House of Commons Hansard #9 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was riding.

Topics

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Reform

Lee Morrison Reform Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK

To my knowledge, all of us, but you are talking-

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Liberal

John Harvard Liberal Winnipeg—St. James, MB

I just want you to tell the truth. You stand there so sanctimonious-

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

I know there is a tremendous amount of interest in today's debate and some strong views on either side, but I would remind hon. members to direct their comments to the Chair, please.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Reform

Lee Morrison Reform Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK

Mr. Speaker, I believe that it is the custom of this House that one does not accuse other members of not telling the truth. Is this not correct?

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Liberal

John Harvard Liberal Winnipeg—St. James, MB

I said tell the truth.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Yes, there is a tradition in this House that we regard each other of course as we are, honourable members.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Reform

Lee Morrison Reform Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member would wish to come over and audit my books he will find that I have indeed taken this cut-

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Liberal

John Harvard Liberal Winnipeg—St. James, MB

I did not suggest you did not.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Reform

Lee Morrison Reform Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK

As to any other members of my caucus, I have not audited their books, but to my knowledge they have taken it. That is all I know. If the hon. member has other knowledge, then I think he should present it to me.

Was there a question attached to this or was it just a heckle? Apparently there was no question.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

The question or the comment came originally from the member for Hamilton-Wentworth.

There are a few minutes left in questions and comments. The hon. member for Durham.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Liberal

Alex Shepherd Liberal Durham, ON

Mr. Speaker, I liked the presentation from the member for Swift Current-Maple Creek-Assiniboia.

I note he mentions in his dissertation the debt structure of Canada. I note the provincial debt of Saskatchewan is one of the highest per capita in this country. It seems to me that did not occur with the auspices of any Liberal support.

Also, I am very concerned about the aspect of cutting expenditures. I think everyone in this country wants to do that. I note one of the biggest expenditures that we have currently is subsidies to grain farmers. I would like to know what the hon. member's orientation is to that.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Reform

Lee Morrison Reform Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his comments. The Reform Party is on record as wanting to phase out all subsidies to all sectors of the economy, including grain farmers, but only in a step-by-step program with everyone else. There is hardly anyone in this country, probably including me, if I look back far enough, who is not getting a subsidy. I would suspect almost every member in this House if they have private business interests is getting a subsidy of some sort. We are opposed to that.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

An hon. member

Speak for yourself.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Reform

Lee Morrison Reform Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK

Check it out carefully, sir. I think the hon. member will find that we are all on the take, not because we want to be but because this is the way the system has grown. This monster has been created.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

George S. Rideout Liberal Moncton, NB

Ask him to withdraw. That is shameful.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

I regret I did not hear the comments of the member for Swift Current-Maple Creek-Assiniboia. I would ask for the co-operation of all members that if they want to seek the floor they do so on a point of order.

The time has expired.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Liberal

Dianne Brushett Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured that I have been asked today to rise in this House on behalf of my constituents in Cumberland-Colchester.

The roots of my constituents run deep into the history of Canada. Cumberland-Colchester contributed two Fathers of Confederation, Sir Charles Tupper and Sir Adams George Archibald. Sir Charles served Canada briefly as Prime Minister. My home town of Truro is the birthplace of that outstanding Canadian, Robert Stanfield.

Cumberland-Colchester contributed many of its young men in service and in many cases ultimate sacrifice for Canada in two world wars. Many veterans of the North Nova Highlanders were in that historic assault that began the liberation of western Europe a half century ago. Fort Cumberland, the first historic site one sees as one crosses into Nova Scotia from New Brunswick, has witnessed clashed between many nations. The early struggles were between the Micmac nation and British settlers. The treaty of 1752 finally brought peace and one of Nova Scotia's principal Micmac communities, Millbrook, is adjacent to Truro today.

In 1755, the Acadians, Cumberland-Colchester's first European settlers were forced into exile because they would not swear allegiance to the British crown during the seven years war with France. Some of the Acadian families through great diligence ultimately did return. Many of their present day descendants farm along the Minas basin in the communities of Joggins and Minudie. The famous dykes the 17th century ancestors built to reclaim salt marshland are still in place today, protecting farmland from incursions of the sea. Just over 20 years later, we had more civil unrest at Fort Cumberland when Colonel Jonathan Eddy of the continental army tried to foment an uprising on behalf of the American revolution among the New England settlers who replaced the French Acadians. If Eddy had succeeded, and he might very well have, Canada today would not have an Atlantic coast.

