House of Commons Hansard #66 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was senate.

Topics

Controlled Drugs And Substances ActGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Eglinton—Lawrence Ontario

Liberal

Joe Volpe LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Health

Mr. Speaker, there were a couple of points raised which need to be addressed.

First and foremost in the hon. member's presentation, we ought to be clear on the lines of communication and the lines of responsibility. If it is his intention to have the department report directly to the House of Commons, that is an innovative way for establishing lines of accountability.

The reason the minister has been charged with certain responsibilities is that he is always accountable to this House and to the hon. member in debate. That is a mainstay of our democratic process. I do not think we can dismiss that as being somehow anti-democratic. It is a very important element in the lines of accountability. The Minister of Health is always accountable, not only to the House but to the electorate.

Second, I am a little concerned that the member would take umbrage with the fact that there is an industrial application of hemp that the department is leaving open. It is a little bit of a problem because members of his party, members of the other opposition parties and the general public have been suggesting for quite some time that we ought to at least give it an opportunity to demonstrate its value.

The member quite rightly reads the amendment. It is not sneaky nor is it some surreptitious, vague wording. It deals specifically with the stalk of hemp and with its fibres. It does not deal with anything else. It is the element that is the least likely to contain hallucinogenic qualities.

If we open the door for the industrial use of a product that has been used by others in what many might suggest is a fashion not so far tolerated but at least proven to have some merit, that is consistent with what the Reform Party has been asking for all the way along. It is not an amendment that has been sneaked in. It is one that has been debated publicly for quite some time.

In that regard as well, the House should know that what the members of the official opposition and the Reform Party have suggested, that there be a health committee review of Canada's drug policies, that is being undertaken. In fact, the health committee has already set in place a schedule for reviewing the entire process starting in September when the House resumes sitting.

I take what the member has said in a positive fashion, but I do not think that members of the House should be confused as to the direction, purpose and openness of the bill as it is before the House. I encourage concurrence.

Controlled Drugs And Substances ActGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Reform

Grant Hill Reform Macleod, AB

Mr. Speaker, definitely I want to reply with vigour.

The issue which the member has missed completely is whether there is some risk with hemp. There is a risk with hemp: detection of the illegal plant. This should not have come through the back door. It should not have come through the Senate. It should not have come through as an amendment. It should not have come through quietly. It should have come through openly. The member sitting across the way knows full well that did not happen. I am disappointed and I believe the Canadian public will be disappointed.

Controlled Drugs And Substances ActGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Is the House ready for the question?

Controlled Drugs And Substances ActGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Controlled Drugs And Substances ActGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Controlled Drugs And Substances ActGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Controlled Drugs And Substances ActGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

An hon. member

On division.

Controlled Drugs And Substances ActGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

I declare the motion carried.

(Motion agreed to, amendments read the second time and concurred in.)

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Brant Ontario

Liberal

Jane Stewart Liberalfor the Minister of Transport

moved:

That the amendment made by the Senate to Bill C-20, an act respecting the commercialization of civil air navigation services, be read the second time and concurred in.

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Hamilton West Ontario

Liberal

Stan Keyes LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, this amendment is a technical amendment that does not affect any of the provisions in the bill. It is only a matter of timing.

Prior to the amendment all sections of the bill were to become effective upon royal assent. The intent of the amendment is to make three sections, sections 11, 13 and 100, come into force on the transfer date, which is expected to be 60 days after royal assent.

Section 11 pertains to the designation to the international civil aviation organization of Nav Canada as the Canadian authority for air traffic control services and aeronautical information services.

Section 13 provides Nav Canada with the right to plan and manage the airspace subject to the governor in council's right to make regulations respecting the classification and use of that airspace.

Section 100 is a consequential amendment to the Aeronautics Act which removes the authority of the Minister of Transport and the Minister of National Defence to impose charges for air navigation services.

If this authority were to be removed prior to the transfer date, it would have implications for the revenue stream of Nav Canada in its first few days of operation. This would be the case because of section 33 of the bill, which states: "The charges imposed by the corporation on or after the transfer date for air navigation services shall be the charges that were imposed by the minister immediately before the transfer date".

If the minister did not have the authority to impose the charges on the day before the transfer, Nav Canada would have no charges in place as it began operations. Nav Canada would be able to impose its own charges within two weeks, but the gap and the degree of uncertainty associated with the process would complicate its initial financing.

The commercialization of the air navigation system will provide significant benefits to Canadians. I urge my colleagues in this place to support this amendment as a way of ensuring this initiative takes off to the best possible start.

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC

Mr. Speaker, the other place sent us back Bill C-20 with some rather technical amendments. I take this opportunity to say that, the day after the Pearson airport legislation was killed, we have yet another example of the uselessness of the other place, which can even be a nuisance. Yesterday, a House of unelected people blocked a very important government bill. We should reflect on this.

As for Bill C-20, the proposed amendments are of a very technical nature. The government's excuse for not having moved these amendments earlier in this House, either at third reading or report stage, is that the Senate is there to do the work. How much did it cost to let the other place debate the issue, including the costs generated by the additional delays?

Today, the session is coming to an end. We are forced to pass bills while taking into account many elements and deadlines. Had it not been forced to send the bill to the other place, the House could simply have passed it at the end of debate here, and the government would have been accountable for it.

