Debates of Feb. 17th, 1995

Customs Tariffs

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

No, Mr. Speaker. The answer given by the Minister for International Trade was very clear. The Canadian position through the last 16 months that we have been in office has been absolute and unequivocal. We support the Canadian supply management system. We are determined to defend that system against all comers. If the United States has a different point of view and wants to take a run at us, we obviously cannot stop it from taking a run at us, but if it does we will defend ourselves with everything we have.

[Jean-Guy Chrétien, Bloc, Frontenac, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question. Since the legal position in this dispute is straightforward and clearly established by the Uruguay Round and there is nothing to negotiate, are we to understand that the government's weakness in this matter, which affects Quebec in particular, is the price to be paid to Americans for having resolved the conflict over western wheat last summer?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, absolutely not. The position of the Canadian government through all of these very difficult trade issues with the United States has been first and foremost that we will defend Canadian interest and every aspect of it and that we will not in any way engage in any form of trade-off between regions of the country or different groups of farmers or different commodity groups.

Each one of these issues is separate and distinct and must be dealt with individually on its own merits. We will not engage in any form of trade-off.

The Economy

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, I have listened very carefully to the responses of the Minister of Finance to my colleagues from Calgary West and Capilano-Howe Sound.

The minister has confirmed in this House that the government only has an interim target or goal and nothing beyond that. Moody's has given a message and the business community has given a message that there needs to be more.

Would he confirm that the government's target is a political target but not a real target in terms of economic needs today?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the government's target, 3 per cent of GDP, is approximately at the level at which the growth of the economy becomes greater than the growth of the debt. The debt to GDP ratio will begin to stabilize and then decline.

That is a very important target for a country. It is not a political target. It is an economic target. I am sure the member understands that. I am also sure the member understands when I say that it is an interim target that our ultimate target is to eliminate the deficit.

I am also sure the member will understand that a country does not only live by targets, that it lives by success. If I might, as of today the fact is Canada had its most impressive year ever for trade. I want to congratulate my colleagues. Merchandise exports, imports and the trade surplus over the year are at record levels. I congratulate the minister.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. minister can laud those accomplishments all he wants. Was it because of the government or despite the government that those things happened?

Moody's and the business community are saying very clearly to the government that it should work toward a balanced budget and we could maintain our triple-A rating. That is not happening.

Under the current circumstances would the minister consider stopping the presses, revising his budget, increasing the expenditure reduction and bringing in a more credible budget at the

end of this month, better than the one he has announced to the business community?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, last spring when the House was sitting the members opposite kept standing up and saying we are not going to hit our target, will we bring in a new budget, that they are panic stricken and we have to do something. About every second day there was a new cry of gloom and doom from the other side.

At that time we said there was no necessity to bring in a new budget for this year because we were going to hit our targets. Now we are going to beat those targets by a great deal.

The hon. member is bringing in his budget next Tuesday. We all look forward to it. I find it a little difficult that he stands in this House and says that we must revise our budget, we must bring in a more credible budget when he has not even seen it.

I can understand the necessity of practising and rehearsing his lines for after we bring in the budget but I do not think he should do it publicly.

Low Level Flights

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment.

The Federal Environmental Assessment Review Panel, which is studying a proposal to increase the number of low level flights in Labrador, has not yet submitted its report to the government.

Is the Minister of the Environment aware of the negotiations currently in progress between Canada and Italy, Belgium, and the United States with a view to permitting new military training flights, even before the impact on the environment, wildlife, and people is known, and has the minister given her support for these negotiations?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

No, Mr. Speaker.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how does the minister explain her government's disregard for the normal democratic process of consultation, by negotiating new low level flights now, even before the assessment report has been tabled?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, we reject the hon. member's allegation. The environmental assessment is currently under way, and we will abide by the results of the assessment, which have yet to be reported to cabinet.

Camp Ipperwash

[Rose-Marie Ur, Liberal, Lambton—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

Last year this government announced its commitment to return the site of Camp Ipperwash to the Kettle and Stoney Point Band. I understand that DND and the band have had discussions about a joint environmental assessment of the land before it is turned over.

Will the minister please tell me what progress is being made on returning the Camp Ipperwash land to the Kettle and Stoney Point Band?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her question. I know she is very concerned with the future of those particular lands.

As she will know, we decided to close Camp Ipperwash in last year's defence cuts because we believed that we could discharge our obligations at other facilities in Ontario and also because we wanted to facilitate the land being returned to the native population.

We are prepared to engage in a study with the native population of the area to decide on which approach should be taken in terms of environmental clean-up. We will give equal status to them on any particular study that is done.

Unfortunately we have yet to secure the agreement of local native leaders in this process and we are most anxious to do so.

Labour

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Last April the minister appointed Paul Fraser to report on current labour issues in the rail sector affecting CN, CP and Via Rail. This report has been pushed back a number of times now.

Where is the report and why has it not been able to prevent what appears to be an inevitable strike?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, if I might be allowed to clarify the hon. member's assertions, we appointed Mr. Allan Hope as the conciliation commissioner, not Mr. Paul Fraser. Mr. Hope has

already submitted his conciliation report which I received just last week.

We are presently reviewing it. It is going forward for translation. I expect to be able to table that report sometime next week at which time I hope it will provide the basis for a good negotiated settlement between the parties. I would not engage, as the hon. member seems to do, in prophesying a strike. I think the report can provide the basis for an agreement.

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we certainly hope that Mr. Hope's report does bring hope to the situation.

In 1950, 1966, 1973 and 1987 the federal government introduced back to work legislation within days of a railway strike and had to appoint an arbitrator. Last year a grain handler strike went through the same process.

Recognizing the devastation and the consequences of another strike to industry in Canada, now that the minister expects to receive this-

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

I would hope the member would get to the question, please.

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Will the minister introduce legislation that would prevent a strike before the need for back to work legislation?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, at no time did we welcome the need to use back to work legislation. The Canadian labour code was built upon the basic principle of collective bargaining, which means that parties to a dispute can arrive at a settlement that meets their mutual interests. That is on what the labour relations of the country have been built and have in fact served us.

Over the last year or so we have had a remarkable period of labour peace in Canada which I think we would like to see maintained. I would expect, once we table the report, that hope will spring eternal for a settlement.

Social Housing

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the public works minister.

For a few weeks now, the people of Quebec and Canada have been living under the threat of the next budget. People in need fear that it might be worse than the last one in the area of new social and co-op housing.

Given that since 1991, Quebec received only 19 per cent of the total amount earmarked for social housing, when it has a quarter of the population, which translates into a potential loss of $100 million per year, would the Minister of Public works commit himself to correcting this unfair situation for the neediest part of the Quebec population?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member's question. I am sure he is well aware that all ministers of the crown have to participate in cutbacks in terms of various expenditures in each of our departments.

The Minister of Finance has been extremely vigilant with cabinet colleagues to make sure that every expenditure is given due consideration.

I wish I could stand in the House today, and indeed in subsequent weeks, and give all sorts of assurances that there will be largess from the Government of Canada as it relates to housing. Quite frankly I think that would be misleading the House.

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

That answer, Mr. Speaker, comes from the mouth of a minister who is well known for his patronage in the maritimes and who shells out almost $400 million a year-

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

Order. I ask the hon. member to put his question.

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

The $100 million Quebec has lost over the past few years could be even higher if it were based on a Canadian standard-

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

Order. A question, please.