As well, Cumberland-Colchester has many black citizens with a long, rich history. Some of their ancestors helped build the Halifax Citadel as freed men from Jamaica. History knows them as the Maroons. Others came back later as black loyalists and still others came on the underground railway as fugitive slaves. Since Truro became an important railway junction many blacks settled in the town as railway workers.

As I travel through my constituency from the coastal communities of Pugwash, Wallace, Parrsboro and Advocate to the larger centres of Springhill, Truro and Amherst, the land is as diverse as its people. Its rich history is exhibited in the culture of its people and the beauty of the landscape. It is this land and these people that I love so much. I have a heartfelt thank you for each one of them for the honour and privilege of representing them in this magnificent House.

For many of my constituents the last 10 years have been the cruelest decade. They have witnessed a continuous erosion of government services that are basic needs to our rural lifestyle. Small communities across Canada, battered by economic

hardships, are struggling to retain their post offices, banks, rail lines and bus services.

We must remember that when our rural communities fail, these people end up in cities, many of them in homeless, pathetic situations. All statistics indicate that in the long run it is less expensive to live in rural communities. What this government needs to offer is a certain minimum level of service to ensure the survival of rural Canada.

For rural Canadians the community post office is probably the only federal presence in their lives. If you remove their local post office, as Canada Post has done in over 1,400 small communities, including seven in my riding, you virtually say to them: "You do not matter".

I was struck by the Governor General's remarks last week that public trust in the institution of government is essential to the attainment of the government's agenda for Canada. I am pleased that my government is committed to maintaining rural postal service as I have fought to save the Truro post office and restore dignity to rural Canada.

My constituents in Cumberland-Colchester are very sensitive to anything that threatens their standards and values. Until very recently they lived in communities where doors could be left unlocked and where vandalism, theft, murder, assault and robbery were very rare. Unfortunately that is no longer true.

Their concern about crime centres on the Young Offenders Act. Many believe that the Young Offenders Act is not working, that it does not deter nor does it reform young criminals. Above all else, they believe the Young Offenders Act must be changed to give the victims real justice.

In 1989 the family and friends of Andrea Rogers founded the Truro branch of Citizens United for Safety and Justice. Their main objective is to ensure that the safety of children and all innocent citizens of Canada takes precedence over the rights of criminals.

A hit and run driver in North Vancouver killed Andrea Rogers. Subsequently caught and convicted the driver, a young offender, received a suspended sentence of 100 hours of community service, one year's probation and lost his drivers licence for two years.

I would like to thank the parents of Andrea Rogers, Citizens United for Safety and Justice and the Truro branch of the Canadian Federation of University Women for their recommended changes to the Young Offenders Act. I wish to assure them that I have presented their recommendations to the justice minister and will defend them vigorously in this House.

I want us to meet our campaign commitment to bring meaningful gun control to Canada. We must closely consult with the provinces and respected shooting sporting groups so that we can disarm the criminal and the irresponsible without undue hardship on responsible, law-abiding gun owners.

I therefore welcome the government's stated intent to restore the Law Reform Commission. I trust it will also have the promised mandate to consult widely with the public on sentencing, parole and other criminal justice issues.

We Atlantic Canadians are perceived to have a deep-seated economic problems despite the fact that we have thousands of successful small businesses as well as some outstanding corporate successes such as the Sobeys, McCains and Irvings. Our problem is not a lack of enterprise, it is the lack of a sufficient capital pool.

Ironically, Atlantic Canadians do generate considerable capital through their savings, pension contributions and investments. Unfortunately this capital flows into funds that leave the region. That is why I welcome the government's pledge to work with our national financial institutions to improve access to capital for small business and long term job creation.

I applaud the throne speech proposal to foster technology partnerships between our universities, research institutions and the private sector. In my riding the Nova Scotia Agricultural College has been doing this for some time. Not only has this college provided expertise to Atlantic Canada farmers and food processors, but to developing countries and the eastern European nations as well.

