Debates of Oct. 29th, 1997

Human Resources Development

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, whenever our man wants to report to me, he can report to me, and the American envoy will report to the President of the United States.

I do not think APEC should be mixed up with this problem. We are in touch with the two gentlemen doing the work. They will report to the President of the United States and to myself in due course.

Tobacco Advertising

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, tobacco advertisers have quite a new friend in our health minister as he allows tobacco ads to be put on racing cars again. He does not think it is a very big deal. Let me read what one of the tobacco advertisers had to say. “This Formula One car is the most powerful advertising space in the world. It will carry your brand to 1.8 billion TV viewers in 102 countries”.

Since the health minister has publicly admitted that he knows this decision is not right, why has he caved in to the tobacco companies?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I hope the hon. member knows better than to swallow the ad copy of advertisers. Let us instead look at the facts of the case.

The government committed last April to amend the Tobacco Act in order to permit Formula One racing to happen in Canada. As the hon. member knows, this is a government that respects its commitments. We are going to respect it. We are going to introduce an amendment in the House of Commons to change the Tobacco Act to that effect.

Let me also point out that Formula One races last 90 minutes more or less. The Tobacco Act works 365 days a year to discourage smoking in this country.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the letter they sent in April was a stupid idea then and it is a stupid idea now. The minister actually admitted in public that he is uncomfortable with this decision.

It is interesting that the health ministers of England, Germany and France were also uncomfortable with race car ads. What did they do? They stopped them and their Grand Prix races are just fine today.

Why did the minister cave in to tobacco companies so that the health of our youth is affected?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we are respecting a commitment. The health of our youth, when it comes to smoking, will be protected by the $100 million the government is going to spend over the next five years on a tobacco reduction strategy. That is the way to get kids to stop smoking. That is the way to prevent young people from starting. That is the effective measure the government is going to take.

Prison System

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General of Canada.

The Correctional Service of Canada and the warden of the Leclerc penitentiary joined forces to try to calm our concerns about the unthinkable situation Mr. Deslauriers has put himself in. It was all very well for the Correctional Service to say that it was aware of Mr. Deslauriers' business activities, but a serious problem of ethics remains.

Is it not a serious error in judgment for the head of a penitentiary to own and, more importantly, manage a hotel two feet away from a bikers clubhouse, when we know—

[The Speaker]

The Solicitor General of Canada.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is very important to point out that yesterday the members from the Bloc made some serious allegations. They referred to this hotel as a haven for biker gangs and Hell's Angels.

We have worked diligently since yesterday to find out if we could confirm that. We have called the Sûreté du Québec, the RCMP, the municipality and the mayor. The allegations that were put have not been established. I think it is shameful that a 30 year veteran of CSC would be put under that light.

[Richard Marceau, Bloc, Charlesbourg, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can the solicitor general allow the Correctional Service of Canada to permit the head of a penitentiary to put himself in such a vulnerable position vis-à-vis a biker gang? Does acceptance of this situation not indicate serious negligence?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it has to be established that the issue is whether the hotel we are talking about is a haven for biker gangs. It is not. Four very reputable law enforcement agencies have established that is not the case. I think it does a disservice to a 30 year veteran of the correction service to make such allegations.

Airbus

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, RCMP Staff Sergeant Fraser Fiegenwald, the government's fall guy in the Airbus scandal, quit the force today. Millions of dollars were doled out to settle Mulroney's legal bills but the government refused to pay a penny toward Staff Sergeant Fiegenwald's legal bills. Someone is responsible and must be held accountable for the $3 million Airbus scandal.

I ask the Prime Minister, who is the next target? Who is the fall guy that has been lined up to take the blame and to protect the Liberal government and the former justice minister?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member undoubtedly knows that Staff Sergeant Fiegenwald decided to resign voluntarily from the force today.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Edmonton West, AB]

That led to a decision by the RCMP to discontinue its internal investigation against the actions of Staff Sergeant Fiegenwald. I do not think it would be appropriate to say anything else about the matter at this time.

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we have reached the Liberal utopia of absolutely no accountability.

The Liberals spent millions of dollars fighting Mulroney and millions more to pay for his legal bills. But they would not pay a single cent for Staff Sergeant Fiegenwald's legal bills and they drove him from the force. Is this Liberal Airbus justice?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the government settled the damages for Mr. Mulroney because a superior court judge in the province of Quebec said we had to. It was binding arbitration.

Prison System

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Solicitor General of Canada.

The solicitor general is telling us that he is prepared to accept the situation the director of the Laval-des-Rapides penitentiary put himself in.

Given the biker gangs' persuasion tactics, is the minister not somewhat concerned about his penitentiary director owning a hotel next door to the Hell's Angels clubhouse, whose members are aware of the fact and could exert pressure on him?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I would bring to the member's attention that the director we are talking about just recently transferred 12 biker offenders from his institution to maximum security. Two Hell's Angels challenged that transfer. Last Friday the court found in favour of the director and the biker gang members were transferred to maximum security. I do not think that suggests he is in league with the biker gangs.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister should understand that the prison director's error in judgment lies not in allowing in two, ten or a dozen Hell's Angels. That is not the point. The error in judgment is owning a hotel beside the clubhouse and being subject to constant pressure from a highly criminal element that is not shy about making itself heard.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I can only say after the fact that it has not been established that the hotel is a hangout for biker gangs. In fact, the RCMP, the municipality and the mayor of the community have all said that. It is very unfair to that gentleman that these people would impugn his reputation with nothing more than that.

Canada Pension Plan

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the latest report of the chief actuary for the Canada pension plan shows that under the finance minister's CPP pyramid scheme, our children and their children will get only a 1.8% return for a lifetime of CPP investment.

How can the minister disagree with his own actuary that he is shafting every young person in this country?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the chief actuary said that if the federal government and the provinces did not act that the premiums would have gone to 14.4%. We acted and as a result of that they will be capped at 9.9% There is no cost-free way of solving this problem.

Reform Party members have an obligation to tell Canadians how they would handle a $600 billion liability. If they are not prepared to do that, then they should admit that they are going to renege on an obligation to working Canadians and those who have already retired.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are noticing that every time the minister is asked to justify his pyramid scheme he changes the subject. He wants to talk about anything but his own plan.

Let us talk about the $600 billion unfunded liability. There is a Liberal-Tory national debt of $600 billion that is already crippling our children's future. Now the minister admits that the CPP puts them another $600 billion in the hole. Young Canadians are being saddled with a second national debt.

Will the finance minister admit—

[The Speaker]

The Minister of Finance.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, for the first time in two years of debate the Reform Party finally admits that there is an existing liability of $600 billion.

Last night in committee, with the leader of the Reform Party at the table, there was an expectation that instead of sound bytes and political rhetoric, Reform Party members would tell us how they intend to deal with it. They refused to do so. For two hours Reform members gave us smoke and mirrors.

Tell us, how much longer are you going to try to flog it by young Canadians? When are you going to come—