House of Commons Hansard #23 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was labour.

Topics

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

In my opinion the yeas have it. I declare Motion No. 7 carried. I therefore declare Motions Nos. 11 to 17 carried.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The next question is on Motion No. 8. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

In my opinion the yeas have it. I declare the motion carried.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

We will now move to debate on Group No. 5.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Acadie—Bathurst New Brunswick

Liberal

Douglas Young LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

moved:

Motion No. 9

That Bill C-11, in Clause 50, be amended by replacing lines 38 and 39, on page 18, with the following:

"partment of National Revenue, the Department of Supply and Services or Canada Post, or the".

Motion No. 10

That Bill C-11, in Clause 76, be amended by a ) replacing line 12, on page 25, with the following:

"76. (1) Paragraph 33(2)( a ) of the Old Age Se-''; b ) replacing line 17, page 25, with the following: ``Canada or Canada Post, or to the Canada Employment and''; and c ) by adding after line 32, page 25, the following:

"(2) Paragraph 33(3)( a ) of the Act is replaced by the following: a ) the Minister of National Revenue or any person designated by the Minister of National Revenue for the purpose may, for any purpose relating to the administration of this Act, make available or allow to be made available to the Minister, or to any officer or employee in the Department of Human Resources Development designated by the Minister for the purpose, a report providing information available to the Minister of National Revenue with respect to any applicant or beneficiary or the spouse of any applicant or beneficiary; and''.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Kenora—Rainy River Ontario

Liberal

Bob Nault LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, I will not spend a lot of time on these two motions because they are exactly the same as the last grouping we considered.

These are again just technical amendments. I want to read for the record what they are and give a short explanation of Motions Nos. 9 and 10. That will explain to opposition members what they are for. If they would like a discussion a little more far ranging than these two motions, I suppose that is their prerogative. However, I do not want to delay the passage of the bill any further.

Clause 50 is being amended in order to take into account a change made to a section of the Children's Special Allowances Act due to the passage of Bill C-54.

The House will recall that Bill C-54 is a technical amendments bill passed in the last session which amended the Old Age Security Act, the Canada pension plan, the Children's Special Allowances Act and the Unemployment Insurance Act. Bill C-54, adopted by Parliament in the last session, already incorporates this wording change. This is another instance of pairing. When we get there, clause 104, which contains conditional aspects of this wording change to the HRD bill, will be deleted. We did that under the previous group. We have already done that.

In Motion No. 10 clause 76 is being amended in three places. It calls for the addition of a subclause to clause 76 to reflect the fact that there will now be two sections to clause 76 rather than a single clause.

Proposal (b) incorporates a change made to the section of the Old Age Security Act due to the passage of Bill C-54, the same technical bill I mentioned earlier.

Proposal (c) incorporates a further change to the Old Age Security Act due to the passage of Bill C-54 as well. Since Bill C-54 predates the HRD bill, this proposal also updates the title of the responsible minister to reflect the title of the Minister of Human Resources Development.

All of the above proposals reflect an instance of pairing again. The conditional aspect of this change is included in section 104 of the HRD bill. Section 104 will be deleted when we get there.

There we have it, the very dry and somewhat complex discussion of why we have had to make some changes. In defence of the government as it relates to the comments of my colleague from the Reform Party, it is pretty difficult to give her these amendments too far in advance because when the House prorogued it took time for the bill to be looked at technically by the experts in the department to make sure it reflected the new reality.

It is not our intention to be secretive or to be undemocratic. These things take on a life of their own. I assure the member that she can take my word for it and the word of the government that these are just technical in nature and do not have any implication with regard to the solid content of the bill and what the department will be all about.

I take this opportunity to thank the House for taking the time and being patient in listening to the explanation of these amendments, which are necessary to make the bill reflective of reality.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:05 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC

Mr. Speaker, the two amendments are very special in their effect. On the one hand, they will be reducing the available information that could be given to people on such matters as the amount of a benefit or the status of a recipient. On the other hand, they are increasing the number of people to whom information may be made available in the government. There is even talk of adding Canada Post to those with access to records.

Canada Post, it must be kept in mind, is no longer a government body per se, but rather a crown agency with considerable leeway, and its mandate is in the process of being reviewed. We could find ourselves in the situation of giving access to a virtually privatized organization, which could surely create significant problems.

What is involved here is the ability to trace mail, am item sent to an individual, where there was a need to find out from Canada Post why it had not been deliverable, or to what address it had finally been delivered. There is something a bit dangerous in this, I think.

As well, the delegation to the provinces of access to certain information is being removed. The door is being slammed in the provinces' faces, while at the same time being opened to a number of organizations. The public is being denied the right to certain information, while it is being granted to a number of federal bodies.

I think amendments of this type are along the same line as the ones discussed previously, or in other words that the government is giving itself even more opportunities, and the individual is seeing the confidentiality of certain information concerning him or her being eroded a little bit more. We must always be on guard in such situations. With modern communications technology, we are intruding on people's privacy more and more, and it is not necessarily appropriate to do so.

The official opposition will be opposing this proposed amendment.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Reform

Daphne Jennings Reform Mission—Coquitlam, BC

Mr. Speaker, with these two amendments I have the same problem I had with the initial clauses. That is why Reform put forward amendments to begin with.

A concern I have is that certain things are done and we do not know about them. I put forward the amendment that we would have an annual report for a very good reason. I hope the government considers that in Bill C-11.

As well, I feel strongly that we do not bypass provinces or appear to bypass provinces. The legislation appears to do that. The wording of it is definitely there. Those are my concerns.

With these two, the government has more opportunity to intervene. This is the concern I as a member of Parliament should be raising. Motion No. 9 adds Canada Post to the list.

I have not yet been answered by the member from the government on what impact this would have. We have had no explanation in the House on how it would impact on us. This should be explained to the House. It concerns me.

Until I hear the explanations clearly, I hesitate to speak in favour of Motions Nos. 9 and 10. In this case the Reform Party would oppose them.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Is the House ready for the question?

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The question is on Motion No. 9. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

In my opinion the yeas have it. I declare Motion No. 9 adopted on division.

The next question is on Motion No. 10. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?