Debates of Nov. 21st, 1994

Immigration Refugee Board

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, for weeks on end that party has lectured the House about quasi-judicial boards. Now the member suggests that I call a judge and give that judge direction. I will do no such thing. The Minister of Justice has the responsibility. He is a responsible minister.

National Defence

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

Last Friday, the defence minister touted the merits of Unisys, which he said was the best company in the world for providing computer services for Canadian frigates. From 1992 to July 1994, defence department officials in charge of this issue denounced Unisys's incompetence and inability to meet the terms of the contract and deplored the waste of public funds.

How does the minister explain his refusal to follow up on the recommendations of his officials who have repeatedly denounced the waste of public funds in the Unisys matter?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know how many times one has to repeat answers to get through to the hon. members opposite. This was essentially the same question that was asked by one of his colleagues on Friday. I gave the answer.

If the hon. member still does not accept the answer then I would invite him to attend a briefing to be given by national defence officials. We will lay out all the terms of the contract, how it was renegotiated, how the concerns were met. I am sure the hon. member then will not continue to do what his colleagues started on Friday, denigrate a very worthy company based in Montreal which happens to be in his province, Quebec.

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like the defence minister to understand that whether it is a Quebec company or not, if public funds are wasted, we will denounce it. If officials have told the department that the company was not fulfilling its mandate, the department ought to let the company know.

Are we to understand that in order to hide this waste of public funds, his department has decided to remove the officers responsible for monitoring contract compliance?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the department did not put aside any officials. There was a problem with the development of the specific combat training systems. I explained that on Friday. It is not unusual when you are dealing with high tech, highly specified equipment. The terms of the contract were renegotiated and the first tests are under way right now with the Canadian patrol frigate and I do not see where any problem remains.

I would invite the hon. member to be briefed by my officials and after that briefing I would challenge him whether he will ask these same questions in the House because I think he will be entirely satisfied.

Justice

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, on Friday the Deputy Prime Minister was quoted as saying "when you make policy as a government you can't make laws based on exceptions". That is good advice. Perhaps she could have shared it with the Minister of Justice.

The Criminal Code in this country states that people should be punished for rape, physical assault and battery except, it appears, when the criminal has had too much to drink or is too stoned to realize what he is doing.

The justice minister does say he is concerned. Is he concerned enough to end the drunk defence now?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I am concerned enough and this government is concerned enough to end it as soon as we can responsibly prepare a provision for the Criminal Code that will withstand an attack under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and that will achieve the objective we all have in mind which is accountability in the criminal law.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, where there is a will there is a way and this government, with all the resources at its fingertips, could have that thing ready by week's end.

The minister quickly put an end to the possibility of a cultural defence when he thought perhaps it could hurt his political career. The minister could close this loophole today if he wanted to.

[The Speaker]

I invite the hon. member to get to her question.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

He would have support across this House. Will the minister put an end to the drunken defence today? Justice should be blind, not blind drunk.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, since the publication of the consultation document 10 days ago I have heard from among others women's groups from across the country that are very anxious to speak with me in detail about the proposals because they are very concerned about the suggestion of a criminal intoxication offence.

I want to hear them out. I want to listen to the provincial attorneys general who will enforce this law. I want to discuss this with the people who participate with the federal government in the administration of the justice system and I want to prepare a law that is going to get it right. That is my opinion.

Health

[Stan Dromisky, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Atikokan, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

Natives in northwestern Ontario are experiencing a fourfold increase in heart attacks and kidney disease compared with average Canadians. These medical crises have a preventable cause, that is type II diabetes.

What are the government's plans for preventive measures which will reduce the negative effects of type II diabetes among First Nation populations?

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for that question because Health Canada has a great deal of concern about type II diabetes among aboriginal peoples as well as the complications of type II diabetes.

We have worked specifically in northern Ontario to deal with Sioux Lookout where there is a dietitian right now who works for the hospital and with the community. Regular sessions are held to meet with the people, to educate them with regard to their diet.

More generally, however, we are working with First Nations people to deal with prevention and treatment at the community level and the national level so that we can provide the kind of culturally sensitive prevention and care that is necessary.

Government Advertising

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. We just learned that the federal government is about to spend over half a million dollars on a series of television programs to be aired weekly to promote federal services, but only in Quebec.

The Director of Communications for the Department of Human Resources Development said that the project has nothing to do with the referendum, and she added: "We are not getting involved in politics".

If this is not a pre-referendum operation, will the Prime Minister tell us why these documentary films on federal services will only be aired in Quebec?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, over a year ago a communications firm approached a number of federal departments to suggest that with the major reorganization of departments going on it would be very helpful for Canadians to understand the range of services provided by integrated departments such as human resources, heritage and others.

