House of Commons Hansard #129 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was via.

Topics

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10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Stan Keyes Liberal Hamilton West, ON

Unfortunately the hon. member opposite would sooner spend his time, as he said he did, back in his riding holding what he called politically oriented meetings, et cetera, rather than doing the job that his constituents sent him here to Ottawa to do.

We were working very hard on a triple T study, as we call it, a trade, transportation and tourism study. We heard a bevy of witnesses on the subject.

To the credit of the chairman of that committee, he pulled together 22 players, who either came to the committee at one time or made written interventions to the committee, to sit at one table. It worked wonderfully. Unfortunately, the hon. member missed it. Not one member of the Reform Party was present. However, the government and the official opposition were there.

Twenty-two people were sitting around the table. Instead of the usual way a committee works, hearing witness after another, unconnected, and only hearing one side of the story, we had all these witnesses sitting around the table discussing the idea of finding new options, exploring new ways of helping to finance a national highways project. One person would say something and another person would argue sensibly, quietly and diligently why we may not be able to do something.

It was the most fruitful meeting I have been at in the nine years I have been sitting on committees. There was interaction at the table between the private sector, the public sector and members of Parliament who represent their constituencies. At the end of the day, there was a consensus among all the players. Even more important than pulling in witnesses and trying to come to some consensus as individual witnesses, it was a table that came together as a consensus. It was marvellous.

The consensus was to move toward a model. We would take an example of a structured road somewhere in Canada and apply the strategic thinking that went on at that committee to the model to see how to crunch the numbers, to see the options of payment, and to see where the government and the Canadian taxpayers would be taking a lower risk on a particular venture. These are the great ideas that came out of that meeting. Unfortunately, the member opposite was not at it.

On the subject of the Pearson airport deal, I have to ask myself about the hon. member of the Reform Party. Let us remind ourselves that he belongs to a party that prides itself on being the party of constituent consensus. Let us look at constituent consensus. What did constituency consensus state? In the Toronto Star , for example, on December 4, 1993, it stated: ``Prime Minister's Chrétien's decision to cancel the privatization deal of Pearson International Airport is a breath of fresh air that cleans the stench left behind by the shady deal worked out by the Tory lobbyists for friends of the previous government''.

"Friends of the previous government". After hearing the intervention of the Reform Party member opposite, I have to think that he could not be a friend of the taxpayers. He is a friend of these lobbyists, of the company run by a guy by the name of Don Matthews, a gentleman who was a chief Tory fundraiser and past president of the Conservative Party. He came forward with this deal. There is not even an option or opportunity for the not for profit corporation, the GTAA, Greater Toronto Airport Authority, to get into the bidding process. It was not allowed to bid on the project and the deal went to Paxport.

At the end of the day Paxport, the company that won the deal, did not have the resources to follow through with what it wanted to do. What did it have to do? It had to reach out and pull in someone in order to meet the deal that it had promised the Conservatives. Therefore, it reached out to the owners of terminal 3, Claridge.

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10:35 a.m.

Reform

Jim Gouk Reform Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC

Liberals.

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10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Stan Keyes Liberal Hamilton West, ON

Yes, Liberals, because Claridge wanted to make the airport work properly. However, I have to ask the hon. member:

Who is he standing up for? Is he standing up for the consortium that wants $600 million for itself, never having put a shovel in the ground, or is he standing up for the Canadian taxpayer who says: "Government, you do what you have to do. You take these people to court. You make sure that you try to achieve a goal that says we are not going to give another penny over what is deserving, somewhere between $30 million and $60 million, not $600 million as demanded, to pay for things that were not done for the lobbyists and for the friends of Brian Mulroney?" Where does the hon. member stand for the Canadian taxpayer?

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10:40 a.m.

Reform

Jim Gouk Reform Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC

Mr. Speaker, I hope I have enough time left to respond to the comments made by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport.

First, I will deal with the last part of his tirade on the Pearson airport. He refers to the Toronto Star as his constituency. We know the Liberals play to the newspapers and we now have proof, right out of the mouth of the parliamentary secretary.

He keeps talking about the fact that this is a pay-off for the Tory supporters, but in fact, by his own admission, the principal group involved at the time of signing is the Claridge group which is made up of Liberals.

