Debates of Feb. 20th, 1997

The Budget

[The Deputy Speaker]

The language used was not unparliamentary. Unfortunately a great deal of what is said in this House is criticizing other members and unfortunately that is still allowed. The hon. member for Waterloo has the floor.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am amazed that the member opposite cannot even accept a compliment given to a previous speaker and would stand up and complain. I am quite surprised.

Be that as it may, I did make a comment that there were those three reasonable members and unfortunately none of them will be running in the next election.

Let me raise some points with regard to the speech. The member mentioned, for instance, that somehow Ralph Klein and Mike Harris were being conned into the infrastructure program and it was a waste of money. The member knows I come from the federal riding of Waterloo and I have two excellent universities in my riding.

I would like to tell the member that when we invested in infrastructure, and part of the investment in infrastructure went to the universities, we invested in the future of our young, in our future work force, so we can compete worldwide and win. Instead of saying that the Minister of Finance gets an F on that, the Minister of Finance gets an A .

Let me further tell the hon. member that at the present time in Waterloo, the University of Waterloo supplies the greatest number of workers for Microsoft in the United States. Surely the member would understand that having Canadian graduates go through taxpayer funded universities in Canada and ending up working in a high tech job in the United States-

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member's time has expired.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if I heard a question in there but I think I have a general idea of where the member was going.

I do believe infrastructure is very important. I did not say it is not important. It is one of the first areas we should spend the Canadian tax dollars we collect but it is when you spend it and how you spend it. It is an admission of failure by the three levels of government when all of a sudden because the federal government announces a plan they say that they have bridges to fix and roads to pave. For example, the mayor of Ottawa wants as much as she can get out of this infrastructure to build a hotel here. That is not what infrastructure money is for. It is more in the private sector.

The same for Calgary when they spent $9 million on the Saddledome. That was not what the infrastructure should have been for. That should have been done by private sector. What happened to the private sector? What happened to the risk reward relationship? As politicians if we get embedded with the private sector there is going to become a conflict of interest. They are not going to be able to say no. Which companies do you help? Then the marketplace is distorted.

The $800 million plan for the Canada foundation of the Network of Centres of Excellence is a good way to spend that expenditure money. It will be spread out over time, it will not all be in the 1997 budget but yet it is included in here. That is why I say it is against generally accepted accounting principles. Unless there are signed agreements with everybody on the $800 million, and I hope there is and I am sure the auditor general will let us know whether there is or not. Fudging deficit numbers just for the sake of the deficit is creating an illusion that we have money to spend. We do not. A deficit is a minus, albeit a $19 billion minus is a lot less than a $42 billion minus and it is a big improvement.

I compliment the government for reducing the deficit but I criticize the government and give it an F for not doing it sooner and faster when it knows the real problem is the debt. The finance minister gets an F because his rhetoric does not match the reality. The reality is that he took $7.5 billion from the poor for education and hospitals.

Look at what Ontario finance minister Ernie Eaves said. He said "they took away $2 billion and now they are going to give us back $200 million". He is mistaken if he thinks that $200 million that this government is giving back, both for infrastructure and on the social services, is coming soon and without strings attached, without rules as to how he has to spend that money. This fight is not over. He said he wants to help the disabled, the students and he lays out a big program but it is spread out over three years. Two-thirds of the money if not more is after the next election.

The biggest scam of all and the one I am going to predict right now is the one which will happen in the next federal election to be called for June. After the election has been called for June and after we hit the year ending March 1997 we will have a projected $19 billion deficit. It is not a $19 billion deficit. He knows it is not a $19 billion deficit. He could have said that as of today it is only $17 billion but he is not going to. He is actually going to announce a $16 billion deficit. He can now do a tax relief and he can promise this and that.

This finance minister gets an F for not matching the rhetoric with the reality.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to present my views on the budget that was presented by the Minister of Finance the other day.

Perhaps I will widen the debate to include some remarks about the Canada pension plan. I know the Minister of Finance will say that is not in the budget figures, therefore it really does not matter. We all know that last week he announced an increase of 70 per cent on CPP premiums. That is going to take $10 billion a year out of business.

I remember in the last election how the Liberals ran around trying to drum up votes by saying "we will create jobs, jobs, jobs through a $6 billion infrastructure program". Well, good-bye infrastructure, good-bye a $6 billion incentive for business because now they are going to suck $10 billion out of the business world.

That is why I think we should be using Ross Perot's words, the great sucking sound of jobs disappearing, not down to Mexico as in the case of Mr. Perot, but sucking out of our economy because the Minister of Finance is sucking this money out of the pockets of business.

Let us take a look at the seniors benefit. Let us take a look at what Minister of Finance is actually talking about for seniors. Not only is he going to kill these jobs with the 70 per cent increase in premiums, but, as I said earlier today, the old age security is going to be gone. It is going to be killed, finished and gone forever.

Guaranteed income supplements that many people have relied upon in this country will be gone. In the year 2001 they will be finished and gone forever.

Seniors have been given a $3,500 tax free allowance on top of the basic exemption. That is gone courtesy of this finance minister; gone, killed, finished forever.

Seniors have been entitled to the first $1,000 of pension income tax free. Let me tell this House that tax free exemption is going to be gone, absolutely finished courtesy of the Minister of Finance.

He has the gall to stand up in this House to say he is going to replace it with a seniors benefit that is going to make everybody happy. Let me tell this House about the seniors benefit that he thinks is going to make everybody happy.

If a person has any income besides the seniors benefit, and let us talk about a senior who only has the seniors benefit and Canada pension, nothing else in the world, the Minister of Finance is going to take back half of the Canada pension plan.

