House of Commons Hansard #10 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was agreement.

Topics

North American Aerospacedefence CommandGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

John O'Reilly Liberal Victoria—Haliburton, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the parliamentary secretary for the question. I indicated the benefits to Canada for a DND budget of $320 million as probably one of the least expensive agreements any nation could have with the United States.

Though there is a crisis in Cuba right now and that Canada is having some differences there, I still think that 99 per cent of the agreements Canada has with the United States, the giant to the south, are excellent agreements and this is one of them. Although minuscule problems do occur, they can be solved with this type of agreement in place.

North American Aerospacedefence CommandGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Jesse Flis Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to participate in the debate today. It is a double pleasure because the Prime Minister, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of National Defence gave me the honour of chairman of the Canadian section of the Permanent Joint Board on Defence between Canada and the United States.

This Permanent Joint Board on Defence was formed through a meeting of Prime Minister Mackenzie King and President Roosevelt at Ogdensburg, New York on August 18, 1940. They came out with a joint statement issuing the announcement of this permanent joint board. That board has been meeting since 1940, sometimes more than twice a year. Now it is twice a year with one meeting in

Canada and one in the United States. The last meeting of the Permanent Joint Board on Defence was in Kingston on October 10 to 12, 1995. The 197th meeting will be held in the first week of April in the United States. I am the Canadian chair and Dwight Mason is the chairman of the U.S. section. He reports to President Clinton and I report to the Prime Minister of Canada.

It is at those meetings that we did discuss the renewal of the NORAD agreement. Is it okay as it is? Is there something lacking in the agreement that we should build in? We talked about the inclusion of something about protecting the environment. I am pleased the Minister of Foreign Affairs already mentioned that if there is any environmental dispute, it would be referred to the Permanent Joint Board on Defence between Canada and the United States.

The NORAD treaty is reflective of the positive and co-operative relationship that Canada and the United States have in so many areas. Our two countries are linked by defence, a dense web of common interest in a wide variety of areas. NORAD represents a highly valuable element of the defence web.

Since both ministers and other speakers before me have already given the content of the NORAD agreement, I would like to take this time to show how our two countries co-operate in other areas for the defence and security of our two countries, for example in the environment, energy and transportation.

Our two countries are stewards of much of the North American environment. Our mutual care of this environment is a model for the world. Our bilateral environmental relations are marked by a high degree of co-operation. Geography has made joint action and sensitivity to the rights and needs of each other a matter of both necessity and common sense.

Canada and the United States share a border close to 9,000 kilometres along over 300 rivers and lakes. Wildlife migrates back and forth across this border and air currents flow in both directions. To a significant degree, each country depends on the other to ensure that the great wealth of natural resources each possesses is managed in a sustainable fashion and that a high level of environmental quality is provided to its citizens.

Over the years a dynamic and multifaceted legal institutional framework for managing our shared environmental resources has evolved. This framework consists of both formal and informal arrangements.

At the formal level the oldest mechanism is the boundary waters treaty negotiated way back in 1909 between the United States and Great Britain on behalf of Canada. This treaty established the legal framework for the use and management of transboundary waters by the two countries. It created the International Joint Commission to prevent and resolve disputes. The commission has earned an international reputation for its handling of transboundary environmental issues in an independent, objective and collegial manner.

The treaty is a remarkable document which, to the credit of those who drafted it, has withstood the test of time. Among its notable provisions are those giving each country equal rights to the use of boundary waters and prohibiting the pollution of these waters by either country.

The 1991 air quality agreement provides a forward looking framework for addressing transboundary air quality issues and for establishing new commitments to control other transboundary air pollution problems in the future.

Other important agreements include the 1916 migratory birds convention, which is one of the oldest and most effective conservation treaties in North America, and the 1986 North American waterfowl management plan, which aims to restore continental migratory waterfowl populations.

In addition there is the 1978 Great Lakes water quality agreement. This agreement is perhaps the best example of constructive Canada-U.S. co-operation on environmental issues. First signed in 1972, the agreement provides a framework for cleaning up our most significant shared resource. Although more work needs to be done particularly in eliminating the input of persistent toxic substances, great strides have been made in restoring the lakes to an acceptable level of quality for the benefit of citizens on both sides of the border.

In addition to formal arrangements, there is a network of informal ad hoc linkages between various levels and departments of our two governments. Co-operative arrangements have also been forged between our provinces and the state governments in the U.S.A. The provinces are of special importance in the environmental area due to the significant responsibilities they have for natural resources and environmental management. Just as Canada and the United States must work together on environmental issues, so too must the federal and provincial governments.