As far as the settlement is concerned, we do not want a specific settlement, we want the rule of law to apply like anyone else. The Liberals cannot screw up, which is what they did with the Pearson cancellation, and then write legislation to protect their own hides.

With respect to the highway study that he mentioned, he is the person who continually says that the committee is the master of its own destiny. I believe the chair of the committee is an honourable person, but he got orders from on high to disregard the commitments he made to me.

The suggestion was made by the hon. member that I would rather be in my riding than down here doing my work. There is a parliamentary schedule. There is a schedule to be here; there is a schedule to be in the constituency. While he was dithering around doing who knows what, I was in my riding conferring with my real constituents, the taxpayers of this country, not the Toronto Star . I held 18 town hall meetings during the January recess period and the parliamentary secretary knows that.

He says that they pulled in all these wonderful people. The principal leader was Moya Greene, who came right out of the transport department. He made a mistake. I asked for a certain report and they faxed it to me. In the report which they faxed to me were handwritten notes made by Moya Greene. They goofed again.

The more the Liberals try to twist the facts, the more trouble they get into. They heard four months of testimony from witnesses and on a one day, by invitation only, round table, they brought in their own special people to manipulate this thing. They overruled four months of testimony and wrote a report based on one day.

If that is what they intended to do, why did they waste hundreds of thousands of taxpayers' dollars travelling from one end of the country to the other? Time, money and effort were expended by all those witnesses who thought they were getting democracy, when the Liberals intended to hold a one day meeting and override the whole thing.

Honour and democracy are alien words to that side of the House. Instead of buying a new red book they should buy a dictionary.

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10:40 a.m.

Hamilton West Ontario

Liberal

Stan Keyes LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, I want to respond to the remarks made by the hon. member and the Reform motion before the House which condemns the government for its approach to federal transportation policies.

First, I would like to address the concluding remarks of the member opposite. He said that his constituents are somehow different than the constituents of the Toronto Star . I have spent some 16 years in television news-

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10:40 a.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

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10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Stan Keyes Liberal Hamilton West, ON

It was not just the Toronto Star but many other media outlets which displayed the same outrage on behalf of the people who read their newspapers, who just so happen to live in my riding and in the riding of the hon. member for Kootenay West-Revelstoke.

The views of the taxpayers are seen on the editorial pages. Maybe the hon. member does not go beyond the editorials written by the paper and read the editorials with constituents' names attached to them. Some of them are outraged. Many have written to say they did not like the deal, that it was a deal which was hatched in the dying days of a Conservative administration that was on its way out because it had the worst eight year record of fraud that was ever established in Canadian history. On how many occasions did we watch, as I did, ministers on the Conservative front bench stepping down because of their improprieties?

The media outlets are there. They are doing their job. In order to represent the Canadian taxpayer, they are the people who are watching out. It is quite so these days that this House of Commons does not have an opposition. The opposition is the news media in this country and I say thank God for that.

The government's transportation policies, the very policies that the hon. member for Kootenay West-Revelstoke would have this House condemn, are helping to boost Canada's trade competitive-

ness. They are strengthening tourism. Best of all, they are creating jobs in Canada. That is because the transport minister and this government have a clear vision for the future of transportation in this country.

Over many years governments in Canada invested in, operated, owned, regulated and controlled our transportation systems. This led to an overbuilt, oversubsidized, overregulated environment. Today however a far reaching modernization is under way.

I believe it was the Minister of Finance who first pointed out to this House in one of his first budgets that the government ought to get out of the business of running business. That is part of the modernization process I am speaking to. Our government is working toward a more efficient, commercially driven, regionally responsive infrastructure that is less dependent on public subsidies. We are working toward transportation that a new economy can ride on.

For proof of that work we need look no further than the first subject of today's motion, Pearson airport. Our government transferred control of Pearson airport to the Greater Toronto Airport Authority last December. That is what the people wanted in this country. This transfer cleared the way for the GTAA to redevelop Pearson to its fullest potential and to market the airport as one of North America's leading international gateways.