And had there been omissions such as the one corrected by the Senate, the government would have had to take responsibility for them. We should not rely on a House which is not accountable to Canadians to correct mistakes.

This example, along with yesterday's much more catastrophic end of the Pearson bill, shows once again a lack of seriousness on the part of the government. Let me tell you that, regardless of one's opinion on the Pearson bill, it was neither flattering nor pleasant to see that an unelected house could kill a bill that had been debated and passed here. Even though we were against this legislation and felt that many changes were needed, including the establishment of a commission of inquiry, the fact remains that this is a rather telling episode.

I think it is important to remember the reasons why the Bloc Quebecois will vote against Bill C-20. During the clause by clause examination in committee and the debate at third reading, we proposed amendments regarding safety that we thought were very constructive.

These amendments were intended to ensure that the new agency responsible for managing air navigation would be required to give priority to ensuring the safety of carriers. The intention was to have this obligation included in the legislation in the form of a preamble that would have served as an interpretation clause. The government did not yield to our arguments in this regard. Neither did the Senate. There is no recommendation along these lines.

We were not listened to. When the government does not listen, that may be what it chooses to do, it may think that this is not the right course of action. But as for the Senate, that is a concern they should have had. They could have presented us with something more useful than the three tiny amendments we have before us today.

The other point the Bloc Quebecois emphasized, and which was ignored, concerned the representation of small carriers on the board of directors of Nav Canada. We think that a few years down the road, it will be realized that this decision will have significant negative economic effects on a number of outlying regions in Canada, where there are carriers specializing in chartered flights, tourist flights, and utilitarian flights, and not necessarily regular passenger flights.

It is true that the composition of Nav Canada's board of directors includes almost all the stakeholders in the economic sector concerned, but we feel that large carriers are over-represented on the board, to the exclusion of small carriers. We think that will have an impact on charges. When it comes to deciding how charges will be levied, the voices that will be heard the loudest will be those of large carriers, and the small carriers will be lost in the shuffle.

It must be borne in mind that there was a need to rationalize in this industrial sector, a need to organize so as to reduce costs, and a good many of these objectives will probably be met by Bill C-20. What we would have liked to see was the pendulum swinging in the other direction in order to guarantee safety, something not found in this bill.

It seems to me that, at this final stage, that the Senate amendments do nothing to change the basic question. There has been no additional important element introduced by the Senate. The bill, in the opinion of the Bloc Quebecois, is identical to the way it was on third reading. For these reasons we will be voting against it, in order to let people know that the Bloc Quebecois feels safety ought to have more importance attached to it than the government has done in this bill.

We hope there will be no unfortunate accidents to prove us right.

We hope this will never happen, but we believe that, even when the bill is implemented, at least if there was no will to change it in the text, in connection with the administration of Nav Canada, there will be representations by the government to ensure that this is a concern in the day to day administration of Nav Canada, and that costs will not be the only concern.

To conclude, after this debate at every stage, I believe a number of members of this House, those on the committee with which I was associated at the end of the process, have worked very hard. I feel they have produced good legislation. It is unfortunate that they have not heeded the arguments raised, for the most part about safety, for if they had we could have joined with the government. I feel it would have been worthwhile, and important, for there to have been unanimity in the House on a bill of this type.

House CommitteesGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think you would find unanimous consent in the House for the following motion:

That the Standing Committee on Human Rights and the Status of Persons with Disabilities be authorized to travel to Toronto, Ontario from October 7 to 9, 1996, for the purpose of attending the National Conference on Disability and Work and holding a hearing, and that the necessary staff do accompany the Committee.

The opposition parties were consulted, and I think there will be unanimous consent.

House CommitteesGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

It is agreed?

House CommitteesGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to.)

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Reform

Jim Gouk Reform Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC

Mr. Speaker, I do not consider myself entering into debate because I agree with the government's position and the parliamentary secretary.

While I do not always agree with him, certainly this time it was both accurate and succinct. I hope he keeps those qualities in future debate as well, particularly on issues where we tend to differ.

As seems to be the norm with this bill and several others, I find the few comments I want to make relating to the previous speaker from the Bloc Quebecois. He talks about the lack of safety in the air navigation system now with Nav Canada taking over.

I have been a commercial pilot and also an air traffic controller for 22 years. The same people will be running the system after as before. We have in our system among the best in the world and it is safe.

I find it an interesting contradiction that the hon. member who just spoke talks about how the Senate hinders the process of this House. Then in the same breath he turns around and says the Senate should have listened and made amendments according to what the Bloc was looking for. It is starting to sound like the government with regard to the Pearson deal where it said it had to cancel it because it is too rich and it does not want to pay any compensation because they would not have made any money anyway. I am still trying to figure that one out. I bet the liberals are too when they stop and actually listen to themselves.

I found it very interesting that the Bloc is to vote against this legislation. This legislation is not being voted on today. The only thing that is being voted on is the amendment to the legislation which the Bloc said it would support. It is a bit confusing, the Liberals are a bit confusing. Thank God it is summer and we are all going home soon.

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Is the House ready for the question?

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

All those opposed will please say nay.

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.