An additional and valuable component of the Canada-United States environmental relationship is the many linkages that have been developed between environmental interest groups and between business and industry in both countries.

What this myriad of formal and informal linkages have in common is the recognition that air, water and wildlife do not stop at national borders. A case in point is the situation of the Porcupine caribou herd which is crucial to the life and livelihood of Canadian aboriginal communities. In a 1987 agreement Canada and the United States recognized that this herd is a shared resource. As a result, both governments are concerned about any plans that would cause harm to the herd's main calving grounds in Alaska.

It is important to note in this debate on the NORAD renewal that the new NORAD agreement will include a clause that provides for Canada-U.S. discussions of the environmental implications of NORAD operations. This underscores that sound environmental relations between Canada and the United States have become an important dimension in all areas of the bilateral relationship. It also underscores the recognition of the need to address in a consistent manner north and south of the border the environmental implications of joint defence activities. As I mentioned, the minister already mentioned in his remarks what happens if there is an environmental dispute when we are co-operating in NORAD exercises and activities.

Moving to the energy sector, Canada and the United States have a co-operative relationship which has benefited both countries for many years. Our energy relationship is governed by the principles of deregulation and non-discrimination within the framework of NAFTA and the World Trade Organization. That is why I do not think we should get too uptight when Jesse Helms tries to pass legislation in the United States which affects Canadian businesses. We do have the NAFTA rules to go to and we have the World Trade Organization rules to refer to.

The success of Canada's oil and gas export industry in the United States is impressive by any standard. Canada is one of the United States' leading oil suppliers. Our current oil exports of one million barrels per day could increase as new developments such as the Hibernia field come on stream. Canadian natural gas now represents some 12 per cent of the U.S. market. Opportunities should grow as Canada's dynamic petroleum producing and pipeline companies continue to work closely with their U.S. partners.

Canada and the U.S. have a long history of electricity trade dating back to the first export of Niagara Falls power in 1901. We co-operate very closely on power issues within the context of the Niagara River treaty and the Columbia River treaty. Today Canadian provincial utilities export well over $1 billion in electricity to the U.S.A. However, we face important challenges in the coming years and I will briefly refer to some of them.

The U.S. electricity industry is now undergoing deregulation and restructuring. Current U.S. proposals may require Canadian electricity exporters to offer open access transmission in Canada if they wish to receive similar access in the U.S. The Canadian electricity industry and the Canadian government generally welcome new U.S. market opportunities offered by deregulation. However, the structure of the Canadian industry is different from that of the United States, with a small number of very large publicly owned utilities and provincial jurisdiction over electricity generation and distribution.

Canada too is moving toward electricity deregulation, but the pace of change in Canada may be different. We will work with the U.S. to ensure its co-operation in continuing our strong bilateral relationship during the transition. Together, Canada and the United States are putting in place advanced efficient energy systems that facilitate economic growth in both countries.

In the bilateral transportation area, NAFTA and open skies have expanded Canada-U.S. commerce and tourism tremendously. For example, Canada and the U.S. now trade $1 billion Canadian per day and open skies has helped Canadian Airlines International increase its transborder passenger traffic by 84 per cent. Air Canada traffic grew by 24 per cent. Last year more than one million people crossed the Canada-U.S. border.

These accomplishments put new stresses on the border however at a time of decreasing government resources for staff and infrastructure on both sides of the border. In response to the new realities of border management, Canada and the U.S.A. announced the accord on our shared border during President Clinton's February 1995 visit to Ottawa. This is a significant achievement.

The border accord is an agreement between the Canadian and U.S. border inspection agencies to jointly modernize and improve border management. The border accord functions as an umbrella agreement for various individual initiatives.

For individual travellers the CANPASS/INSPASS programs at airports and CANPASS/PORTPASS on highways allow frequent travellers to cross the border via special lanes. Rather than face a customs or immigration officer, travellers pass through an automated gate that is activated by a personal identifier such as a fingerprint or hand geometry. Duties can be paid by credit card. CANPASS is now available when entering Canada at the two highway crossings in B.C. and at the Vancouver airport. It is expected at all of the Pearson terminals, Dorval and Mirabel by the fall of 1996.

