Debates of May 5th, 1994

Social Program Reform

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister said and keeps saying that he wants to find good solutions. What is most important to him, and what should be most important to all politicians, is to have jobs for workers. Unemployed people in Montreal, Shawinigan or Dolbeau are very interested in government projects but less interested in federal-provincial bickering. We are trying to use a fair and equitable approach and we are negotiating in good faith.

Self-Government

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Lisgar—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister of aboriginal affairs. We seek the assistance of the minister in responding to written communications sent to us by our original peoples other than chiefs.

Will the minister tell us how he has responded to the fears and concerns expressed in these written letters about native self-government because his answers to these letters will help us in answering ours.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, that is not a question.

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Lisgar—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am very surprised.

Does the minister tell me that he has had no letters from these native people? I would ask him how he will respond to this. The members on the opposite side support self-government. We want the minister to realize that we as Reformers support the same self-government for native people. We have had genuine fears of concern addressed to us about this.

Would the minister explain why he refuses to open up the process to all Canadians to alleviate the concerns of those people not directly involved in the negotiations?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, in the words of Allan MacEachen, that's better, it's a question.

The Economy

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

Yesterday, the Prime Minister took stock of his government's first six months. The unemployment rate remains unacceptable, the economy is stagnant and no real government expenditure control or economic recovery measures have been implemented.

Can the Deputy Prime Minister confirm that the turnabout announced yesterday by the Prime Minister on the subject of his participation in the Quebec election can be explained by the fact he has nothing to show Quebecers except for the climate of confrontation his government has created on various issues?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the only confrontation climate created in this House is the one the member from the other side is generating by not striving to find real economic solutions; he just keeps ranting because he does not want Canada to succeed.

[The Speaker]

Order! I would appreciate it if members would refrain from using certain words they have been uttering during questions and answers and also if questions were not so loaded.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can the Deputy Prime Minister speak of government achievements when, since January 19 this year, the government has presented almost nothing to us and no important and significant bill on economic recovery and job creation has been tabled to date?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, as far as I know, a budget is an important document for job creation in this country. It just so happens we did present a budget. We have already approved millions and millions in Canadian investments for projects in Quebec which will give jobs to real workers and not to those who refuse to work and just keep bitching.

[The Speaker]

Order. The members should please consider their words before using them. As I said, some terms are slightly loaded. I will ponder upon terms like bitching and will come back to you on this.

Contracting

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board. I certainly expect an answer, not like that last outrage that my colleague got.

A recently released Treasury Board report indicated that the federal government spent $5.2 billion last year contracting out services. Talk about a place to cut in this budget. That report did not indicate who received the contracts, on what basis the contracts were issued, and how values for these contracts were established.

To clarify this situation I would like to ask the President of the Treasury Board to immediately table all information that his department has currently. Also, will he indicate from 1990 on what those contracts were?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the information that the member refers to is part of the review of efficiency of programs that we are undertaking with the public sector employee representatives, the unions, in an effort to find savings in government spending so, as we said in the budget, we can help to shorten the period of the wage freeze. Information was provided to that extent.

We are still undergoing our review of contracting and contracting out. I might add that that $5 billion does not just include the kind of contracting out that the unions are concerned about but includes all contracting; everything from doctors for aboriginal communities in the north, for example, to the repairing of planes and ships for the Department of National Defence.

Certainly whatever information we can provide for the member and for other hon. members of the House we are quite willing to provide as part of the review of contracting out which will be dealt with not only by the Treasury Board but also by the government operations standing committee.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

I thank the hon. minister for a decent answer, Mr. Speaker.

More than 36,000 of these contracts were issued in 1992-93 alone. Some suspect that the contracts were given to friends of government rather than being issued on the basis of merit. This report also indicates that contracts were granted without public scrutiny and almost half were issued without a tender process.

Will the President of the Treasury Board agree that all future government contracts must be subject to public tender process?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the period of time we are referring to in the statistics is of the last government, not this current government.

This Liberal government is dedicated to cost efficiency, to spending the taxpayers' money wisely, doing so in a fair and open fashion, a transparent fashion, so that people can see how their money is being spent. We intend to bring about reforms and changes from what the last government did in terms of contracting.

