Debates of Jan. 20th, 1994

Speech From The Throne

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Fine.

[The Deputy Speaker]

If there is no question, then, I will give the floor to the hon. member for Fraser Valley West.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, may I take this opportunity to offer my sincere congratulations to you and to all members of the House of Commons on their election to this 35th Parliament.

I would also like to express my sincere appreciation to all the people in Langley, Aldergrove and Matsqui, British Columbia for expressing their confidence in me by sending me here to represent them.

This is the time when the eyes of Canada are on the new government so I think it only fitting that I speak today about vision.

Historians I am sure will look back on October 25, 1993 as a landmark in Canadian elections. Canadians as never before spoke out in a loud clear voice for the need to change. The old way of doing things is just not good enough any more.

Some would diminish the importance of the result by labelling it merely a protest vote. What, I ask, is insignificant about a protest vote. The people of this country were protesting the way government conducts business and it is up to us to show there is a better way.

We have for two decades witnessed federal governments living beyond their means and it is time to stop and hold all politicians accountable. But rather than look back in anger we prefer to look forward with hope.

The throne speech yesterday provided a glimpse of optimism, something rare in these uncertain economic times. We have heard talk of a new spirit of openness and co-operation between political parties, an idea I would like to applaud. However we heard the same message in the speech from the throne in 1984. It lasted about two weeks. Let us hope it lasts longer this time.

What I wish to emphasize in the strongest possible terms is that if there is no true commitment to open the books of government to the intense scrutiny they need, then all of this talk of co-operation and a new way of running government will be just another echo bouncing down these historic halls.

All MPs should be involved in the detailed, critical analysis of government spending. If the government makes good on the pledge to give more power to MPs in its committees this could be a positive change.

I am also encouraged to see the government has adopted some, though not enough, of our recommendations with respect to perks for members of Parliament. However, since the government has already made its decision I am at a loss as to why a

$200,000 study is currently underway to assess parliamentary compensation and perks.

I am pleased to see the government's commitment to reform the MPs' pension plan. Ending double-dipping however does not go nearly far enough.

Our party has made significant recommendations to reform the pension plan. We would be glad to share the results with the House, certainly at no charge.

Other ideas, like the appointment of an ethics counsellor, sound good on the surface, though I cannot help but wonder at the necessity of adding yet another patronage position. If all MPs simply act as Canadians expect them to, with the integrity the throne speech referred to, there would be no need for a watch dog.

True reform comes from the individual. We cannot legislate integrity. We also cannot hope to create real lasting jobs by throwing billions of dollars at a program called infrastructure. Infrastructure means roads, bridges and sewers. Yet one of the first examples of this spending has gone toward the construction of a civic centre. The government has admitted the announcement was politically motivated. Will this infrastructure program create good, long term jobs? We will see. Be assured we will be watching.

We cannot solve joblessness in this country with more government spending. Anyone who thinks we can is living in a dream world, a dream world we can no longer afford.

As I look around, as one of the more than 200 first-time parliamentarians, I cannot help but be awe-struck not only by the sense of history in these halls but by the responsibility that comes with this chair. I see all around me representatives with many different perspectives on the future of Canada. Though there may be distinct ways of looking at things, no matter how you alter your angle of sight one thing never changes, the bottom line still looks like the bottom line.

If we continue on the path we are on we will no longer be discussing whether the glass is half empty or half full. It will simply be empty. All of the money this government spends will be accounted for and the members of Parliament must be accountable to their constituents.

The Reform Party's constitution states: "The duty of elected representatives to their constituents must supersede obligations to their political parties". To ensure I make good on this pledge we have initiated advisory groups in Fraser Valley West made up of constituents from a variety of backgrounds and political persuasions. Although these groups are just in the formative stage, early indications are that I will be taken to task if I stray from the course they chose.

If we are willing to give members of Parliament more power in the House of Commons let us take it a step further and get the Canadian people involved in the process.

The people I represent from British Columbia are no longer satisfied with the status quo. The federal government has consistently failed to live within its means and my constituents want a direct say in how their tax dollars are spent. These people want guarantees that budgets will be balanced, long term debt will be substantially reduced and expenditures will be necessary and legitimate. It is no longer good enough simply to spend money. We must know where it is coming from, where it is going, why it is going there and why we are not paying our bills first.