For commercial traffic, the NAFTA prototype will harmonize border documents and procedures in all NAFTA countries. Documentation will be shared electronically. New transponder technology will read electronic signals from properly documented trucks and allow them to cross the border without stopping. A prototype of this system is expected to be on line at Buffalo-Fort Erie this year.

Canada and the U.S.A. also co-operate on preclearance services. For example, since the 1950s air preclearance in Canadian airports has allowed U.S. customs and immigration officers to preclear U.S. bound passengers into the U.S.A. before crossing the border giving Canada based travellers direct access to the huge U.S. air network.

In the autumn of 1995 Canada and the U.S.A. agreed to extend preclearance services to the Ottawa airport. The U.S.A. is considering establishing preclearance services at Halifax. Other U.S. preclearance services are provided for the Vancouver-Seattle train service and for ferries travelling between B.C., Washington and Alaska.

When we look at the NORAD renewal we should not only be looking at that one agreement between our two countries. We should look at the whole mass of treaties and agreements we have to demonstrate to the world how our two countries live together in peace and harmony. We live together taking into account that air currents and water currents do not stop at a border; they travel back and forth. And so with our defence and with our security we must also look at the defence and security of North America.

North American Aerospacedefence CommandGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

I believe that terminates the member's time for the debate.

It being two o'clock, the House will now proceed to Statements by Members.

Scott Tournament Of HeartsStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Stan Dromisky Liberal Thunder Bay—Atikokan, ON

Mr. Speaker, over 800 volunteers and 51,000 fans enjoyed the display of superb curling at the recent Scott Tournament of Hearts, our annual Canadian curling championships held in the great city of Thunder Bay, Ontario. The enthusiasm and commitment of all combined to make Thunder Bay the warmest city in Canada despite what the thermometer may have read.

This year's winning foursome came from St. Catharines, Ontario and consisted of Marilyn Bodogh, Jane Hooper-Perroud, Corie Beveridge and Kim Gellard. A capacity crowd saw the Ontario team post a 7 to 4 win over Alberta. It was truly an exciting eight days worth of curling.

Thank you Thunder Bay for a job well done.

South Alberta Light Horsereserve RegimentStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Monte Solberg Reform Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Speaker, today I rise in the House to salute the members of the South Alberta Light Horse Reserve Regiment and the contributions they have made to the community of Medicine Hat and indeed their country.

This proud regiment and its predecessors have participated in the Northwest Canada Rebellion of 1885, the first and second world wars, the Korean conflict and many of Canada's peacekeeping obligations around the world. Members serving in the regiment have been awarded numerous and impressive medals and decorations for their dedicated and selfless contribution to Canada's military campaigns.

The government's attempt to cut the defence budget on the backs of cost effective reserve units will sever the link between the Canadian Armed Forces and local communities and undermine the glorious contributions of reservists across the country. Instead, the reserves should be bolstered by directing savings from the bloated civilian and military bureaucracies to combat personnel and equipment.

The South Alberta Light Horse Reserve has an outstanding history. Our nation has benefited from the service and sacrifice of these men and women who have served Canada well. The government should preserve, not obliterate their presence.

FisheriesStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Derek Wells Liberal South Shore, NS

Mr. Speaker, on Friday the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans responded to recommendations coming from recent meetings between representatives of Scotia-Fundy fisheries organizations and senior DFO officials in Dartmouth. As a result, I am happy to report that all offices in southwest Nova Scotia have now been vacated.

I would like to commend the minister for endorsing the consensus recommendations and his commitment to seeking resolution where agreement was not reached.

The minister has shown that he is willing to listen to the concerns of fishermen and to continue to work toward resolution on the more contentious issues.

Because of concerns expressed to me by fishermen, I have been recommending for months that the core criteria be revised to include fishermen who have 75 per cent of their earned income from fishing which will include many small handline fishermen. The minister's commitment to this change is very important.

While not all of the issues were resolved, I am pleased by the amount of consensus coming from the meetings. It shows that a free flow of dialogue between the fishermen and the department can lead to new agreements and a better working relationship. I commend all who were involved for their patience and flexibility.

Acadia AxemenStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

John Murphy Liberal Annapolis Valley—Hants, NS

Mr. Speaker, the Acadia Axemen from my riding of Annapolis Valley-Hants are once again the national champions.

Last night in Toronto the Acadia men's hockey team showed tremendous determination in the CIAU final against Waterloo and came away with a thrilling 3-2 victory. Combining their speed and quickness with a total team effort, Acadia was unstoppable in its quest for its second national title in four years.