As a result a series of information documentaries is being prepared that will be shown across Canada. It will be available to help Canadians understand the availability of services and how they can effectively use them, how they can make the best use of the resources we have. That is the whole purpose.

The program is being paid for out of a reallocation of existing communications money. No new money is being added. It has nothing to do with the referendum. It has something to do with good service to Canadians.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is for the Prime Minister. Are we to understand that this advertising campaign is in response to a Prime Minister's request that the communication services of each department submit promotional projects on Canadian unity?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to correct the comments of the hon. member.

As I said in my opening response, what happened is that last fall of 1993 an independent communications firm made a proposal that was originally directed toward my department as a way of providing proper information services for all Canadians right across Canada. We thought it was a good idea to work with other departments to provide a joint program. That program is now being implemented to ensure that all Canadians understand just what good services they receive from this government.

Unemployment Insurance

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, recently the Minister of Human Resources Development pointed an accusing finger at the automotive industry regarding misuse of the unemployment insurance system.

In actual fact the federal government lays off over 70,000 persons every year at a cost of $400 million to the program; that is more than five times the cost of the auto industry. Yet the minister is not shy about pointing an accusing finger and singling out the automobile industry for abusing the system.

Why is the minister singling out any specific sector of the economy and how does finger pointing at any specific sector improve the problem or help solve the problem?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, we are not pointing an accusing finger at anybody. We are simply tabling the facts. In the last 10 years the frequency of use of unemployment insurance has gone from about 13 per cent to 40 per cent.

I want to inform the hon. member that I had a very useful meeting this morning with representatives of the automobile industry and the unions in that industry. We agreed that it is something that we should jointly look at. We have agreed that we will collaborate and co-operate on sharing information. It shows that this government is interested in co-operating with people and working out solutions to our problems.

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of Canadians who are really distressed with what has happened to the unemployment insurance system in the country.

It is passing strange that someone earning $20,000 a year is subsidizing people who could make up to $40,000 a year through the unemployment insurance system which has really become income redistribution.

Will the minister ensure in the forthcoming program review that unemployment insurance is returned to its original mandate, that is to protect employees from transitional or temporary harm due to temporary job loss, and remove it from being a make work project or an income supplement project?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, certainly one of the major objectives is to have an unemployment insurance system that is both efficient and cost effective.

At the same time one of the most important ways of ensuring it is cost effective is to ensure that we use resources from that fund to help retrain and upgrade many workers who do need to face the adjustments that the work place poses, especially now when we are going through such massive changes.

I simply point out to the hon. member that we have presented a series of proposals as to how we can use the unemployment insurance system to turn it into an employment insurance system to give people a much better chance of having the opportunity to be employed.

It is really getting a job, holding a job and improving that job that is the primary purpose of our review.

Ontario

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

For obvious reasons, this House is often preoccupied with one of Canada's largest provinces, Quebec, but I would like to ask the Prime Minister a question about the province of Ontario today.

It concerns the fact that Ontario is increasingly being treated unfairly by the federal government with respect to the diminishing share of social assistance costs that the federal government is picking up. The federal share is now down to 29 per cent when in eight other provinces it is at 50 per cent.

We know why Quebec gets the attention but why has the bloc Ontario that is in his caucus not done anything about the way the federal government is treating Ontario the way it did under the Tories and the way it is now doing under the Liberals?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member would refer to the green paper that we tabled dealing with reform of the social system he would recognize that we put in that paper an objective to ensure a much fairer distribution of benefits throughout Canada.

I have had discussions with ministers of the Ontario government to say that the best way that they can ensure that Ontario does receive proper attention is to become a part of the process of review. That is what we want to do. If we could have the full collaboration of the Government of Ontario we could work out those formulas.

In the meantime I would say to the hon. member that he might want to direct the question that he has raised to his own leader who seems to be opposing the benefit it would bring, close to $3 billion worth of jobs to Ontario in developing the Candu reactor.

Student Assistance

[Marlene Cowling, Liberal, Dauphin—Swan River, MB]

Mr. Speaker, last spring the Minister of Human Resources Development introduced major reforms to expand and improve student assistance.

As part of these reforms, a new approach to addressing student needs was developed. However, as the minister knows, students are concerned that the new needs assessment approach was too harsh, that the contribution by parents was too high for many families and too much emphasis was placed on student income.

Will the minister take immediate action to address this growing concern?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, because of certain events the announcement we made last week concerning the improvement to the student loan program was somewhat overshadowed by an impromptu lunch I had in the front yard of Parliament Hill.

I would like to point out that the federal government has met with its provincial counterparts. We have come to an agreement that we will provide for a very different set of rules as applied to the existing student loan program which will allow part time income to be more broadly accepted, to allow parental income to be revised in a different way and to ensure there is much better flexibility.

I can report to you, Mr. Speaker, because I know you are very interested that it was very broadly and strongly endorsed by students' associations in this country.