Debates of April 4th, 1995

Health Care

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, reasonable access is not the only Canada Health Act pillar that has crumbled. Let us look at the minister's arbitrary definition of user fees.

The minister says Alberta allows user fees; naughty, naughty, naughty. However at the Eastern Kings Memorial Hospital in Nova Scotia patients must pay for stitches, anaesthetic and syringes. Does the minister responsible for this arbitrary legislation not agree that patients having to pay for these things makes it a user fee?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the letter which I sent to all provinces interpreting the Canada Health Act and user fees applied to all provinces in this country. That is the way we implement federal legislation. Medical necessity has been defined by medical associations, provincial governments and in some cases the courts.

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

We now know that the minister, who had announced himself, with great fanfare, Mr. Manera's appointment at the helm of the CBC last year, was not even consulted by the Prime Minister before the appointment of the new president of the CBC, Perrin Beatty, was announced.

In light of the fact that he was totally excluded by the Prime Minister from the decision-making process regarding the appointment of Perrin Beatty as the new president of the CBC, will the Minister of Canadian Heritage acknowledge that this was a sign that the Prime Minister and the federal Cabinet have lost confidence in him?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's statement is unfounded, completely unfounded. I raised the issue with the minister first, before bringing it to Cabinet. I think this was more than a month before Mr. Beatty's appointment.

I think that the hon. member's information-Long before the budget was tabled, Mr. Manera had asked to be replaced for personal reasons. He called us weeks before the budget was tabled to say that he wanted to leave for reasons of his own and that his resignation had nothing to do with the budget. He actually handed in his resignation before the budget was even tabled.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

Are we to understand from the Prime Minister's answer that the heritage minister's inability to meet his obligations to the CBC is what led him to abdicate his duties as the minister responsible for this major Crown corporation?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I understand the hon. member's problem. Her supplementary was prepared before I gave my first answer.

I said previously and I repeat that Mr. Manera resigned long before the budget was tabled. I mentioned Mr. Beatty's name for the first time weeks before his appointment was made public.

Health Care

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, once and for all I want to end this fallacy. We in the Reform Party in no way, shape or form are in favour of an American style health care system. We will fight against it every time.

The Canada Health Act faces a grim future. It is supposed to guarantee reasonable access yet in British Columbia a person in severe pain has to wait 13 months for a hip transplant.

Will the Minister of Health review the act to provide a working definition of reasonable access?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I am quite pleased to hear that the hon. member is in favour of medicare as we have it in Canada. I suggest though that he speak with other members of his party who do not appear to share his views.

We will continue to insist that the Canada Health Act remain in place. It has served the people of Canada very well. It will continue to do so despite the protestations of the people from the third party who have absolutely no understanding of what it is like to be ill and not have the money to be treated. We refuse to allow our system to go back to that kind of inequity.

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister cannot tell me, an emergency room physician, that I do not know what is happening to sick people in this country.

You cannot tell me that people who are waiting 48 hours to get into an ICU are not suffering. They are suffering. Go into the hospitals and find out. I will take you by the hand and show you.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I would ask the hon. member to please address the Chair in his comments and I would ask him to put his question.

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, because of the void that we have, private companies are now having to offer to people on waiting lists to get their medical services done in the United States. Canadians are forced to pay for private insurance to have this done.

Will the minister amend the Canada Health Act to enable the provinces to get their health care financing under control?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, first, I will not hold his hand. Second, I have not heard this much self-serving rhetoric in a long time.

We do not have to amend the Canada Health Act to allow the provinces to get their fiscal houses in order. As a matter of fact, it is very important that we maintain the principles of the Canada Health Act as we all get our fiscal houses in order so that we can remember who we are here to represent. It is the people, all kinds of people; wealthy people, sick people and everyone else in the country.

Purchase Of Eh-101 Helicopters

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. The Canadian government is currently negotiating with the Agusta company the compensation to be paid following the cancellation of the EH-101 helicopter contract worth in excess of $5 billion, which, despite the cancellation, has already cost half a billion dollars. As a result of the investigation into the murder of a Belgian government minister, Agusta is now in hot water in Belgium for alledgedly paying $12 million in bribes in connection with a contract to purchase helicopters for the Belgian army.

Given the allegations of corruption made against Agusta, does the Prime Minister promise to suspend all negotiations with this company until the government has completed a judicial inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the EH-101 contract agreement, as the Minister of Human Resources Development called for on April 13, 1993?