Most social programs have merit but that is not enough. In our critical financial state merit is no longer the overriding criterion. Federal spending must be cut to the point where we can once again live within our means. By capping expenditures we will take that first step.

The emphasis on controlling spending is not just for the sake of getting Canadian business going again. On the contrary, every young Canadian should get involved in these decisions. For the first time in our history young people are being told to accept a lower standard of living than that of their parents. This system is unacceptable.

A high standard includes more than financial considerations. It includes our social programs that have come to set us apart as a caring nation. The only way we can preserve the things that make us proud to be Canadian is by ensuring that we can afford them today and will be able to afford them in the future.

Canadian businesses have to live within their means. Canadian families have to live within their means. We must insist that the government live within its means as well. What is prudent for every family in Canada is also prudent for the Government of Canada. There simply is no choice.

In closing I would like to mention an attitude I have observed lately with respect to how Canadians view themselves. Talking to people who have just returned from a trip abroad seems to be one of the few times we hear about what a fantastic country this is. Why is it that Canada looks like such a land of opportunity when viewed from afar but at home we seem to lose sight of the fact?

The Liberals' red book is called Creating Opportunity . I hope the creation of opportunity includes a planned program of deficit and debt reduction as the number one priority.

[Dennis Mills, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by congratulating you on your new appointment. I would also like to congratulate the member for Fraser Valley West on his maiden speech.

I want to suggest something to the member with which we in the House will have to concern ourselves. The hon. member mentioned in his speech on a couple of occasions that the bottom line was the same bottom line. Having come from a business background I realize the bottom line in business is earnings per share. It is how much money we made and how much we have to invest or reinvest. However in this boardroom the bottom line is different. The bottom line for us as members of Parliament is people. It is a totally different bottom line.

When we talk about the concerns of our constituents-and I have to concern myself with my constituents-we think of the number of people who are unemployed and the number of people who are on welfare. They are looking to us to try to create some confidence and try to stimulate the economy which has lacked confidence for the last four or five years.

The member talked about the convention centre in Quebec City being a forum for bringing business together, creating markets and opportunities for business exchange and exports. It will create not only short term construction jobs. It will create a convention environment where things can happen, where sales, marketing and everything else can take place that will put people back to work so that we can ultimately reduce the $30 billion disbursement on unemployment insurance and welfare last year.

Can he not see that as a possible way of reducing and meeting the objective?

[The Deputy Speaker]

The member for Fraser Valley West has about a minute and a half.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank you for leaving me enough time to answer the question. I appreciate that we only have ten minutes and that he has five.

There is no question that people are a great resource. One has to wonder why people lack confidence today in our government and in our system. The overriding feature of losing confidence in my riding-and I am sure it is so in many other ridings-is the fact that the government continually overspends and lives far beyond its means.

My speech addressed a major concern of the people I represent. Unless we get this under control there will be many more people out of work. Just creating and spending more money in government does not provide the impetus to get confidence back in the country.

I thank the hon. member for his question. I would like to send him back a message that unless we get this funding under control, this debt, this deficit, the government will have a more serious problem with more people out of work, not less people out of work.

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on this my first opportunity to address the House let me congratulate you on your appointment and your colleagues on theirs as well.

It is an honour to be here today in the House representing the great riding of Parry South-Muskoka and the thousands of people who call the communities in my riding home. I would also like to thank all those constituents for the trust they have shown in me by electing me their member of Parliament.

My area includes the Muskoka Lakes, Georgian Bay, and is the gateway to Algonquin Park. It is where north meets south in Ontario and where people from all over come to enjoy nature at and life at their very best.

It is also the riding which, until October 25 of this past year, was represented by the grand old man of the House, Stan Darling. Although we are from different parties I wish to thank Stan publicly and on behalf of the constituents of Parry Sound-Muskoka for his 21 years of service to the House and 50 years of public life. Stan was the true constituency member, home every weekend attending every event and always willing to help a constituent no matter how small or how large the problem was.

Those who sat in the House prior to 1993 know of Stan's tireless work on the acid rain treaty which will allow my generation and my children's generation the opportunity to continue to enjoy the beauty Parry Sound-Muskoka. Between Stan and his predecessor, Gordon Aiken, the Conservatives represented my riding since Bucko MacDonald, a former Toronto Maple Leaf and a good Liberal, who won it 40 years ago in 1953.

