As indicated by the chief government whip, the recorded division on the motion stands deferred until Monday, April 15, 1996 at 6.30 p.m., at which time the bells to call in the members will be sounded for not more than 15 minutes.

Department Of Human Resources Development ActThe Royal Assent

4:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I have the honour to inform the House that a communication from Rideau Hall has been received as follows:

Rideau Hall Ottawa,

March 28, 1996

Sir,

I have the honour to inform you that the right Hon. Antonio Lamer, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy Governor General, will proceed to the Senate chamber today, the 28th day of March, 1996, at 4.10 p.m., for the purpose of giving Royal Assent to certain bills.

Yours sincerely,

Deputy Secretary, Policy, Program and Protocol Anthony P. Smyth

A message was delivered by the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod as follows:

Mr. Speaker, the Honourable Deputy to the Governor General desires the immediate attendance of this honourable House in the chamber of the honourable the Senate.

Accordingly, Mr. Speaker with the House went up to the Senate chamber.

And being returned:

Department Of Human Resources Development ActThe Royal Assent

4:25 p.m.

The Speaker

I have the honour to inform the House that when the House went up to the Senate Chamber the Deputy Governor General was pleased to give, on Her Majesty's behalf, royal assent to the following bills:

Bill C-2, an act to amend the Judges Act-Chapter 2.

Bill C-10, an act to provide borrowing authority for the fiscal year beginning on April 1, 1996-Chapter 3.

Bill C-21, an act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 1996-Chapter 4.

Bill C-22, an act for granting to Her Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of Canada for the financial year ending March 31, 1997-Chapter 5.

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Oxford-Pipelines; the hon. member for Bourassa-The Department of Citizenship and Immigration.

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-18, an act to establish the Department of Health and to amend and repeal certain acts, as reported (with amendment) from the committee.

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

The Speaker

There are five motions in amendment standing on the Notice Paper for the report stage of Bill C-18, an act to establish the Department of Health and to amend and repeal certain acts.

Motion No. 1 will be debated and voted on separately.

Motions Nos. 2 and 4 will be grouped for debate. A vote on Motion No. 2 applies to Motion No. 4.

Motions Nos. 3 and 5 will be grouped for debate but voted on separately.

I will now put Motion No. 1 to the House.

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Andy Scott Liberal Fredericton—York—Sunbury, NB

moved:

Motion No. 1

That Bill C-18, in Clause 4, be amended by striking out line 7, on page 2, and substituting the following: a ) the administration of such Acts of Parliament and of orders or regulations of the Government of Canada as are not by law assigned to any other department of the Government of Canada or any minister of that Government relating in any way to the health of the people of Canada; a .1) the promotion and the preservation of the''.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to propose an amendment to clause 4 of Bill C-18, formerly Bill C-95. The amendment basically reincorporates a clause from the current Department of National Health and Welfare Act, an act that dates back to 1944 and has served Canadians well for half a century.

As the House knows, over time drafting styles of legislation change. That is why Bill C-95, as it was originally tabled, adopted a more contemporary way of describing the Minister of Health's responsibilities.

The drafters of the legislation on many occasions have argued to me and others that basically Bill C-95 as it was tabled at second reading would not have changed the responsibilities of the Minister of Health for the administration of acts of Parliament. However, others are less convinced.

First, I will establish exactly what it is that this amendment proposes to do. It would insert in subclause 4(2) after "without restricting the generality of subsection (1) the minister's powers, duties and functions relating to health include the following matters", I would be inserting "the administration of such acts of Parliament and of orders or regulations of the Government of Canada as are not by law assigned to any other department of the Government of Canada or any minister of that Government relating in any way to the health of the people of Canada".

The amendment is proposed in order to eliminate any apprehension that the government is trying to avoid being held accountable for its actions in administering legislation. A similar provision already exists in the current department of National Health and Welfare Act.

The reference to social security and the welfare of the people of Canada has been eliminated in view of the creation of the Department of Human Resources Development. This provision had been eliminated to improve the drafting of the bill. It was considered redundant because subclause 4(1) already had established the general mandate of the minister with regard to health and moreover specific legislation such as the Food and Drugs Act states that the minister is also responsible for its application.

However, many Canadians who have contacted HIV through blood transfusions have indicated that they fear that the effect of this omission will be to reduce the accountability of the minister with regard to the legislation it administers and in particular with regard to the Food and Drugs Act.

In fact, Ms. Lori Stoltz, a lawyer who represented HIV blood transfused patients at the Krever inquiry has pointed out to me that in her opinion the bill would remove responsibility from the Minister of Health.