[Réginald Bélair, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, negotiations have indeed been undertaken but, since legal proceedings are under way, I think it would be inappropriate to comment publicly at this time.

[Jean-Marc Jacob, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I had hoped that the Prime Minister would answer my question. I do not think it is inappropriate to initiate discussions.

Since Agusta is under investigation in Belgium and Italy for influence-peddling, corruption and arms smuggling, how can the Prime Minister justify continuing negotiations with Agusta without first looking into this company's profits in the Canadian helicopter deal?

[Réginald Bélair, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, in the preamble to his question, my hon. colleague said that discussions should be held, but a little later he says that negotiations should not be undertaken. He should first make up his mind; then, we will talk.

Public Service

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Fredericton—York—Sunbury, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board.

When the public service downsizing initiative was announced last month, the government committed to ensuring that departmental officials at the local level would be given the flexibility necessary to adjust staff and program requirements prior to final regulation and legislative proposals.

Would the minister please update members on what steps have been taken to ensure that local management has the ability to respond to individual and community needs in the downsizing exercise?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, in carrying out the downsizing which has been necessitated by the reduction in programs and services arising from the government's need to meet its deficit reduction targets, we have established labour-management committees in different communities across the country to help assist our employees in their adjustment from the public to the private sector.

Furthermore, we have given flexibility to the departments. I would trust that the departments would consult with regional councils so that the downsizing can be managed within the context of a region as well as meeting the needs which are set out in the budget.

Let me assure the hon. member that we will deal with our employees, those who are departing and those who are remaining, in a fair and reasonable way.

Government Spending

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Yesterday I asked why Glenda Simms, the past president of the Canadian Advisory Council on the Status of Women, was being kept on the government payroll and going on irrelevant junkets when her position is now defunct. The Prime Minister responded by saying that he was giving her time to adjust to the new reality.

The government is throwing 45,000 civil servants out of work. They, like many other Canadians, will have to adjust to their new reality, so why does Simms get special treatment? Is this another example of Liberal double standards?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, the President of the Treasury Board has made sure the people who are to be let go because of the cuts will have good payments made to them. An agreement was negotiated by the union to make sure there will be some help for them to adjust.

It is part of the policy of the government to make sure it is not the end from one day to the other. We do that for all the bureaucrats and for that woman too.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, 45,000 civil servants did not get a trip to the Philippines to have fun in the sun.

The government appointed Simms in January when it knew it was going to disband the Canadian Advisory Council on the Status of Women. Simms wasted taxpayers' money on questionable expenses during her tenure as head of the council. Now the government is allowing her to waste even more money on this needless and frivolous trip to the Philippines.

Will the Prime Minister demonstrate to Canadians he cares about government waste, cancel the junket and terminate Simms appointment?

[Sheila Finestone, Liberal, Secretary of State (Multiculturalism) (Status of Women)]

Mr. Speaker, Dr. Simms, at the invitation of international agencies, has been invited to speak on Canada's very fine programs to ensure equality for all people, including employment equity for women.

She has also been asked to address the issues of sexual harassment in the workplace, for which Canada is doing a fairly good job to date. She is addressing these programs and policies in the Philippines where she has been invited to speak. The Minister of Foreign Affairs has agreed that Canada, as a role model, should speak in international fora of this nature. We are very proud she is going to represent us.

Burundi

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Yesterday, the President of Burundi alluded to the threat of a double genocide when he said that something must be done about the similarities between the current situation in his country and what happened in Rwanda. Four hundreds Hutus, mostly women and children, are said to have been slaughtered last week by the Burundese army and by armed groups of Tutsis, in the Gasorwe region.

Will the minister tell us what the Canadian government intends to do following the plea for help made by the Burundi President?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member will understand that any solution to the precarious situation in Burundi must absolutely be based on a reconciliation of the parties involved.

This is why the Union of African States, as well as the Francophonie, which met in Paris last week, decided to send ministerial missions to meet with the parties to try to make them understand that reconciliation is essential. We are confident that these preventive diplomacy efforts will give positive results.

The hon. member is seeking a military solution, but that is not what government authorities want. The hon. member's suggestion has not been made by government authorities. The solution proposed by the ministers of the Francophonie is precisely the one requested by the Burundi government official.