The Nova Scotia Agricultural College bachelor of science degree in agriculture is widely respected and now the college proposes a new bachelor of science degree in aquaculture. I applaud the staff for the foresight in recognizing that as the marine fishery continues its decline, there is a considerable opportunity for Atlantic Canada to get its share of the world's aquaculture production, which by the year 2000 is expected to provide 25 per cent of the total fish harvest. I also salute the staff for their vision in planning new educational opportunities for our young people in a growing field with potential for real jobs. The aquaculture project is very much in the spirit of our government's commitment to promoting training and new technologies that I would like to publicly support it and ask my colleagues to do the same.

Cumberland-Colchester farmers accept with good grace the fact that the new GATT rules mean they will have to eventually alter the marketing structures under which they now operate. The north shore lobstermen know they must increase the carapace size of their catch to maintain a sustainable lobster fishery. Woodlot owners know that they cannot realistically hope to have

a new federal-provincial forestry development agreement similar to the one they have now.

Coming from a business background I always equate government to business. Just as business must stay close to its customers, so must this government stay close to the people we serve. Just as a business must have high quality employees, so must this government have members of integrity. And just as employee trust is essential to a company's success, so is the electorate's trust vital to our government's success.

This is a very exciting time to be a member of Parliament. I have the highest praise for our Prime Minister for scheduling all-party debates on major issues before and not after a decision is made. We saw this open process this week when debate was held on cruise missile testing and peacekeeping, and I look forward to the pre-budget debates next week. If we stick to the philosophy whereby economic policy must sustain environmental policy, must sustain social policy, then with continued open debate and responsible public spending we will succeed, we will win the trust of the electorate.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Bloc

René Canuel Bloc Matapédia—Matane, QC

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my hon. colleague for speaking about rural Canada. She seems to be very fond of small communities. She also spoke about post offices and it is true that the post office in a small community is a vitally important institution.

In my riding we have the Ralliement populaire . Before that we had Opération dignité the goal of which was to save small communities, because if small communities are allowed to die out, surely the same fate will befall small towns.

Therefore I share my hon. colleague's sentiments and she can rest assured that she has an ally in me.

Now, regarding the question of post offices, one of my constituents called to tell me that new postal outlets were still opening up. And while there have been no further post office closures per se since a moratorium has or will be imposed, I would like the hon. member to tell me if in fact it is true that new postal outlets are opening up?

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Dianne Brushett Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS

I thank the member for his question. Across the country people are concerned with closures of rural post offices. It was a mandate of our government to cease closing post offices. As he will recall, shortly after this government was elected the Minister of Public Works stopped the closing of post offices. A freeze was put on the closure of post offices. It is our mandate to ensure that freeze stays on post office closures until we have a complete look at restoring rural services across Canada.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Reform

Jack Ramsay Reform Crowfoot, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would like as well to congratulate the hon. member for what I thought was a wonderful speech. She can rest assured that she has much support for what she said in the Reform Party caucus.

It goes to show what I have believed for some time. It is that the reform that is sweeping across the country certainly goes beyond the borders of the Reform Party of Canada.

I would like to ask the hon. member if she would be prepared to elaborate her thoughts, time permitting, on two areas that she touched on, the Young Offenders Act and the gun control bill. Would she be willing to share with us her thoughts about the amendment to these two bills?

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Dianne Brushett Liberal Cumberland—Colchester, NS

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for his thoughts that rural post offices transcend party lines and that all parties have the common thread in this House for us to seek to serve the people of Canada in rural areas because they are the backbone of this country.

Thinking of the Young Offenders Act and gun control, many constituents in my riding have brought forward their own thoughts. I spoke of the young teenage girl whose parents live in my riding. She was going to university in Vancouver and was struck and killed by a young offender. As I said in my speech there were very small reprisals for that offence.

They have brought forward numerous recommendations on the Young Offenders Act and on gun control and I believe without going into great depth that I am presenting them to the Minister of Justice and I will debate them in this House when those debates come forward. The whole purpose is to assure justice and some consideration for the victim and to ensure that we rehabilitate the young offender and not incarcerate him for a long period for a life of crime. He must receive proper punishment to suit the crime.

In terms of gun control we would like to not have a blanket obliteration of the use of firearms but let us be more severe in punishing those who offend rather than renege on all firearms across the board.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Bloc

Pierrette Venne Bloc Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately the throne speech was silent on two particularly important issues. But, before addressing these issues, I would like to thank my constituents for their majority support of the sovereignty option in Quebec.