If Bucko, who unfortunately passed away three years ago, was able to intervene from above to end the 40-year drought for the Liberal team in Parry Sound-Muskoka, he will use his influence to end the slightly shorter drought for his other team and 1994 will be the year that the Toronto Maple Leafs win the Stanley Cup.

I cannot let this moment pass without taking the opportunity to thank my wife, Danielle, and my children, Christopher, Peter and Lisa, for the support they have shown me during the past campaign and the personal sacrifices they are making to allow me to serve my constituents as a member of Parliament. In this vein it is appropriate to recognize the sacrifices being made by the families of all members of the House. I salute each of them.

We are here today to debate the government's throne speech, to review and analyse the path my government intends to pursue during the first session of the 35th Parliament. Our program can

be best summed up by one very simple phrase: a belief in the individual Canadian.

Our government intends to invest in young people through an apprenticeship program and the Canadian Youth Services Corps.

Our government intends to invest in small business people by providing them with the capital they need to grow and by lifting the burden of unnecessary regulations and unfair taxation.

Our government intends to invest in the unemployed by giving them an opportunity to work today through the infrastructure program and by creating an environment that will ensure job creation for the long term.

Our government intends to invest in the less fortunate in our society by reforming our social safety net so that it gives people a hand up instead of a hand out and provides for them the training necessary to become productive members of our society.

The government intends to invest in women and young children by passing new legislation that will strengthen the ban on pornography and stop violence against women and children and by reforming the Young Offenders Act to establish a connection between inappropriate behaviour and inevitable consequences.

More than just an investment in people, the Liberal government intends to pursue a balanced approach to government. We are not the slaves of any particular ideology. We are not wed to the doctrine of social control by the left or unfettered capitalism by the right.

We do not seek to end this country by tearing from it the province of Quebec. We will not push that province and its people form this country through indifference or misunderstanding of the legitimate aspirations of the French Canadian culture. We intend as a government to pursue this balanced approach as we deal with the economic challenges facing Canada.

We understand as does every business person in this country that any income statement has two sides: expenses and revenue. If we were to concentrate on simply cutting expenses without attempting to enhance revenue through job creation, we would surely fail in our attempt to balance the budget.

We will cut costs and start to relieve the Canadian middle class of its enormous tax burden with a clear understanding the more taxpayers that exist and the more people who are working the less burden each one of us will have to bear.

I am particularly pleased that our throne speech has promised to bring integrity back to government. We have committed ourselves to several measures that will see this happen. We will proceed quickly with rule changes that allow individual members of Parliament a greater role in the drafting of legislation.

We will provide more power to House of Commons committees and actively and continuously debate important issues of the day in the House. We will appoint an ethics counsellor to control the lobbyists and others who seek to wield unjust and undue power.

The program that my government has detailed is not only of national concern. It is of great importance in my riding of Parry Sound-Muskoka. I represent an area in which unemployment exceeds 15 per cent, and that does not account for the people working part time who would prefer full-time work or simply the people who have given up altogether.

In some communities in my riding we face upwards of one in four people who want to work but who are unable to work. It was the demand to have this situation reversed, to put the people of Parry Sound-Muskoka back to work, that led my electors to choose a Liberal to represent them in the 35th Parliament.

The backbone of the local economy of Parry Sound-Muskoka is tourism. One in every two existing jobs relates either directly or indirectly to that industry. Every 1 per cent increase in tourism translates into $1.9 million of direct economic benefit and 39 person years of employment. The thousands of people who travel every year to enjoy our lakes and waterways, to be dazzled by the fall colours, or to try the snowmobile trails in winter are the mainstay and economic lifeblood of my riding.

Our government pledge to put Canadians back to work and to reform our tax system will add new vigour to tourism. I am committed to work with all people within my riding to formulate appropriate initiatives which will concentrate on creating a four season tourism economy.

We will work toward the development of an appropriate marketing strategy which not only will reach out to attract visitors from across Canada, but which will work within initiatives of the federal government to bring back to our area the American tourists and to reach out to new markets in Europe and the Far East. I will work hard to provide financial assistance to our tourist operators and to supplement our natural attractions with new tourism infrastructure.

If tourism is the engine that drives our economy, it is the small business person who is the backbone of it. Over 90 per cent of all jobs in Parry Sound-Muskoka are provided by the small business sector. Men and women every day risk their family fortune, their financial security and in many cases all they have are the foundations upon which our economic renewal will be built.