Goals from Paul Doherty, Wade Whitten and Christian Skoryna, combined with a stellar goaltending performance from rookie Trevor Amundrud, proved to be the difference in this game.

I want to pass on my congratulations to the players, the coaching staff, Acadia University, and, of course, the hundreds of fans who travelled to Toronto to cheer Acadia to victory.

Last night the Acadia Axemen proved that they are truly a cut above the rest.

Government ExpendituresStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Bloc

Jean H. Leroux Bloc Shefford, QC

Mr. Speaker, in keeping with the federal strategy aimed at raising one million Canadian flags before the end of the year, the Minister of Canadian Heritage is strongly suggesting that Quebec summer festivals receiving grants from the federal government increase its visibility on their sites.

How many additional millions is this going to cost Quebec taxpayers, when the federal government already spent at least $16 million to promote the Canadian identity during the 1995 Quebec referendum campaign?

I would ask the Prime Minister who is known to have condemned those he considered excessive devotees of the "flag on the hood", to remind the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Canadian Heritage that moderation tastes better.

Radio Canada InternationalStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Jim Abbott Reform Kootenay East, BC

Mr. Speaker, last year 125 employees at Radio Canada International were served notice that RCI was to be terminated 20 days from today, on March 31.

No specific provision for public funding of RCI is contained in the government spending estimates tabled last Thursday. The heritage minister is making noises about continuing RCI but has given no indication that she is prepared to look at alternative funding through commercialization.

The minister is seeking out Canadian business financial support for her flag program. Why can the minister not use these contacts to seek support for RCI? She should give the employees a chance to prove that RCI is a viable enterprise that can sustain itself on corporate advertising. If the government is so confident in the private sector's ability to create jobs, let us see it happen.

I challenge the heritage minister to announce today that she is seeking advice and corporate support for the privatization of RCI rather than the traditional tax and spend Liberal approach that has driven the country to its knees.

By the way, speaking of people on their knees, when is she going to tell the RCI employees whether or not they have a job on April 1?

Tyler KeithStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Reg Alcock Liberal Winnipeg South, MB

Mr. Speaker, last weekend at the Max Bell Centre at the University of Manitoba a young man came second in an 800-metre race.

This would not be such a remarkable event except for the fact that less than a year ago this young man was a star hurdler. He was run off the road in an act of violence and rendered a paraplegic. Rather than giving up, he has worked very hard training over this past year. After entering his first wheelchair race last week, he came second.

We are all very proud of Tyler Keith and we hope he keeps it up.

Tribute To Jacques VilleneuveStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Robert Bertrand Liberal Pontiac—Gatineau—Labelle, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is with great pride and enthusiasm that yesterday I joined millions of Canadians in watching Jacques Villeneuve, the Quebec race car driver, compete in his first formula 1 event.

This race, which took place in Melbourne, Australia, made it possible for the rest of the world to discover what Quebecers and Canadians have known for a long time: Jacques Villeneuve is one of the greatest race car drivers in the world. We are convinced that, without an unfortunate mechanical problem, Jacques Villeneuve would have started his promising Formula 1 career from the top step of the podium.

On behalf of my colleagues in this House, I congratulate Jacques Villeneuve for his talent and determination. He makes his country proud.

Tribute To Jacques VilleneuveStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Bloc

Jean Landry Bloc Lotbinière, QC

Mr. Speaker, saturday evening, the eyes of all sports fans in Quebec and Canada were riveted to their TV sets. Even sportswriters who were at the Montreal Forum to cover the game between the Canadians and the Senators were watching TV. All of them wanted to see Jacques

Villeneuve perform in his first Formula 1 race in Melbourne, Australia.

Jacques Villeneuve started from the pole position. Already this is a feat for a beginner in Formula 1. He led throughout the race but, because of mechanical problems, he had to leave that position only 5 laps before the end. He has shown everybody that he really is to be taken seriously in the Formula 1 racing. He still has to run several races before this summer, but he will be in Montreal on June 16 and we will be very glad to see him race on the Gilles-Villeneuve circuit. Congratulations, Jacques, on your performance.

Canada Social TransferStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Nick Discepola Liberal Vaudreuil, QC

Mr. Speaker, the recent budget of the finance minister has proven very simply and effectively that the Canadian government is listening and is responsive to the provinces' needs. We all remember that, last year, when our government announced the creation of the Canada health and social transfer, several provinces, including Quebec, worried about a possible decrease in funding.

