Debates of May 5th, 1994

Bosnia

[Simon de Jong, NDP, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the children of Bosnia are the greatest victims of the daily carnage occurring in that part of the world. Thousands of children have been deprived of their childhood. They have seen their fathers murdered and their mothers raped. They have had their homes burned and all too often been uprooted as their village has been "ethnically cleansed".

The deliberate shelling of schools, hospitals and other non-military targets has killed and permanently disabled many children of Bosnia. All the children of Bosnia will carry the psychological scars for many years to come.

Do those who have unleashed this madness in the name of some twisted notion of a greater nation not realize that the welfare and happiness of children is the future of their nation? Do they not realize that inflicting the suffering they have on children will only produce a sick nation whose citizens will have to live with the shame and guilt for generations to come?

I join my voice with all humanity in imploring, hoping and praying that the carnage will stop.

[Julian Reed, Liberal, Halton—Peel, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as a member of the Canada-Croatia parliamentary friendship group and as a member of the parliamentary committee on human rights, I rise in the House today with so many of my colleagues in a joint effort to honour the victims of the present war in Bosnia-Hercegovina.

From the selfish pursuit of territory and the inhuman drive known as ethnic cleansing, over 200,000 souls have lost their lives in what is today not the only but one of the bloodiest parts of the world.

Countless more have been physically injured, psychologically tormented and driven from their homes as refugees. Thousands of these deaths as well as refugees have been children on whose shoulders lie the only hope for a more tolerant world.

As parliamentarians, citizens and humanists, let us welcome refugees to Canada from this area of conflict in the world as from such other areas and let us celebrate their courage.

Official Opposition

[Bob Ringma, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, earlier this week I watched as the Leader of the Opposition explained on the CBC his reasons for separation. He said: "All we want to do is manage our own money; that's all". Not once did I hear the words language or culture.

If all Canada represents to the Official Opposition is dollars and cents then I urge the government to take the same tough stand it has taken with my own province, British Columbia, over medicare. All provinces would like more control of their own affairs but not at the expense of destroying our country.

If the true agenda of members of the official opposition is simply economic sovereignty let them say so and quit confusing the issue and their supporters with the pretence of a francophone homeland.

On behalf of all Canadians who love this country more than just the income they derive from it, I urge the government to fully explain the costs and ramifications of economic freedom to Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition.

Multiple Sclerosis Day

[Jean Payne, Liberal, St. John's West, NL]

Mr. Speaker, all members know that today is Multiple Sclerosis Day and that is why we are all wearing carnations.

It is estimated that 50,000 Canadians have MS but the number of people affected goes far beyond those who actually have the disease. Family and friends deal with the associated health problems each and every day. I have seen up close the impact MS can have on people.

Medical research is needed to find the causes of MS, effective treatments and ultimately a cure for the disease. However research is expensive and requires a lot of money.

I urge the people of St. John's West to support the National Carnation Campaign for the MS Society of Canada in its efforts to raise $2 million for medical research. This Mother's Day please buy a carnation to help find a cure.

Rwanda

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

Violent fighting continues between the Rwandan army and the rebels. This massacre which has already killed at least 200,000 people must stop. However, the UN assistance mission to Rwanda, now reduced to some 449 soldiers, is completely overwhelmed. Faced with his humanitarian responsibilities, the UN Secretary General has asked the Security Council to send peacekeeping reinforcements to Rwanda.

Can the Deputy Prime Minister tell us whether Canada intends to support the request of the UN Secretary General and make a direct contribution to the reinforcements requested by Mr. Boutros Boutros-Ghali?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Foreign Affairs clearly stated yesterday that Canada intended to call on the UN Secretary General to help find a solution to Rwanda's problems.

We are very, very concerned about the thousands of people now in refugee camps and also very, very disappointed with the continuing massacre. We are currently talking about the possibility of broader intervention.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, beyond concern and disappointment, I think that Quebecers and Canadians expect the government to indicate clearly what it intends to do, especially with regard to a very specific proposal from the UN Secretary General himself.

So what is Canada's position on this request: is it yes or no? In particular, I would ask the Deputy Prime Minister whether she admits that, without a UN intervention force, it is totally impossible to set up any medical or humanitarian operation that Rwandans so urgently need.

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, it is unfair of the Leader of the Opposition to characterize Canada's response as mere concern.

We have been on the ground. We are on the ground. We continue to be on the ground both with a physical presence and financial assistance. We are working very closely with the United Nations and the Security Council to ensure that the solution we find will meet with regional support, but more important, will reach out to those hundreds of thousands of people who have been left homeless as a result of this massacre.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, while we are making speeches, while we are speaking and expressing our feelings, hundreds of thousands of people are being killed in that country, a country that is very close to Canada because of our international policies and aid programs. We have had a presence in that country for close to 100 years. What are we doing to prevent this slaughter? Some rivers are now jammed with the bodies of the people killed. We must go beyond words.

I ask the government whether the presence of an intervention force would prompt the rebels and the Rwandan army to negotiate a ceasefire that would end these barbarous events which require our intervention.

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition should understand that the commander of the UN forces in Rwanda is a Canadian and he is continuing to work under very difficult circumstances.