I have spent my professional career working with and helping the small business sector. I have seen the person who has played by the rules, worked hard every day, pushed themselves to the limit and has lost it all through no fault of their own. I have seen the pain and the devastation that record business bankruptcies have caused. Our government's policies and programs will

ensure that this is no longer the case and that that terrible trend will be reversed.

The small business sector of Canada needs and deserves our support. This government is committed to finding new ways to provide capital to our beleaguered business people. As a former banker I am doubly determined to work hard to find ways for government and the banking industry to work together and ensure that loans are available to small business people, to ensure that deserving Canadians are not denied credit solely because they operate in a rural area and are not denied credit because they work in an industry not looked upon favourably by the gnomes of Bay Street.

I will work with my constituents and with my government to reduce the bureaucracy which surrounds and strangles the small business person. I do not want to see good job creation projects die on the altar of bureaucratic red tape.

As part of a Liberal government I will work for the reform of our tax structure and work to stop the practice of using the small business sector as little more than tax collectors. We need to collect revenue in a manner which does not discourage consumption and drive to the United States the tourism dollars which are desperately needed in Parry Sound-Muskoka.

As important as tourism is to my area, as important as the retail trade which supports it is, and as important as the private service sector which maintains it is, we need more. We will always depend on tourism as our major industry. However we must work in Parry Sound-Muskoka for an economically balanced economy.

I have worked for many years actively pursuing economic development both as a business representative in my role with the chamber of commerce and as a member and active participant in the municipal economic development process.

I have pledged to work with the small business sector and individuals to bring them together with government to build a diversified economic base. We will create a climate within which new small business will be created in this country and, most important for me, in Parry Sound-Muskoka.

We will use our quality of life, our proximity to major markets, our superior transportation infrastructure and the innovativeness and hard-working nature of our people to attract new industry and new manufacturers on which economic renewal can be based.

The Minister of Human Resources Development has just pledged in this House to introduce and pursue innovative labour adjustment activities. We will work to create an environment within which those who have been excluded from the work force can learn new skills and be prepared to fill the jobs that economic development and diversification will create.

The residents of my riding and indeed the people of Canada find themselves at a crossroads. We have great challenges ahead of us which will demand our collective energy, knowledge and determination if we are to overcome them.

As Canadians we have a choice. On the one hand, we can take the easy road. We can believe that the problems we face are beyond our abilities to solve. We can look for simple solutions and feel disappointed when they do not work. We can ask for sacrifices from others and reject that we too must make sacrifices. We can blame our difficulties on the actions of others and accept no responsibility for what we may have done to contribute to our condition. On the other hand, we can take the other route, one which recognizes that we can do better, that we can have an effect on problems, that we are responsible for our actions and that sacrifices will come from each of us, not simply from some other group.

Our government has clearly demonstrated by its speech from the throne that it chooses the second option. We will not shirk our responsibilities. We will provide leadership to Canadians. We will be innovative, learning from the past but not fearing the future. We will be generous and most of all, we will care about the individual Canadian first and foremost.

Canada is a great country. Canadians are great people. We can and will do better than we have in the past. With the help of all Canadians and all of the members of this House, we will build a future of hope and prosperity for ourselves and for our children.

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate the member for Parry Sound-Muskoka. It is indeed one of the most beautiful and picturesque areas of the country. I appreciate his comments, as do other members of the House I am sure, concerning the sacrifice that all of our families endure with our being here. It was very kind of him to mention that and make that consideration.

As a small businessman it was interesting to hear the extent of his concern with small business. From his background as a banker he would certainly have an interesting perspective, one that would be quite different to many people who were actual doers. It is similar to the person who knows how to drive but cannot get a driver's licence.

My question to the hon. member from Parry Sound is the following. In the Liberal red book there is a statement to the effect that the Liberal government would adjust personal guarantees to 25 per cent. I believe it reads that it would guarantee the first 25 per cent.

Has the member considered, particularly with his experience as a banker, if the government were to assume the guarantee on the first 25 per cent, what impact would that have on the operation of that business? Would it not be advisable, if the government were going to guarantee anything, which of course is debatable, to guarantee the last 25 per cent and not the first 25 per cent? If it is my money and my constituents' money that is being used as a guarantee I would like to have the small businessman laying awake at nights trying to figure out how to pay back that money.