In reply to that legitimate concern and in order to reassure people on the future of health, post-secondary education and welfare programs, our government promised to maintain the level of funding of that program for five years. This is further evidence of this government's commitment towards the development of a true partnership with all the provinces.

The BudgetStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Georgette Sheridan Liberal Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK

Mr. Speaker, last week's budget brought welcome changes to the taxation of child support. The finance minister, working in conjunction with his counterparts in justice, human resources development, the status of women and internal revenue, announced a comprehensive plan which will result in fairer tax treatment of child support payments, more equitable and consistent child support awards, and improved enforcement mechanisms.

At the heart of these initiatives are the needs of the child. While it took government action to bring about the legal changes, it was as a result of the parents, generally mothers raising their children alone, who pushed this issue forward, Suzanne Thibaudeau's court challenge to a law she felt treated her unfairly; my colleague, the member for Nepean whose private member's bill focused attention on this topic; and the member for Westmount whose leadership articulated the needs of many witnesses who appeared before us.

Finally, the loudest praise is for the thousands of custodial parents who have lived with the former system, for whom this issue was not an interesting legal point but grim reality which hit them every time there was not enough money for the extras, or even the necessities.

It was emotionally draining and difficult for many not used to expressing themselves forcefully or in public. But still they came and our hat is off to them.

ChinaStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Reform

Jim Hart Reform Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC

Mr. Speaker, I rise today on behalf of the constituents of Okanagan-Similkameen-Merritt to draw the attention of the House to the fact that the government has yet to take a stand with respect to the tensions between Taiwan and China.

Our nation is famous around the world in assisting with dispute resolution among nations. What are the Liberals doing to prevent a further increase in tensions? Already free movement in shipping lanes has been impeded. Trade throughout the Asia Pacific region has been disrupted.

The lack of Liberal leadership could tarnish Canada's hard earned international reputation. Canada must demonstrate leadership before conflict breaks out. The Liberals have no constructive policy, nothing to offer to help alleviate the tensions between Taiwan and China. Under the chaotic command of the Liberals, Canada's defence policy, foreign affairs policy, and international trade policy are in conflict.

This government should offer to help broker a resolution between Taiwan and China.

The BudgetStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

NDP

John Solomon NDP Regina—Lumsden, SK

Mr. Speaker, the 1996 federal budget is the same old Liberal approach. It has ignored poor and middle class Canadians.

This budget is the same old Liberal policy that cuts social programs. Canadians will see less services and higher taxes as the provinces struggle to deal with massive social program funding cuts. Saskatchewan alone will lose $110 per capita.

It is the same old Liberal policy that gives tax breaks to the wealthy. The Liberals passed Bill S-9 which gives wealthy Cana-

dian families tax breaks on U.S. assets and tax credits for donations to American universities. Meanwhile education funding is cut and the GST remains.

It is the same old Liberal policy that keeps the unemployment rate high. It is the same old Liberal policy that ignores small business. This past year small business created 100 per cent of all net new jobs in Canada but the budget left them out in the cold.

This budget stays the Liberal course of ignoring the needs of middle class and poor Canadians, ignoring fair taxation, job creation and adequate health and education funding.

Canada PostStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Speaker, recently I participated in a public hearing held on Prince Edward Island regarding the future role of Canada Post.

This meeting was organized to provide province-wide input and discussion on the review of Canada Post, in part because P.E.I. is being ignored by the review committee set up by the former minister.

Participants stressed the importance Canada Post plays with respect to our Canadian heritage when we as a country are struggling to redefine ourselves. Canada Post is an institution that operates in many communities throughout Canada. Its continued existence is essential, especially in rural communities where it shows the presence of the federal government and provides services which must be accessible to all Canadians.

I will be sending a summary report to the mandate review committee but at this stage participants reinforced their support for the continued existence of Canada Post and all the services it provides.

Social ProgramsStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Alex Shepherd Liberal Durham, ON

Mr. Speaker, I was pleased that the throne speech and the budget both mentioned the necessity of underpinning security and ensuring that social programs will be in place for future generations of Canadians.

The people of Durham expressed their concern for these programs, specifically the Canada pension plan, in three town hall meetings that I held recently.

They were very clear about the general direction of change. Most understood the shortcomings of the plan and how assumptions made in 1966 now significantly depart from reality. They wanted the assurance that changes would not affect those who have already made their retirement plans, the pensioners that are now receiving or soon to receive benefits.