Canadian Museum Of Nature

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

There has been more troubling revelations regarding the Canadian Museum of Nature. This morning, at a press conference, representatives of the science community asked that the questionable lay-off of several scientists be investigated in view of the fact that it has far-reaching consequences. It gives a bad name to the museum and jeopardizes its research activities as a whole.

Given these new facts, is the Minister of Canadian Heritage willing to reconsider and, without delay, ask for a public inquiry with a view to hearing the testimony of all the people involved in this matter?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I have already had the opportunity to speak several times on the problems that have been brought to light regarding this museum.

The person I rely on in this matter is the Auditor General of Canada who has the trust not only of the government but also of this House. He said he would perform a special in-depth audit of the museum's operations and finances. I understand that the museum board of directors has requested that this audit be conducted without delay. Once we have all the facts and the Auditor General's conclusion, we will be able to pass judgement.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister realize that this museum has a unique responsibility in Canada to perform basic, theoretical and applied research, and that any delay, given the time it will take the Auditor General to conduct an audit and elected representatives to hold a public inquiry, seriously jeopardizes the mission of the museum and its reputation in the scientific community?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's remarks, which are more a comment than a question, start from the premise that the museum is guilty as charged, even before we have the facts and know what is really going on. I am aware of the criticisms that have been levelled and I take them seriously. Soon we will know the facts.

Sea King Helicopters

[Ron MacDonald, Liberal, Dartmouth, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

The future of the Canadian military Sea King fleet is once again before the public with the recent crash of a Sea King at the cost of two lives with two other airmen seriously injured.

Although meticulously maintained many of these aircraft are older than the pilots that fly them and there is a need for the government to make a decision soon to replace this fleet.

I ask the Minister of National Defence if he can assure this House of the airworthiness of the remaining Sea King fleet and indeed will he give a commitment that this government does intend to replace these aircraft?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, first I would like to acknowledge that we extend our sympathy to the families of the two airmen killed and the other two that were seriously injured in this particular crash.

I know it is of great concern to the hon. member because these helicopters are based at CFB Shearwater in the hon. member's constituency. These helicopters are well maintained, otherwise we would not fly them.

This party in the election campaigned against the EH-101 helicopter because we felt it was too expensive a solution for the helicopter needs of the government. We never denied that there would have to be some replacement at some point in time for the Sea Kings. The Sea Kings are airworthy until the year 2000.

I want to assure the hon. member and other colleagues in the House that we intend to fly them. They will do the search and rescue work and other naval reconnaissance and anti-submarine patrols. They will keep flying until the year 2000 because they will be well maintained.

I believe once the defence review is over later this year, we will have some answers as to the kind of equipment that we will need to discharge our future obligations.

Employment

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

Ridiculous statements from senior cabinet ministers continue to plague the government, not only today but yesterday when the Minister of Human Resources Development said that if people with jobs would not work overtime there would be more jobs for unemployed Canadians.

Can the Deputy Prime Minister tell Canadians if legislation to limit the work week is currently under consideration by this government?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, in the month of February the Minister for Human Resources Development launched an analysis of the whole issue of how we work.

In fact not only limitations on overtime, but job sharing, flexible work hours and different ways of working are challenges that we have to face to meet the needs of the real workforce.

I happen to know in my own constituency at the steel company there are many people who would like to be called back to work, but unfortunately overtime sometimes prevents that. That is one of the things that the minister's panel is looking at but there is certainly no legislation proposed at this time.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister's statement of yesterday implies that hard working people are the cause of unemployment.

Using the minister's logic, if the Deputy Prime Minister herself worked overtime she would be contributing to unemployment.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister not agree that her minister's logic and her own logic are flawed and do not address the real problem in this country, that high taxes are forcing people to work longer hours and high deficits and debt are causing unemployment?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I think what the Minister of Human Resources Development is recognizing is what many Canadians are recognizing and that is the workforce is changing drastically.

In the old days we could expect to work specific hours of the week but that does not always work in every particular occupation. What he is suggesting is something we should all be looking at. Is there a possibility for us to be examining flex time? Is it possible for us to look at job sharing so that for example women who may have home responsibilities could comfortably combine those with paid work outside the home?

These are all creative ideas that the minister is examining. I wish the member would open his heart and examine some of those positive solutions with us.