The federal government ran Pearson airport for many years and it ran it well, but the federal government had neither the freedom nor the mandate to pursue the full commercial potential of the airport. However the GTAA has done both. It is free to aggressively market Pearson airport, to pursue new business opportunities, to use innovative financing for capital works.

The commercial orientation will ensure that Pearson, Canada's largest and busiest airport, remains responsive to the needs of the travelling public, shippers, carriers and the surrounding community. Already the Greater Toronto Airport Authority has announced a major redevelopment plan for the airport that will see terminals 1 and 2 eventually replaced by a modern, unified terminal building. The redevelopment plan represents an investment of $2 billion in the airport; that is $2 billion, with a b . That is in addition to the $250 million worth of projects already under way at Pearson, including the construction of a new north-south runway and a centralized aircraft de-icing system.

I emphasize that our government transferred control of the whole Pearson airport, not simply terminals 1 and 2. That will allow the airport authority to develop and put in place a vision for the airport as one single strong entity.

In accordance with our government's national airports policy, the GTAA must also abide by strict principles of public accountability. It must ensure that the concerns of airport users, the people who pay the bills, the local community and the taxpayer are not superseded by those of private interests, the friends of my hon. friend from Kootenay West-Revelstoke.

The authority's board of directors must be composed of representatives from the community, the various levels of government and other participating organizations such as boards of trade and labour organizations. That is what our government's national airport policy is all about: ensuring that Canada's airports reach their full potential, that they generate growth, create jobs, all the while working in the best interests of the community and the country.

The national airports policy is just one of our government's achievements in the air sector. We have been working hard to modernize Canadian air transportation. We have introduced a new international air transportation policy designed to better meet the needs of travellers, shippers and airport communities.

Also of significant impact to Canadian travellers was the signing of the landmark open skies agreement with the United States back in February 1995. Thanks to open skies, Pearson airport is enjoying a significant number of new direct flights to the United States.

On the issue of highways, just as improved air transportation leads to increased trade, tourism and jobs, so too does a safe, well maintained national highway system. That is why our government will be spending $292 million on cost shared highway development projects in this fiscal year alone. This is in addition to the approximately $100 million we spend each year on federally owned highways and bridges across the country. That is a total of $392 million, an amount that we just moments ago heard the Reform Party allege was a meagre amount.

To quote the Reform Party member: "The government is spending a mere $392 million on highways", a mere. That is close to half a billion dollars. Only a Reform Party member could call an almost half a billion dollar investment in highways a mere amount.

That is also why our government will be studying very carefully in the days ahead the recently tabled report from the Standing Committee on Transport which deals with the very issue of highway funding. It was when the report came together, when we returned to this House after the break, that we worked diligently day after day, hour after hour without the member for Kootenay West-Revelstoke who speaks so eloquently that we have a schedule here and a schedule there. Well, the schedule started two weeks ago and the member only returned to the House after our serious deliberations and meetings-

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10:50 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Milliken)

Order. I think the hon. parliamentary secretary knows that it is improper to refer to the presence or absence of members. I invite him to refrain from that kind of comment.

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10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Stan Keyes Liberal Hamilton West, ON

Point taken, Mr. Speaker.

As the hon. members across the floor well know, highways are mostly the exclusive jurisdiction of the provinces. The many funding agreements we have signed with the provinces and territories however are proof of our government's commitment to work with other levels of government to preserve and enhance Canada's national highway system.

On the subject of grain transportation which the hon. member brought forward but did not speak to, our government's efforts to ensure the provision of a well maintained road system in this country mirror our work to modernize the rail sector. This leads me to the subject of grain transportation.

The motion before us suggests that the federal government is responsible somehow for the inefficiencies in the grain transportation system. Nothing could be further from the truth. Since coming to office, our government has taken bold steps to modernize rail transportation, the principal means by which grain is shipped in this country.

The Canada Transportation Act for example has given Canadian railways the flexibility to compete by reducing costs and those excessive regulations. The new act has cut the number of railway actions or decisions requiring government approval to about 40 from a previous high of 200. Cutting excess regulation will benefit not only the railways but also its customers, which include the grain shippers, through lower rail costs. The new act also shifts the focus from rail line abandonment toward the development of a healthy shortline industry.