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Small Businesses Loans Act which is presently in force does mandate that the banks are only going to take a 20 per cent guarantee. However, it does not work quite in the way the member has pointed out.

If there should be a default on the loan, the way the act works is that the bank will attempt to collect all security in advance of the government guarantee. In other words, all security must be exhausted before the government will honour its portion of the guarantee. Therefore, in reality the government comes to the table last and the small businessman loses first.

[Jean Landry, Bloc, Lotbinière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this is the first time that I address this House. I am new, but I too will learn during my mandate, my four years. I wish to congratulate you on your new position.

My question for the member is what exactly will you do to restore permanent jobs and not part-time jobs such as those that come from your program and to restore the confidence of Quebecers and Canadians? Look at aid for small business. They need money, and funds are being cut, so I would like to have an answer, Mr. Speaker.

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is important when looking at the government's job creation program that we remember there are two components to it. I always hear from members opposite in this House the complaint that it is an infrastructure program, it is short term and that it will be gone in a year or in two years, but that is not the reality of it.

When one invests in infrastructure one creates an environment where long term jobs can be created. In my riding if we put infrastructure into an industrial park and we put sewers there and we bring water to that park and as a result of that we are able to attract new industry to my riding then the infrastructure program has not just created short term jobs during the construction but it has created long term jobs as new business is able to move in.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I would first like to take this opportunity, both as a friend and as a colleague, to congratulate you on your election as the Deputy Speaker. As you know, we go back many years. My wife and I had the privilege of working on your first campaign when we were both members of another party, but that is another story.

I would also like to congratulate the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka for his first speech in the House. I had the privilege of doing that this morning.

As I said this morning, the Liberal red book was rather long on rhetoric and rather short on specifics. While we have heard him speak about the needs of his particular riding, the needs of this country are even greater.

That is why I think that in the throne speech the question to the honourable member is this: What is he, as a member of the government, and his government going to do to ensure that not only his riding but this whole country comes to terms with job creation from coast to coast? We all know that the $6 billion infrastructures will not do the job.

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, concerning the last question, as I mentioned, it is inappropriate to look at our job creation program and just take one aspect of it, the infrastructure program. That is the stimulus, that is the start, but it contains many more things.

If we are able to, and we will as a government, get more capital into the hands of small business people, we will in fact create long term jobs. When we reform the tax system in this country we will be creating long term jobs. When we are able to cut through the red tape that small businessmen and women have to face every day then we will be creating long term jobs. When we work with leading edge technological companies we will create long term jobs. The red book is filled from one end to the other with specific details on how we will create long term jobs.

[The Deputy Speaker]

We are going to try to use up the clock till a quarter to six. The two of you will have roughly three minutes left. The member for Fraser Valley East.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I was interested to hear the member's description of his riding. I think everyone in the House so far has described their riding as the most beautiful riding in all of Canada. Maybe I will do that next week.

Congratulations to the member on his maiden speech. I was also interested in his comments about 90 per cent of businesses being created by small business, which of course is not a government intervention but a small business initiative.

I am also interested in his comments about the sacrifices that he is calling on all facets of the economy to make. I was just wondering what sacrifices exactly he is expecting from small businesses to finance this program.

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the small business person in my riding does in fact create 90 per cent of the new jobs. They had to make many sacrifices as they worked to create those jobs. Each one of us in this House, each Canadian in this country, each constituents' group, each special interest group is going to have to come together. They are going to have to realize that if we are going to be successful in reinvigorating the Canadian economy, if we are going to create jobs in this country, if we are going to fix the major problems that we face in this country, we are going to have to do it together.

Each one of us, as each issue comes up in this House, and each person out there in the country, as each issue comes out, is going to ask themselves not just what will it do to hurt them but ask themselves: "What can I do to help the country deal with these problems". When we can have that kind of attitude in this House and in the country, we will be successful with the economic renewal that we need. We will be successful in creating new jobs and Canadians will go back to the prosperity that they rightfully deserve.

[The Deputy Speaker]

It being 5.45 p.m., it is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 55 to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the amendment to the amendment.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment to the amendment?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Deputy Speaker]

All those in favour of the amendment to the amendment will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Deputy Speaker]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Deputy Speaker]

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

[The Deputy Speaker]

Call in the members.

And the bells having rung.