Debates of June 13th, 1996

Cultural Organizations

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

We learned this morning in Le Devoir that the Department of Foreign Affairs would reduce by almost 60 per cent its assistance to cultural organizations for their international tours.

How can the foreign affairs minister explain the decision of his department to cut by almost 60 per cent its assistance with regard to the exportation of Canadian cultural products?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to say that we support culture as a basic element of Canada's foreign policy. However, we do have to make cuts to stay within our budget, and these cuts affect all activities within my department.

At the same time, I would like to find new approaches with regard to culture. We invited the private sector to form a partnership with us. Recently, there was a huge Canadian celebration in Sao Paulo that was paid for entirely by the private sector. This celebration, the purpose of which was to show the strength and excellence of Canadian culture, cost $2 million. Several groups were involved, including some from Quebec.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, according to the same source, namely Le Devoir , Quebec companies are more affected than others by the minister's cuts.

Does the minister realize that, by making these cuts, he is compromising the very existence of several cultural groups that are known worldwide and that, in the short term, it will be difficult for him to show Canadian culture outside the country?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, let me set this straight. The purpose of the involvement of the Department of Foreign Affairs in culture is not to provide basic subsidies to groups, it is to promote Canadian culture abroad. We do it in a variety of ways. We provide support for groups to travel. We provide money for exhibitions in which we can demonstrate the good quality of our cultural products.

We are now developing new ways to bring the private sector in to work as partners with us. A good example is that this fall we are opening a new Canadian cultural centre in Paris. It will provide a permanent exhibition and display area using the latest multimedia and video techniques. It will give Canadian cultural groups a broad audience.

That is the way we promote culture. That is why we are trying to find the most innovative ways working with the private sector and the cultural groups. The judgment cannot be made based simply upon the number of grants given to groups. It is what is done to promote the entire field of culture abroad.

Aboriginal Affairs

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, rural municipalities in Saskatchewan receive a one time payment of 22.5 times previous years taxation revenues for any additions to treaty lands. This is to compensate for tax revenue losses and provision of municipal services upon creation of these Indian reserves.

The rural municipalities are being offered only five times for specific land claims, a loss of tens of millions of dollars to the municipalities. My question for the minister of Indian affairs is why?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, just prior to the last government's demise, the minister sent to some a letter which had to be cancelled saying that the ministry would go 20 times taxes. If expanded across the country, this would cost approximately an extra $50 million. If the hon. member is prepared to put an

amendment to our next budget asking for an additional $50 million, I am sure we would support it.

[John Duncan, Reform, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, these land claims are supposed to be a cost borne by all Canadians, not by rural municipalities in Saskatchewan.

The minister is offloading federal responsibility on to the municipalities. They had a previously negotiated agreement. The minister has usurped that agreement and is now threatening to create tax exempt reserve lands over the objections of the rural municipalities unless they agree to this unfair five times formula.

Why is the minister bullying the municipalities? Why is he offloading federal responsibility on to their backs?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, we are trying in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta to go back and deal fairly with treaties because there were wrong counts. This is the party that said we should deal fairly with the aboriginal people and we have done that. The remaining issue is the tax issue.

The Reform Party which says that we have to be fiscally prudent is saying to the government that it wants an extra $50 million. This cannot be done just in Saskatchewan. It has to be done in downtown Vancouver and in Halifax as well. If the Reform Party is saying that, then rather than hiding behind this rhetoric, when we are doing the budget next year, stand up and say so.

Taxation

[Alex Shepherd, Liberal, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

The Reform Party at its convention last weekend proposed a flat tax, although it is clear that many of them did not understand what it meant. The Reform Party thought that taxing the middle class and giving to the rich would be a fresh start for Canadians.

Can the minister comment on this policy of Robin Hood in reverse, taxing the lower income workers while giving to the rich, and what is he doing to bring more fairness into the income tax system?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is asking me to comment on the tax policy of the Reform Party. I am afraid he is asking me to comment on the indecipherable but I will attempt to make some sense of what appeared at the Reform convention to be a great deal of incoherent and inconsistent meandering around the subject.

The flat tax has been with us for a long time. In fact a number of Liberal Party members have examined this issue in considerable depth. At the same time-

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

This is out of order.

[Some hon. members]

Order.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I must say, Mr. Speaker, they are in particularly good voice.

[Some hon. members]

Order.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, I judged the question to be a valid question in the sense that it does deal with the minister's responsibility of taxation.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay East, BC]

A Reform policy?

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

He should cross the floor.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I would ask all members to please listen to the answer. I give the floor to the hon. Minister of Finance.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I was attempting to explain the Reform Party's tax policy. The difficulty the rest of the country has in understanding it is that the type of debate we have just heard is what happened at their convention.

The flat tax has been around for a long time. The Liberal Party looked at it. Some of our members were pioneers in it. A number of Republican Party candidates in the United States have dealt with it. They have consistently run into the same problems in that it is very difficult to come up with a flat tax which does not benefit the rich at the expense of the poor, or it is difficult to come up with one that does not have so many exemptions and such a great deal of complexity that it vitiates its very purpose.

The fact is that-

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Louis-Hébert.

Tran Trieu Quan

[Philippe Paré, Bloc, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Taking the whole world by surprise, the public ministry of Vietnam has decided to bring Tran Trieu Quan before an appeal court at a hearing to be held on June 17. Meanwhile, Mr. Quan continues to be shackled every day from 3 p.m. until the following morning.

Given the rather timid reaction by Canada to the treatment being afforded Mr. Quan, can the minister at least make a commitment

that the Canadian consul in Hô Chi Minh will attend Mr. Quan's hearing, in order to ensure that the rights of this Canadian citizen are respected?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the comment by the hon. member is not accurate. When our consul in Vietnam visited Mr. Quan and discovered that manacles had been placed on his legs, we immediately issued a very strong protest to the minister of foreign affairs and directly to the Vietnamese officials. We have taken a very strong stand against that.

The fact that the appeal is about to be held is a useful sign. We have been waiting for the appeal to be held. We have been able to exercise pressures by making a number of visits and a number of representations. The appeal in the case is proceeding which is the outcome we have been trying to achieve.

We will certainly provide all the support, legal assistance and presence we can to Mr. Quan during in this period and assure he has the full support of the Canadian government in terms of giving him the kind of presence required.