lot of work to do.

As I have explained in other meetings and discussions, a lot of applications from francophones had been in the backlog for a long time. When we make decisions on those applications, it has an impact on the resources available to us.

Hiring additional francophone personnel is going to allow us to further reduce the discrepancy in processing times between applications from anglophones and applications from francophones.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I'm looking forward to seeing that. We're hoping there will be an improvement and we are all working for the same outcome.

For several months, the same terms haven't been used in the information sent to us. It would be to all our benefit to pay attention to that. Sometimes figures on backlogs are being compared with figures on first applications. That is what created a lot of confusion when I raised the question of the 77‑week wait time, a month or two ago.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 45 seconds left.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I would now like to draw attention to something that seems obvious to me.

In a document published by the department, there is a table entitled “Total number of pending disability benefit applications”. One of the columns is entitled “Incomplete applications needing more information”.

For the last quarter, there were 12,381 incomplete applications and 2,147 applications ready for assignment. I'd like to draw attention to this difference.

What is going on? Is this discrepancy explained by the fact that the computer system is too complex and the bureaucracy doesn't allow all applications to be processed?

There are six times more incomplete applications than applications ready for assignment. That isn't a question, it's an observation. Our employees' time is being wasted and it's appalling for our military members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Desilets, your speaking time is up.

Ms. Blaney, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of you for being here today.

My first question is on the office of women and LGBTQ2 veterans. I'm wondering if you could tell the committee how much is in the budget for this office and how many staff are working in this office.

[Paul Ledwell]

Mr. Chair, if I could, I'm going to ask Ms. Blaney if my colleague Steven Harris could address that issue, because it's an office that he works with very closely.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I always want to hear from Mr. Harris. Thank you.

[Steven Harris]

I don't mean to pass this as well, but actually Ms. Meunier would be best positioned to give you an answer.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Could somebody answer the question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Ms. Meunier, are you going to answer? You're not going to pass it....

[Amy Meunier, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy and Commemoration, Department of Veterans Affairs]

No.

First, I just want to thank the chair and the committee for having me here. I hope the more I come, the more comfortable it will all feel.

Thank you for the question, Ms. Blaney. I'm new in my role here, but there are about six substantive employees in that office. There are others who support the effort throughout the department and not on a full-time basis as we undertake initiatives, whether those are in research or in-service delivery in the corporate services area. There are about five to six full-time employees.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I did ask about the budget, so I'm going to ask for that again, but I also am curious. What are some of the current research projects this office is working on? Just to preface that, if you don't have an answer for me, could you get that information to the committee?

[Amy Meunier]

Sure. I don't have the specific dollar amount associated with that office. I'm sure I might have it here somewhere in the background in my notes. I might look to the research elements first.

We are focused on looking towards disaggregated data and better understanding elements associated with veteran marginalized or vulnerable populations, such as women or LGBTQ2. We are, as part of our research agenda, really focusing on those areas over the next year or year and a half.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I will look forward to hearing more specifics. I understand you're looking into those groups, but it would be interesting to hear what the key issues are that you're finding and addressing.

My next question is about VAC's new rehabilitation contract. Once this program starts, will veterans be able to continue to see their own psychiatrists and medical professionals, or will they be forced to go to a provider sourced by the professional?

Maybe I'll give that to Mr. Ledwell.

[Paul Ledwell]

Ms. Blaney, thank you.

Mr. Chair, if I could, this is an important undertaking, of course, because it ensures that veterans have access to the medical, psychological and other supports they need. The intention with this is to ensure that they have the supports in the locations where they need them as well through the means that are provided—so through their personal provisions—but also to fill in gaps where it is not possible and is sometimes challenging for veterans to get access. So we also build provisions to allow for access to specialists through these kinds of programs.

I will ask Mr. Harris if he could provide some detail—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

No, that's okay. I'll let that one go. Maybe the next question I'll have Mr. Harris answer.

I'm trying to figure this out. I know there is a pilot that VAC is running right now. When this happens, what I'm hearing is that the case manager doesn't finish working with the veteran. Instead, the veteran is pushed into guided support given by a veterans service agent.

What I'm trying to understand is what the difference is between these two roles and what the checks and balances are to make sure that, when that person is moved out of case management and into guided support, they are still doing well. I'm just curious, because it sounds to me as though this is really pushing people through the system.

I'm wondering if there is a bonus paid to the provider to get the veterans off those services sooner. If there is a bonus, what does that look like?

[Steven Harris]

Thank you again for the question. Maybe I can provide a bit of an answer.

The case manager and the veterans service agent actually work together. People who are in a case management situation are usually going through a rehabilitation program. That—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Just so you know, Mr. Harris, that is not what I am hearing at all. I'm surprised that you're saying that. I'm just putting that on the record. That is not at all what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that they leave the case manager, that they go to the veteran service agent, and that there is no continuation of care between the two.

[Steven Harris]

They do work together. It is a continuum of care with respect to how Veterans Affairs manages it.

When a veteran is going through a rehabilitation program, they are assigned a case manager. As the veteran completes the rehabilitation program, in other words, achieves the goals that have been set out as part of that program, the case manager will have discussions with them around where they are in terms of their rehabilitation. If they've achieved those goals and can be self-sufficient, and there are a number of checks and balances in the course of having that conversation—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Could we get a copy of what those checks and balances are? Those would be really helpful. Then, if you—

[Steven Harris]

Sure, absolutely.