Saint-Hubert voters have unequivocally sanctioned my decision to join the Bloc Quebecois on August 12, 1991. My decision was endorsed by 56,6 percent of the electorate, or 15,000 more votes than my Liberal opponent.

The riding of Saint-Hubert is a high-tech aeronautical engineering and airport centre. Located on Montreal's south shore with an 84 per cent francophone majority, it includes the cities of Saint-Hubert and Lemoyne and part of Longueuil, as well as the city of Greenfield Park with its large and dynamic anglophone population.

I want to speak for every one of my constituents in my response to the throne speech. This speech is a universal disappointment because the economic solutions it proposes are unsatisfactory and because it lacks a clear message for the unemployed and for low-income Canadians.

In his speech, the Opposition leader denounced the lack of vision of this government, which is unable to give Canadians hope for a real economic recovery.

Others before me have already listed the wide gaps left in the throne speech with regard to taxation, public finances and the economy.

I want to deal with two questions raised by the national conscience, on which this government does not seem to have a position. Although we are concerned about the economy, social issues are equally pressing.

While Canadians and Quebecers are impatiently calling for vigorous state intervention on crime, the throne speech bitterly disappoints us by not addressing the urgent need to control firearms. Existing legislation, even laws that were recently improved, must be amended in order to meet objectives.

The throne speech was full of good intentions. However, where are the promised positive, concrete measures aimed at increasing public safety and crime prevention, as mentioned in the throne speech? Why have they not been identified?

The number of family incidents involving shotguns, pistols and revolvers is increasing. Women continue to be the most common victims of deadly assaults with prohibited or restricted weapons. Handguns are still the preferred weapon for committing suicide. There is a general consensus that the amendments brought about by Bill C-17 on gun control were a step in the right direction, but Canadians and Quebecers are telling us that we have not gone far enough.

Despite the new regulations calling for improved screening with respect to firearms acquisition, it is disturbing that civilians are still allowed to own semi-automatic weapons. Most of the firearms in circulation are not registered and all a person needs to acquire a pistol or a revolver is a certificate which can be obtained free of charge.

An Angus Reid poll conducted on September 15 and 16, 1993, revealed broad public support for the registration of all firearms. Such a move is supported by 86 per cent of all Canadians, including 91 per cent of all Quebecers, while 70 per cent of Canadians, and 79 per cent of Quebecers want an outright ban on assault weapons and handguns.

Where in the throne speech can we find any indication of a willingness on the part of the government to address these urgent expectations and to ease the concerns of citizens across the country? As we all know, the legislative priorities of this House are economic in nature given the serious hardships experienced by Canadians and Quebecers. However, fighting crime should top the list of the government's major concerns, particularly because of the social tensions and personal dramas stemming from the state of the economy.

Even with the recent amendments to the Criminal Code, it is still a simple matter to acquire a firearm and the cost involved is merely symbolic. This House should take courageous steps, setting aside partisanship, and give Canadians the protection they want. It is estimated that more than six million handguns are currently in circulation in Canada. This is indeed a frightening statistic.

What we need is a universal registration system for all types of firearms. The sale, trade and resale of weapons needs to be regulated. A genuine policy should be formulated for training dealers, who should be required to pay licensing fees to finance control programs. Restrictions should be placed on the acquisition of restricted weapons and users of these types of weapons should be required to obtain an annual permit.

A permit should also be required to purchase ammunition. All citizens should have the opportunity to oppose all applications for permits to acquire or carry weapons. A notice of application should be published in advance in the newspapers, as happens in the case of several kinds of licenses, including liquor licenses.

All automatic and semi-automatic weapons should be banned. Strict minimum sentences should be imposed on persons convicted of possession of illegal weapons. Local registrars should be given mandatory investigative powers. Finally, and most importantly, the cost of permits should be increased to give the provinces more money with which to enforce these controls, because without them, even the best of laws will remain nothing more than wishful thinking.

Had all of these measures been in place, I am confident that the Auditor General would not have made the comments he did in his report about weapons smuggling.

Our American neighbours are now realizing with dismay that the law of the Old West has produced an armed, defensive and criminalized society instead of protecting honest citizens.

It can never be said often enough: in two years, firearms have killed more Americans than the entire Vietnam war.

In the U.S., the dramatic figure of 24,000 murders committed with handguns every year has impelled the Clinton administration to pass new regulations to control the sale of weapons. In Canada, murders and deaths due to firearms have not reached the magnitude of the American slaughter, but every year 1,400 Canadians are shot dead.