We must be very sensitive to the concerns of people who have become ill after using a product that they had all reason to believe was absolutely safe. Rather than entering into a legal debate of whether the elimination of the previous clause would have in fact reduced the accountability of the minister, it is much more constructive, in my opinion, to take the action to alleviate their concerns.

The purpose of Bill C-18 is to confirm the creation of the Department of Health and define the mandate of the minister responsible for the department, not to limit the risk of liability of the government.

The pith and substance of the bill is contained in subclause 4(1). It provides that the Minister of Health is responsible for all matters over which Parliament has jurisdiction relating to the promotion and preservation of the health of Canadians.

The bill recognizes the crucial role played by the Department of Health in protecting the public against risks to health. This includes the evaluation of drugs and medical devices, ensuring these therapeutic products are safe for public consumption and that they do what the manufacturers claim they will do.

The disastrous situation which resulted from the transmission of HIV through the blood system must not be allowed to occur again. Our efforts to maintain a high quality, responsive and affordable health system is being strengthened by the creation of the new Department of Health and the implementing legislation for Health Canada ensures that the department's resources and activities are devoted to the policy and funding challenges facing our national health protection system.

The bill ensures that the department will continue to work closely with all health stakeholders and the people of Canada. Health Canada will provide national leadership and remain a full and active partner in all matters concerning the health of Canadians. For these reasons it is proposed to make it clear that the responsibilities of the Minister of Health include the administration of legislation that is related to health.

The amendment is put forward to reassure Canadians that where a debate existed whether the removal of certain provisions in the old act would have the effect of removing responsibility from the

minister. Rather than debate which opinion is right, the government has decided appropriately to defer to the safer position and reinsert the original wording from the National Health and Welfare Act. I am pleased to make this amendment.

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

The Speaker

I omitted to mention at the beginning of debate that all interventions will be 10 minutes with no questions and comments.

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Reform

Grant Hill Reform Macleod, AB

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-95, as it was originally brought to the House, seemed to me a very straightforward bill. I wondered why we would spend a lot of time debating what seemed like a name change.

As the watchdog for this bill I had already gone over it very carefully and felt the minister had full accountability and full responsibility for all matters relating to health. However, concerns were brought to my attention by the fine tooth comb experts. They came up with a potential concern, a potential problem that related to ministerial accountability. The motion by the member for Fredericton-York-Sunbury would take care of any question on that issue.

Ministerial accountability is not redundant. It is absolutely mandatory. Anyone who tried to change that would be on very shaky ground. The Krever inquiry has brought to the fore the concern about ministerial accountability. This inquiry shows that our regulatory system can have flaws, that those dispensing to the Canadian public can have flaws. We are actually at a state now where the Krever inquiry is being held up by legal challenges coming from a host of sources.

Ministerial accountability is profoundly important. For that reason I support the inclusion of this clause in Bill C-95, and I will be so recommending to my caucus.

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

The Speaker

Is the House ready for the question?

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

The Speaker

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion No. 1 agreed to.)

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Eglinton—Lawrence Ontario

Liberal

Joe Volpe LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health

moved:

Motion No. 2

That Bill C-18 be amended by adding, immediately after line 18, on page 9, the following new Clause:

"Government Organization Act (Federal Agencies)

"23.3 The definition "Minister" in section 66 of the Government Organization Act (Federal Agencies) is replaced by the following:

"Minister" means the Minister of Health."

Motion No. 4

That Bill C-18 be amended by deleting Clause 36.

Mr. Speaker, these are purely technical amendments to Bill C-18. As other colleagues have indicated, it was formerly known as Bill C-95. These two amendments have become necessary primarily due to the reintroduction of the bill following the prorogation of Parliament.

The Government Organization Act has now become law and as a result it requires two amendments to Bill C-18. It is proposed that a new clause, subsection 23.3, be added to indicate that in the Government Organization Act, the word "minister" does in fact mean the Minister of Health.

As you will know, Mr. Speaker, previously the department was known as the department of national health and welfare and the minister was known as the minister thereof. This amendment is changes the name of the minister to be consistent with the rest of the bill.

Motion No. 4 deletes clause 36, which is a conditional amendment that has the same effect when referring to former Bill C-65. The Government Organization Act amends the statutes that establish 15 federal agencies and dissolves 7 federal organizations. As far as Health Canada is concerned, this dissolves the board of trustees of the Queen Elizabeth II Canadian fund to aid in research on the diseases of children. It does not eliminate the funding. That continues under the administration of the Medical Research Council. It does eliminate the board of trustees.

That is really all there is to say about these two amendments. I look forward to speedy passage thereof.

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

The Speaker

Is the House ready for the question?

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

The Speaker

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Department Of Health ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motions Nos. 2 and 4 agreed to.)