House of Commons Hansard #36 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was treaty.

Topics

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

The Chairman

All those opposed will please say nay.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

The Chairman

In my opinion the yeas have it.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

An hon. member

On division.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

The Chairman

I declare the amendment carried. (Amendment agreed to)

(Clause 10, as amended, agreed to)

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

The Chairman

Shall clause 11 carry?

(On clause 11)

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Kilger Liberal Stormont—Dundas, ON

Mr. Speaker, I believe the government has an amendment to this clause.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Winnipeg South Centre Manitoba

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Chairman, as I indicated in my speech during second reading stage, when we looked at this clause we wanted to absolutely ensure that the charter requirement is absolutely honoured. I therefore move:

That Bill C-22, in clause 11, be amended by replacing lines 13 to 16 on page 5 with the following:

Application for Court Order

“(2) If a person objects to providing or fails to provide any requested document or information within the specified time, the minister may apply to a judge of a superior court or the Federal Court-Trial Division for an order requiring the person to provide it,

Notice of Hearing

(3) The minister shall give the person at least seven days notice of the hearing of the application.

Order

(4) On hearing the application, the judge may order the person to provide the document or information if the judge concludes that, in the circumstances of the case, the production of the document or information is necessary to ensure Canada's compliance with the convention and that the public interest outweighs in importance the privacy interests of the person.”

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

The Chairman

The question is on the amendment.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Bloc

Daniel Turp Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Mr. Chairman, I simply want to ensure that the legislation is properly translated in the French version. I think the subclause (2) should read “division de première instance” rather than “section de première instance”.

If this is so, I would like the word “section” replaced by the word “division” in subclause (2) of the French version of the amendment introduced by the minister. I understand someone is checking on this.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

The Chairman

Perhaps while this is being considered we could hear from the hon. member for Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, who wants to speak to this debate.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Reform

Keith Martin Reform Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Mr. Chairman, I wonder from the minister and his advisors what he believes reasonable grounds are and what provisions exist within this part of the bill to protect the privacy of members of the public.

It seems to be somewhat heavy handed in that it gives the minister and extraordinary amount of power to enter or require information from people. I would like to have him define what reasonable grounds are.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Winnipeg South Centre Manitoba

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Chairman, it is for the reason the hon. member mentions that we are proposing the amendment.

Rather than simply having the minister declare that information must be provided as is required under the convention concerning the possession or acquisition of land mines, we are proposing an amendment that would require us to ask a judge to give a court order after hearing the proper evidence that the requirements of the treaty would outweigh the public interests or privacy interests. We are giving the court the authority to make that judgment, not the minister.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Bloc

Daniel Turp Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Mr. Chairman, I have noticed that this amendment seems to involve an amendment to another provision of the bill, clause 21, and that, if I understood correctly, contravention of clause 11(2) will no longer be considered an offence, as was originally provided in clause 21.

I would like to know why clause 11(2) is no longer mentioned in clause 21 under the subsequent amendment. I want an explanation for why 11(2) is being removed from the list in clause 21.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB

Mr. Chairman, the reason why we take out the reference to 11(2) in 21 is that we do not want to presume or pre-empt a judgment by a judge. I have always been very careful in my career never to try to presume what a judge is going to do. It would be very wise in this case to do the same.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

The Chairman

Is there now agreement regarding the wording of the French version?

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Kilger Liberal Stormont—Dundas, ON

Mr. Chairman, we are waiting a few moments to have the translation of the terms queried by the hon. member for Beauharnois—Salaberry checked.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

The Chairman

Perhaps we could move on to other clauses of the bill for the time being. Is that agreed?

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed

(Clauses 12 to 14 inclusive agreed to)

(On Clause 15)

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Reform

Bob Mills Reform Red Deer, AB

Mr. Chairman, I have a question about clause 15(4). Basically it talks about not getting a warrant. We did have legal counsel explain to us that this is when mines are being rushed out the back door and we want to apprehend people. I guess that is all right. The only thing is it seems there is room for abuse. Is there any way to fix that or tighten it up?

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Winnipeg South Centre Manitoba

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Chairman, that was put in there explicitly to take into account that the House is presently considering what are called the Feney amendments to the Criminal Code. They take into account these extenuating circumstances. This is meant to be consistent with the particular Criminal Code change which is being made.

(Clauses 15 and 16 agreed to)

(On clause 17)

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Bloc

Daniel Turp Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Mr. Chairman, guided by the attention to accuracy characteristic of our political party, particularly when it comes to the French version of legislation, I would like the French version only of clause 17 amended to include the adjective humaine after the word dignité so that it is consistent with the English text, which speaks of human dignity.

I know there have been some objections, but I have checked in a number of international texts in which the words dignité humaine are used in French with the same meaning as the words human dignity in English.

I therefore move:

That Bill C-22, in Clause 17, be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 27 on page 8 with the following:

“réputation ou la dignité humaine de tout individu;”

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Winnipeg South Centre Manitoba

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Chairman, we are in agreement.

Anti-Personnel Mines Convention Implementation ActGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

The Chairman

Shall the amendment carry?