Even with its flagrant flaws, our firearm control system, as opposed to the free movement of weapons American-style, makes all the difference when we measure the quality of life in Canadian cities and helps more than other factors to strengthen the fabric of Canadian life. And even if a single life is spared because an irresponsible or desperate violent individual was unable to acquire a firearm, we will have achieved our goal. As additional evidence, a July 1992 report by the Research and Statistics Directorate of the Department of Justice establishes a close correlation between the number of firearms in circulation and the suicide rate per 100,000 Canadians.

According to the authors of the report, since the adoption, in 1977, of legislative and regulatory measures to control firearms, the suicide rate has dropped substantially. We have here numerous briefs and reports establishing a direct link between owning a firearm and using it for illegal purposes resulting in loss of life. The Department of Justice has all these reports.

We must now go beyond these reports unanimously repeating the need for tighter controls. We must legislate to protect democracy. We must protect our democracy, which is not based on the force of arms but on the people's will allowing us to assemble in this House to express our differences in a civilized fashion.

The report published, a few days after the election, by the Baird Royal Commission unexpectedly set up by the previous government raised another social issue that is less current but equally relevant. How can this government totally ignore the widespread public criticism levelled at the Baird Report tabled by the Royal Commission on New Reproductive Technologies?

We have all seen that this Commission's mandate only led to a report that was outdated the day it came out and whose conclusions were widely criticized. We would have liked the government to tell us whether budget restrictions are still at the top of its priorities, to give us a policy statement on the futility of allocating public funds to such royal commissions.

The throne speech announces prenatal nutrition programs for low-income pregnant women. But did we hear any reference to a global policy on fertility that could be based on or move away from the report's conclusions?

On the positive side, this Commission, which tabled its report two years late, drew our attention to recent developments and warned us against abuse by big business and dangerous practices calling for immediate action. Its report also proposes measures encroaching on provincial jurisdiction in the health-care sector. The establishment of a federal agency to deal with the whole issue of regulating reproductive technologies would be akin to the proverbial fly in the constitutional ointment.

We think that this flawed report, produced at a prohibitive cost of $28 million in these tough economic times, is already outdated by new scientific facts.

This government has not yet denounced the Baird Report. There is every reason to believe that it will act like previous governments, preferring to leave it to a royal commission to deal with urgent questions raised by new social situations.

Infertility is a big issue for many women and the couples it affects. It is lived differently from one province to another and from one social milieu to another. It is a current issue which the industry and its powerful lobbies are trying to use for purposes completely unrelated to people's legitimate aspiration to reproduce in dignity and with respect for the person.

We believe that the government must act quickly to avoid legislating later when faced with a fait accompli . On these issues and all other social, economic and political concerns of Canadians, we were waiting for signs, messages and evidence of a real intention to act from the government. But with all due respect for all members of this Parliament, I would ask you to note my deep dissatisfaction with the governing party's abdication of its social responsibilities, its premature fatigue when faced with the government financial crisis and its obvious lack of perspective on all the expectations of Canadians and the regions.

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Reform

Art Hanger Reform Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. member about her firearms registration proposal. While I agree there must be changes to the gun legislation, does the member realize what she is asking the government to do? Does the hon. member not realize that such actions have been taken by other jurisdictions? I refer to New Zealand where it resulted in a total breakdown of the registration process costing the taxpayers millions of dollars and a logistical problem that was insurmountable.

Would the member please advise this House which study she is referring to that would back up her position to register all firearms. Realistically that is an impossible task. In effect would it not violate the right to own property?

Speech From The ThroneGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Bloc

Pierrette Venne Bloc Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Speaker, I think that you yourself were on the firearms committee when we discussed firearms registration. The gun lobby kept coming and saying that we could not register all firearms because it would cost too much. However, I have firearms at home, so I can tell you how I bought them. With my firearms acquisition certificate, of course, I went to a gun dealer to buy the weapon I wanted. He immediately entered my firearms acquisition certificate number in a register, as well as a description of the weapon. Why could he not then simply record it on an electronic network connecting all of Canada, or just a provincial system, because it could also be done provincially, or, if you prefer, a duplicate could be made and sent to a central firearms registry. It is not expensive. The argument that an electronic system would cost too much does not stand up; it is completely wrong to begin with.