Canadian National is now a private company with the tools it needs to compete. Putting CN into the private sector was an important step in our government's plan for modernizing the rail transportation system. The privatization has placed CN and CP rail systems on a level playing field. It has also subjected CN to the disciplines of the marketplace.

Not only will this move ensure the survival of the railway, but the gross proceeds from the sale of the crown's 80 million shares returned to the Canadian taxpayer in the amount of $2 billion. The enthusiastic response to the share offering by investors through Canada, the U.S. and internationally was outstanding. In fact it demonstrates CN's position as a strong player in the North American rail industry.

Finally, let us talk about the issue of transportation subsidies. As even a casual observer will notice, our government has dramatically cut subsidies in the transport sector. We have done so because we believe that those who use the transportation services should pay a greater share of the cost of providing those services.

VIA Rail for example will see its annual subsidy reduced to $170 million for the fiscal year 1997-98.

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10:50 a.m.

Reform

Lee Morrison Reform Swift Current—Maple Creek—Assiniboia, SK

Only $170 million?

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10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Stan Keyes Liberal Hamilton West, ON

Only $170 million because prior to that, my friend in the party opposite, it was well over $300 million and we have cut the subsidy. To its credit VIA Rail has not cut services in the process.

In conclusion, I have addressed all the principal concerns set out in what I call this laughable motion, but by no means have I exhausted the list of accomplishments our government has achieved in the transport sector. There is the national marine policy for example. There is last November's transfer of the air navigation system to the not for profit corporation called Nav Canada, a move that also netted the taxpayers of the country $1.5 billion. I am proud to say that we are meeting our goal in this government.

For five years I sat on the opposition benches. For five years I sat on the transport committee of the House and I watched the Conservative government-the same Conservative government that had its current leader sitting at the cabinet table-shelve document after document and not pay attention to the needs of transportation, not modernize transportation, not bring forward all the essences that make Canada great, that pull us together, that make us competitive and create jobs in this country.

I am proud of this government's record and I am going to stick by it. I am prepared to entertain any questions the hon. member opposite might have.

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10:55 a.m.

Reform

Jim Gouk Reform Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC

Mr. Speaker, every time I hear the hon. member who just spoke I am more impressed with his talent. He just stood and gave 20 minutes of the biggest bunch of drivel I have ever heard yet he kept a straight face through the whole thing. Perhaps it is explained by his suggestion that he has a background in radio and television. I guess that is where he got his training.

A couple of quick points. He said that the CN share sale was a huge success, and it was. In fact it was such a success that many Canadian purchasers wanted to buy shares. However they were not allowed to because the Liberal government in its document designated a large portion of them to be sold only outside the country. This was in spite of the fact that the Reform Party put in an amendment to say that for the first 60 or 30 days allow it for Canadians only and then open it up. The government refused to do that and many Canadian purchasers who wanted to keep the rail company ownership in Canada were refused because of Liberal policy.

The hon. member says that the Pearson deal was signed in the dying days. I do not know, maybe the hon. member lives in the publishing office of the Toronto Star instead of a house because if he has ever bought or sold a house he knows that once you make a commitment to buy a house, the signing, the final completion of the contract, the conveyance comes further down the road. Once the commitment is made, both sides are locked in. To do otherwise would be a breach of contract like the one the government has now found itself in as ruled by the Supreme Court of Ontario.

The hon. member said that government is oversized and oversubsidized and that the Liberals intend to cut it down. He also said that the government ought to get out of the business of running business. Why then would the government even consider for a moment allowing this huge subsidized VIA Rail currently being subsidized by an amount of $600,000 a day to compete against the private sector, the private sector that it in fact asked to take over VIA Rail operations? They not only did it, they were good. They made it one of the best successful businesses in British Columbia and now they want to destroy it.

If the hon. member is so worried about the papers, tell the papers in Kamloops and through them all the people in Kamloops, why this Liberal government wants to destroy 42,000 hotel nights a year in Kamloops by letting VIA Rail get back into the very business it sold. I would specifically like to hear an answer to the question as to why, given his own words-unless he is prepared to go back on them-they would even consider allowing VIA to now go into competition against the Rocky Mountaineer?