They also took exception to governments, whether provincial or federal, assuming they could invest any reserve balances at their discretion to refinance their own deficits. They wanted the assurance that funds would be invested wisely at market rates, and they questioned the wisdom of allowing governments to make those decisions.

Canadians will continue to need a mandatory plan but the people of Durham want it managed better.

Unemployment Insurance ReformStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Bloc

Yvan Bernier Bloc Gaspé, QC

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, more than 2,500 people from the Gaspe Peninsula, the Lower St. Lawrence, New Brunswick and the Micmac nation met on the Campbellton bridge, in New Brunswick, to protest against the unemployment insurance reform.

This protest was aimed at expressing their frustration with the Liberal government, which is showing a total lack of understanding on this issue. The government must withdraw this bill that will hurt seasonal workers, among others. The government must go back to the drawing board and propose to the people of Canada and Quebec a reform that will reflect the new realities of the labour market.

Yesterday's protest shows the government, particularly the Deputy Prime Minister, that the people who condemn the unemployment insurance reform do it because they want justice and equity. These are not separatists, but men and women who cannot see the end of the tunnel.

Bill C-212Statements By Members

2:15 p.m.

Reform

Jake Hoeppner Reform Lisgar—Marquette, MB

Mr. Speaker, my private member's Bill C-212 proposes that the Canadian Wheat Board be audited annually by the Auditor General of Canada. It also proposes that the auditor general receive a monthly statement from the board for his inspection.

Canadians have been demanding more accountability from their government institutions. The auditor general has no jurisdiction over the wheat board and the wheat board is not even subject to the Access to Information Act.

Wheat board commissioners set their own pensions and those of their dependants and nobody knows that they are. Clearly this is not accountability.

I urge all members of the House to support this bill which will ensure farmers and Canadians that the board is operating in a more open and accountable manner. This will send a positive message to Canadians.

Job CreationOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, the government's budget strikes hard at the financing capabilities of the 19 venture capital firms of Canadian workers. The Minister of Finance is thus attacking job creation directly, because employee funds have assets of nearly $3 billion. More than $800 million has been invested in Canada's economy and has helped create and keep some 38,000 jobs in Quebec alone.

Since the government is doing so little to create jobs, how can it justify going on to attack a tool as effective in creating and maintaining jobs as the labour-sponsored venture capital funds, because they invest all their money in Canada's economic development?

Job CreationOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt as to the importance of these funds in creating jobs and there is no doubt as to the management capability of these funds.

That said, I have to point out that there is enough money in the funds for the next three years, that is, they have grown considerably, and the measures we have taken will not affect them. There is money available.

It was also agreed from the start that major incentives were needed to get these funds off the ground. Now that they are established, we think it important to lower the incentives in order to free the money for use elsewhere, specifically to create jobs for young people.

Job CreationOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, I would correct the minister and remind him that the fund set up by the CSN, for example, is a new one and has not had time to capitalize and really get off the ground. The blow dealt it by the Minister of Finance is extremely hard for such a fund to absorb; it could well cut it off in mid flight.

I would ask the minister how he explains his attack on the labour-sponsored venture capital funds, when he has not withdrawn the authorization given RRSPs-regular registered retirement savings plans-in January 1994 to invest 20 per cent of their funds abroad, promoting job creation, but abroad?

Job CreationOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, I am satisfied the new CSN fund, which we, the government helped develop, will grow hugely.

Furthermore, as regards the RRSPs and foreign investment, it must be said that the aim of RRSPs is not only investment in Canada but also the protection and expansion of pension funds to protect Canadians' pension plans.

In addition, Canada, and the province of Quebec, I must add, are dependent on foreign capital. It is therefore not in our interest to limit Canadians' ability to invest abroad, on one level, because we want to encourage foreigners to come and invest here at the same time.

Job CreationOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Roberval Québec

Bloc

Michel Gauthier BlocLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, it is important that we understand each other well, the Minister of Finance and I. Therefore, I ask him the following: How can his government-the government that is doing so little for job creation, I would remind him-how can it justify giving tax exemptions to people investing in RRSPs, who, through these RRSPs, are permitted to invest 20 per cent of their capital outside the country, who thus keep or create jobs outside the country, when this 20 per cent can go as high as 36 per cent through an investment in trust companies?

How does the Minister of Finance justify the hard blow to the labour-sponsored venture capital funds, which invest and ask only to invest all their money in keeping and creating jobs at home? They are trying to save and maintain our businesses. Is this not reason for him to change his mind?