We have detailed an additional 10 personnel to take the place of the Belgians, who had to leave the country, for logistic and other support to keep the airport open. We have been putting in humanitarian aid on a daily basis. It has been Canada with its Hercules flights that has ferried out nearly 1,500 people and ferried in thousands of pounds of relief supplies.

This morning one of our planes was hit by three shots but no damage was done. The plane is being repaired in Nairobi. It had a BBC reporter on board.

I want to underline the fact that this is a very dangerous theatre of conflict. Whatever we decide to do in terms of incremental action has to be thought through very considerably.

Taxation System

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the ruling by the Federal Court of Appeal on the taxation of child-support payments has reopened the debate on the inequities of the taxation system for families. The ruling said that the Income Tax Act was discriminatory, because it treated differently divorced parents and other individuals in similar circumstances.

My question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Does she agree that we should review all the fiscal measures dealing with child support and custody?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, clearly we recognize the inequities of the present taxation system. This is why, in a large part at the request of the women's caucus of the Liberal Party, the Minister of Finance started a discussion of this in his budget.

It is equally obvious that this court ruling will have a very direct impact on the income of many families. We are studying the direct implications, and the Minister of Justice as well as the Minister of Finance indicated yesterday that we can expect a decision on this in the very near future.

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a supplementary to the Deputy Prime Minister. Does she not agree that this ruling and its consequences show the need to proceed without further delay to an in-depth reform of the whole taxation system, a system which should be based on equity, fairness and the absence of loopholes?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat that the Minister of Finance recognized and understood the inequities in the tax system when in the budget he launched a process to review this very provision. In fact, he was encouraged to do so not only by the private member's bill launched by the member for Nepean, but also by the strong presentations he received from the membership of the women's caucus of the Liberal Party.

I can assure the hon. member that the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Justice and all members of the government are going to be working very hard to make sure that present inequities in the tax system are eliminated.

Aboriginal Self-Government

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

I am sure that the minister will agree that the establishment of any genuine democratic government must rest on the consent of the governed. The minister has told the House that he is proceeding with the establishment of aboriginal self-government in Manitoba and that he has obtained the consent of the chiefs.

Would the minister tell the House clearly and explicitly whether he also intends to seek the consent of the aboriginal people of Manitoba for this new form of government?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if my friend is suggesting another referendum but I think he is.

Probably in the long run this is going to depend a lot on how the aboriginal people govern themselves. The way they govern themselves now is to always go back to the people. They go back to the people much more than we do. They have more self-government now. I see some of the hon. members nodding. Anybody who has done aboriginal work realizes that they are consulting all the time.

A short answer to the question is that there probably will be referendums at the band level if they go along on the same basis they are now.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his reply. He knows that sometimes leaders will agree to constitutional arrangements which the people will not approve if they get a chance to vote, as in the case of the Charlottetown accord.

Will the minister tell the House what would be wrong with seeking the democratic consent of all the aboriginal people of Manitoba to this new form of government through a formal referendum mechanism?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, in answer to the leader of the Reform Party, the way it looks like it is playing out now is that the leadership after consultation with the membership has decided on dismantling, to take it subject matter by subject matter starting with capital, forestry and so on.

At some point they will take back what they think is an appropriate self-government arrangement to their people. I am hopeful that if the leadership is wise and does the job wisely, as perhaps we have not done on our side in the past, that the people will ratify the agreements.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I think the minister is saying that there may be a referendum on this issue in Manitoba. We would like more clarification.

The chances of securing the consent of the aboriginal people of Manitoba to self-government would be enhanced if it were made crystal clear that any such government would be legally required to respect the rights and freedoms guaranteed by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Can the minister give the House an iron clad guarantee that any aboriginal self-government arrangement established in Manitoba will give aboriginal people full protection of their personal rights and freedoms under the charter?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, that is a good question. The rights and freedoms under the charter as they are now expressed apply to provincial and federal governments. I think we have to be cognizant that when we make these transfers that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, about which I feel very strongly, should be transposed into the negotiations.

The Leader of the Opposition will be happy-not the opposition leader but the leader of the Reform Party, hopefully the opposition-

[Some hon. members]

Soon, soon.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Perhaps some day the government. The leader of the Reform Party makes a valid point. The next legislation that will be before the House dealing with aboriginal people he will see clearly that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms will apply. That will be some time this month.

Social Program Reform

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Yesterday, in his press conference, the Prime Minister, far from being more sympathetic to the provinces' reluctance regarding the social program reform, said that he would go ahead with it.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister confirm that her government intends to proceed with the social program reform one way or another, as the Prime Minister said, and even without the provinces' support?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, what the Prime Minister said yesterday is exactly what he has been saying since the beginning of our mandate. We are negotiating in good faith to find a solution. Obviously, if we cannot come to a solution, we will proceed only in those fields which are under federal jurisdiction. This is exactly the position adopted by the Opposition leader when he disagreed with his government during certain negotiations, in 1989.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can the Deputy Prime Minister reconcile her comments with the fact that, except for unemployment insurance, all the other areas which would be included in the reform are under provincial jurisdiction?