Finally, with regard to Pearson, he mentioned $2 billion in expenditures at Pearson airport. I have heard that amount too. The new head of the GTAA has said: "We have this great plan. We are going to spend $2 billion". Never mind the $800 million the private sector was going to spend without it costing the taxpayer a dime. Where is that money coming from? The Pearson contract specifically banned the private sector from introducing passenger user fees except under exceptional circumstances. Where is the money going to come from? Who are they going to stick for the bill for rebuilding the terminal now that the private sector which was going to do it at no cost to the taxpayer has been kicked out?

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11 a.m.

Liberal

Stan Keyes Liberal Hamilton West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will directly answer the member's questions. All the the member's hyperbole notwithstanding, there is a right to be protected here, the right of the Canadian taxpayer in regard to the Pearson airport deal.

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11 a.m.

Reform

Jim Gouk Reform Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC

The right to pay more.

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11 a.m.

Liberal

Stan Keyes Liberal Hamilton West, ON

The member asked if I own a house. Did I ever sell a house or make a contract? Yes, I have bought a house but I have had the opportunity of knowing exactly what I am buying. Unfortunately, the Conservative government of the day sold a bill of goods in the dying hours of a campaign. It knew it was on its way out. The Canadian taxpayers recognized the deal was a sham, hatched by the Conservatives, and it was not going to be the right deal for the Canadian taxpayer.

However, the government is still on the record as saying it will leave every option open to reach a settlement that is satisfactory to the Canadian taxpayer, satisfactory to the plaintiffs in this matter, completely satisfactory. It means a payment, interestingly enough, with which the consortium is not happy.

The consortium is not happy with what it received back in payments to the tune of approximately $60 million. They are going all the way on this thing because they have bills to pay for their Conservative lobbyist friends; $600 million as opposed to $30 million or $40 million. Imagine.

There is a member of the House who represents constituents in a riding in British Columbia who is saying: "I agree with those fellows. Let us give them $600 million because, gosh, we had a contract". Let us talk about who is to be protected here. The Canadian taxpayers that we represent need the protection. The Canadian taxpayers have recognized this deal as a sham. This government is standing on its own two feet and making sure that the taxpayer is protected. It is ensuring that the right of the Canadian taxpayer is given paramount consideration in this matter.

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11 a.m.

Reform

Monte Solberg Reform Medicine Hat, AB

I think we need protection from your government.

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11 a.m.

Reform

Jim Gouk Reform Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC

Do not forget to answer the VIA question.

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11 a.m.

Liberal

Stan Keyes Liberal Hamilton West, ON

I know the hon. member opposite is very interested in the VIA question. Unfortunately, as is usually the case with the opposition, it is only telling half the story.

Let us look at the full story. A private sector company called the Great Canadian Railtour Company is doing a fantastic job, a wonderful job of providing-

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11 a.m.

Reform

Monte Solberg Reform Medicine Hat, AB

Why are you trying to destroy it?

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11 a.m.

Liberal

Stan Keyes Liberal Hamilton West, ON

Do you want to hear it or do you want to keep yelling?

That company is doing a wonderful job of providing a tourism service. It provides the customer the opportunity to get on a train, travel through part of the Rockies, stay overnight in a community, have a meal and entertainment and get back on the train in the morning and continue on their way to the next location. It is a magnificent tourism service, a first class service.

VIA wants to run a train from one part of B.C. to another during the daylight hours, providing transportation to a group of people who live in B.C. who number in the thousands that are saying: "We

do not have enough room on this particular train. We need more room on another train to get from A to B.

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11 a.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

And lose money.

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11 a.m.

Liberal

Stan Keyes Liberal Hamilton West, ON

It is not a luxury service. It is not going to be an overnight service. The members over there want to compare apples and oranges and cry that it is not fair.

We are working with Mr. Peter Armstrong at the Great Canadian Railtour Company to try to achieve a goal that will be fair to him and at the same time fair to the Canadian taxpayer who pays the bills for VIA Rail who has said: "We will be arm's length from you. You are going out there. You are going to do the business necessary in order to get a return on the investment of the Canadian taxpayers".

VIA's subsidy of $350 million a year is now down to $170 million yet it is not dropping any services. We telling them to become commercial and get competitive. That is exactly what it is trying to do. However, if VIA came in and duplicated the service of the Great Canadian Railtour Company in B.C., the government would not stand for it, I would not stand for it and neither would the constituents of British Columbia.

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11:05 a.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup, QC

I am pleased to speak today on this Reform Party motion condemning the government for its approach to various federal transportation policies. The Reform Party has opted to focus on the partisan choices made by the present government. They are entitled to do so, and this may be one aspect that is particularly striking.

I wish in particular to draw the attention of the House to the present government's inefficiency in the area of transportation. At the present time, there is a fairly impressive number of examples of the federal government's shirking its responsibilities and therefore costing Quebec and Canadian taxpayers considerable amounts of money.

The first example is the Pearson airport. The former government decided to privatize the airport, and this one made a campaign promise to cancel that privatization. To that end, it tabled a bill which the hon. members on this side of the House rejected on the grounds that it was inadequate, inconsistent and unrealistic. It was even defeated by the Liberal majority in the Senate.

The government has had eight months now, since June 1996, to find a solution with the promoters of Pearson airport to settle the dispute without costing Canadians an arm and a leg.

We are still waiting. Will the federal government introduce a new bill in an attempt to get out of this mess, which is going to cost, who knows, maybe $85 million to $100 million if there is an out-of-court settlement? If there is a decision-the case is currently before the courts-the suit is for some $600 million.

The federal government is being illogical in defending the privatization of Pearson airport, after the Prime Minister himself said while campaigning: "This privatization must be cancelled, because there will be outrageous profits, $200 million".

Now the government lawyers are saying in court: "No, no, the profits will not be that high. So they do not deserve any significant compensation". The government needs to get its act Together, face its responsibilities, and take a stand.

Unfortunately, as far as transportation is concerned, for the past three years the government seems to have been on automatic pilot. It has deregulated and privatized, but it also stopped doing something that was not necessarily undesirable in all sectors. It stopped monitoring the effects of these policies.

We had an example this fall. In 1996, there was a dramatic increase in railway accidents. There was an increase in the number of deaths and accidents as a result of safety problems on the railway network. We had an aging network on which the lines were not always maintained. The government decided to privatize the system, which was not necessarily a bad thing. On the other hand, the government had no right to look the other way and cease to fulfil the mandate it still has, privatization or no privatization, to ensure the safety of our railways.

The motion presented by the Reform Party today concerns the partisan approach of the federal government to its transportation policies. However, I think the biggest mistake, the most obvious weakness in the government's approach is the fact that it is incapable of taking a position, making decisions and acting responsibly.

I gave the example of Pearson airport. There is worse yet. Yesterday, a judgment by a judge of the Quebec Superior Court stated that the federal government had failed to act responsibly in the matter of changing the roles of Montreal's airports at Dorval and Mirabel.

Today, we have a situation where everyone is back to square one. There are regions whose economies have been hard hit by this decision. The judge made the decision on the basis of the case before him. For the past six months at least, the Bloc Quebecois has suggested two things the minister should do. First, conduct public hearings on the question. And second, act responsibly as the lessee of the facilities at Mirabel airport and Dorval.

These recommendations by the Bloc are exactly the same recommendations that were made in the judgment by Judge Viau.

So it is not just an opposition party speaking out. Now we have a judge who made a ruling. The federal government, which has been dithering for six months, will now have to pull up its socks and act responsibly. This is one more example of the federal government's lack of effectiveness in the transportation sector. This department, which for years had been huge and very slow to act, is now having trouble monitoring the reforms that have been introduced and ensuring they will be implemented.

A third example is Canadian Airlines International. For many years the federal government has been artificially supporting this lame duck. According to its vision, we absolutely needed two national carriers in Canada. Well, one of them has been on life support for a number of years: it was given grants, even a tax holiday and compensatory funding. A precedent was set when the government intervened in labour relations to allow Canadian to survive.

This is irresponsible, coming from a government that sees itself as an advocate of free competition. When it formulated this principle, it should have abided by it and let the companies do the same. Air Canada has already done a lot of house cleaning. It had to make some very difficult decisions in the past: lay-offs of pilots and other staff. Today, it is a profitable company. It operates well and is aggressive on international markets. It would be prepared to expand if the Canadian government was not paralysing it by limiting its international routes.

Here we have three examples of federal government inefficiency, lack of decision making ability and inflexibility. They are Pearson airport, the Montreal airports and Canadian international. So we can see how the federal government has problems being effective in its transport policy, with examples such as these. One tends to wonder about the upcoming reforms.

In December 1995, the government tabled a reform of Canadian ports policy. In the meantime, it tabled Bill C-44. In December, we considered it clause by clause, but we have heard nothing since then. The bill has not reappeared in the House, and communities are quite anxious about how their port facilities will be returned to them.

Will there be enough money to return the ports to the communities in a reasonable state? Is the current figure of $125 million sufficient? Will they take into consideration our recommendation that commercial ports like Cacouna, in my riding, for example, be treated differently from ferry ports like Saint-Siméon and Rivière-du-Loup, which is also in my riding?

This sort of facility must be treated differently. The government's intention to maintain ferry services and port facilities, so long as the ferries continue to run, must be absolutely clear. We need clarity, because the longer decisions are put off, the greater the impact on the decision of business to settle in a region.

Eastern Quebec, as you know, was hit very hard by the employment insurance reform. So the federal government must hasten to establish clear guidelines and make choices in order to let people know the conditions under which the port of Cacouna will become the property of the port development corporation, so that business wishing to set up in our region may do so in full knowledge of the facts.

When a business makes a choice and says: "I will set up a plant in a given sector", this is not a short term vision. It is looking 5, 10, 15 and 20 years down the road. However, we are in a period of very rapid choices. Without adequate answers in these matters, businesses that may have been considering settling in our region could decide to go elsewhere, in New England or some other part of the U.S. eastern seaboard, where they will know where they stand.

I urge the federal government to take a position in this matter as soon as possible.

Another example of the federal government's inefficiency and lack of foresight is last year's reform of the line conveyance procedures. Up till then, before a line could be closed, public hearings had to be held, and if the stakeholders' could find sufficient justification, the line was maintained.

The legislation introduced by the federal, which it got through the House but which we rejected, now allows the companies simply to put the line up for sale again. If the company can find a buyer, the line is sold. Otherwise, the line is abandoned. But they forgot to be specific enough in the legislation.

Let me give you a very concrete example. On the Matapédia-Chandler-Gaspé line, in the Gaspé, runs the Chaleur, a train administered by VIA Rail. The legislation should have included a safeguard whereby the government could prevent private companies from dismantling their lines without any regard for the existing passenger transport networks when there is only one operational line, especially during winter, to ensure that this only line is maintained.

The absence of such a safeguard in the legislation led to the current nonsense. CN is selling the portion of the line between Matapédia and Chandler. They have a buyer, the Société des chemins de fer nationaux du Québec, for that portion because it is used not only for passenger transport but also for freight transport. There is no buyer, however, for the other line between Chandler and Gaspé, which is the continuation, because it is used only by VIA.

VIA Rail passengers are therefore being held to ransom following the company's decision, and the federal government has

absolutely no say in all this. It can only try to see, through a feasibility study, how the economic future of that line could be ensured. Again, we can see that the federal government lacks a sense of planning in its actions.

The government should implement major changes. It should take concrete action as soon as possible, especially as regards the Railway Act, so as to avoid the sale of railway lines. These lines would probably be better managed if they were run by local administrations. At the same time, however, we must not create situations where railway users, including passengers for whom the train is the only mode of transportation, see that mode disappear because of the inefficiency of the applicable legislation.

This is another example which shows that the representations we made were not taken into account by the federal government. In this case, as in the others which I mentioned, the government displays a blatant inefficiency and it should make appropriate changes as quickly as possible, in order to improve the situation.

Now that the federal government has gone ahead with deregulation, it must watch for the impact of this change in every sector. Let me give you an example. The government recently established Nav Canada, a corporation that will manage Canada's air navigation system. In this area, as with railway accidents, there must be an adequate follow-up as regards safety, otherwise in six months, a year or two years, we will notice an increase in the number of accidents in that sector, and we will only be able to deplore some situations when it is too late. I am asking the federal government to make sure it will allocate adequate resources for this initiative.

The Reform Party says it condemns the partisan approach to transportation policies. The government will have an opportunity over the coming weeks and months to prove that its approach is not partisan, when it makes a decision with respect to implementing a partnership between the private and public sectors for the purpose of upgrading Canada's national highway system.

A recommendation has been made by the Standing Committee on Transport, which has seen some truly impressive co-operation, with the Bloc Quebecois working with the government to ensure that, over the coming years, there will be significant investment in the national highway system, because it is an essential development tool in the context of North American free trade. In the future, our highway system must become increasingly efficient.

The report suggested pilot projects, and this will be the test of whether the government is capable of a non-partisan approach. Various areas in Canada have development needs in this regard. These needs could be in major urban centres not equipped with the necessary road system, but still part of the Trans-Canada. Or they could be in areas like my riding, where one of the highways running between Rivière-du-Loup and New Brunswick has seen a huge increase in traffic over the last 20 years. We are very pleased with this increase, because it contributes to economic activity, but today the highway no longer really meets the needs of the traffic using it.

The federal government will have to make some choices. The committee chairman made representations to the Prime Minister. His advice was that the government should go ahead with this huge investment, and that this new model of funding a private and public partnership should be tried out, allowing the government to shift the investment risk to the private sector and thus making it possible to start up projects two, three, four or five years earlier.

Will the federal government be capable of analyzing proposals on the basis of objective needs criteria? Will it see there are safety problems, like those on the 185 through Témiscouata in my riding? At Saint-Antonin, Saint-Honoré, and Ville Dégelis, accidents occur simply because the road, which is part of the Trans-Canada, can no longer keep up with increased traffic.

I hope the federal government will do something and that a few months from now I will be able to say: "Yes, they did a good job in that area. No partisan decisions. Objective decisions that made it possible to start the work and thus help regional development."

The federal government must not forget it has a lot to answer for in regions with a high percentage of seasonal workers. We were hit on the head with employment insurance reform, and this is still going on, since we have found this reform systematically penalizes seasonal workers.

The Minister of Human Resources Development seems be waking up to this. He is finding ways to change the situation. However, what is needed is measures to diversify the economy and one of the main tools is management of the transportation sector in Canada.

For many decades, Quebec realized how penalized it was by the fact that it did not control its means of development. Since Quebec runs north-south, its development is linked to New England and the American markets. For a long time, Quebec was penalized as a result of a Canadian decision to promote east-west development.

Now that we have opted for free trade, the government's decisions should allow for these circumstances and let our regions develop their potential. Remember that at the end of the nineteenth century, the maritimes were an autonomous region that sold as many goods as it purchased and generated enough jobs to support its population.

However, the policies of the Trudeau years were to create large reserves in the regions. The message was: "We will let the market create jobs in the large urban centres and then we will distribute the wealth." Today, we realize that this does not work because we are

penalizing the people who work in seasonal industries. We are waiting for the federal government to do the right thing and use transportation as a tool in this respect.

We have every reason to be sceptical. Federal action in the transportation sector has not been a success during the past decades. There was quite a commotion at one point. A few years ago, reforms were introduced, but we must ensure that the government-and the opposition will play a watchdog role in this respect-really has an integrated policy for the development of transportation, whether we are talking about the railways, air transportation, shipping or highway transportation. That is not the case at the present time.

The government is being very ad hoc. It is trying to pacify the Pearson developers, but now they will have to manage another crisis involving Aéroports de Montréal. And the same applies to Canadian. My conclusion is that the federal government should drop its piecemeal approach, adopt an integrated transportation strategy and avoid partisanship. If it does, this will benefit the economies of Quebec and Canada.

Let us hope that today's opposition day will make the government aware of its responsibilities and the need to act quickly to provide clear guidelines.

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Reform

Monte Solberg Reform Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order to ask for the unanimous consent of the House to revert to Statements by Members. Before I put that question, it is important to inform the House why I am making this request.

I note that the Prime Minister will be making a state of the nation address at an invitation only luncheon at the Chateau Laurier Hotel at noon today. As you are aware, Mr. Speaker-

SupplyGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Milliken)

Order. The hon. member said Statements by Members. We have not passed Statements by Members. Those come just before question-