It has to be a national disgrace that he can stand here and say this is good for seniors when he is going to take back half the Canada pension plan and all they have is a seniors benefit and Canada pension plan.

Then he has the gall to stand up and say Canada pension plan premiums are an investment, when no one will even be able to collect the Canada pension plan when they retire. That is the way this government is trying to balance the budget. It is through deception and through misleading senior citizens into thinking everything is going to be okay, but it is not.

Universality that was brought in by the finance minister's father is going to be destroyed by finance minister junior. That is the way it is. There is no universality any more. It is gone courtesy of this Minister of Finance. That is the legacy that he is giving to Canadians.

I look at the flowery words in the budget speech and I refer to the bottom of page 17 where it states: "Reforms to both the Canada pension plan and the seniors benefit fully protect all current seniors". If we read it fast it sounds pretty good but I draw attention to the word current, all current seniors. There is no word about seniors to be, no word about the working people who have to pay more to collect less. With a little sleight of hand a little word is slipped in. It is grammatically correct but when we look at the real meaning behind it we will find that seniors, the people who will retire in the future will get a lot less after having paid a lot more.

I talked also about the employment insurance and the scandal that is being perpetrated on the business world of this country. This morning the estimates were tabled. In part III under Human Resources Development Canada at the bottom of page 52 I see for 1996-97 a $6 billion surplus and the projected surplus for next year is $5.656 billion.

That is a travesty because the employment insurance fund is supposed to be self-sustaining to help people who lose their jobs when the business cycle is down. It is not an extra tax trough for the Minister of Finance. The minister said: "I am not raising taxes". Of course he is. He should not under any circumstances whatsoever maintain the EI premium where it is because of the huge surplus he is squeezing out of business.

The minister came out with a little sum for the young people, the university graduates saying: "I am going to spend a couple of hundred million dollars to try and get you a job". At the same time he is taking $6 billion out of the business world so that they cannot get a job. Note the numbers.

I look at pages 10 and 11 of the budget and how the numbers are glossed over. On page 11, payroll taxes, the minister said: "When we came to office, we acted immediately to stop EI premium rates from rising". Well maybe he did, but he certainly did not bring them down as he should have. While he says he is going to bring them down, it will not be for another year so that he can squeeze this money out of business and stand in the House again to say: "Boy, I am doing a great job". Business bankruptcies are at a record high; personal bankruptcies are at a record high; 1.5 million people are out of a job; and one in four working Canadians fear for their jobs because he is sucking $6 billion a year out of the business economy.

What about the health and social transfer? Government members stand in the House and say: "We will protect medicare". Protect medicare, my foot. Compare the figures for this year to those for last year and again the figures are taken right out of the estimates. The transfer for 1996-97 is $14.9 billion. That is a lot of money. Not as much as the government used to give, but it is still a lot of money. However, next year it will be $12.5 billion, a drop of $2.4 billion.

That affects a lot of hospitals. That is a lot for medicare. That is a lot of nurses and doctors who could be looking after the people in this country who need help. For the elective surgery that does not get done, $2.4 billion buys a lot. It is not being bought and it is not being provided. People are doing without because the government is keeping back $2.4 billion so the Minister of Finance can say: "Boy, am I doing a great job".

Perhaps the deficit is coming down, but he could bring it down even more. However the Liberal tendency is to spend every nickel they can find. The minister cannot keep his fingers off any money that might be available. I look at page 16 of his budget speech where he said that he intends to spend 25 per cent of any excess over projections so that he can blow it away on little Liberal programs that are going to buy votes in the next election.

Let us remember that the excess over the budget predictions, the deficit having come down faster than he predicted, was accomplished strictly on the backs of businesses and taxpayers. Now that he has squeezed more money out of them than he had originally anticipated, he is going to take 25 per cent of it to buy votes at the next election. It is despicable.

My friend for Calgary Centre gave the finance minister an F for failing to deliver a budget with integrity; for failing to deliver the kind of budget which Canadians deserve; for failing to deliver jobs; for failing to deliver health care; for failing to deliver education; and for failing to look after our seniors.

That is how I feel about this budget.

[John Harvard, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I have been listening intently to the member for St. Albert. He made some rather negative comments about the Canada pension plan. I would invite the member to come to one of the several senior citizens homes in my riding and say the denigrating things that he has said about the Canada pension plan. I am wondering how long he would last in a senior citizens home.

Elderly men and women worked hard to build this country. They worked hard to support the Canada pension plan. They contributed a considerable amount of their own wealth to the Canada pension plan. The very last thing they want is for some government to abandon their hopes and the Canada pension plan.

The word from the senior citizens of this country to the government has been very clear: "We want you to secure the Canada pension plan. We want you to secure the future of the Canada pension plan. We dare you to destroy the Canada pension plan. We dare you to weaken the Canada pension plan".

Government members have listened to those people and we have responded. We have done exactly that. We have secured the future of the Canada pension plan. We have done that because Canadians have told us that we must show that we have a social conscience and that we have a collective responsibility to each other, which is totally unlike the Reform Party of Canada. That party believes in a kind of pernicious individualism; everybody for themselves; the law of the jungle, that we do not care for each other.

Those are not our values. They are not the values of Canadians. They are certainly not the values of the elderly citizens of this country. We support the Canada pension plan.

Of course the Reform Party neglects to say that the contributions to the CPP will be increased over a period of six years. The premiums have been increased because we want to secure the future of the CPP. That is exactly what we have done.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, let me say to the hon. member that I would be more than glad to visit the seniors in his riding. However, if I went to explain the Liberal policy, I feel that I would not last too long in that senior citizens home.

This is the Liberal plan which was announced by the Minister of Finance a year ago. This is not a Reform plan. It is not my plan and it is not the plan of the parliamentary secretary. This plan was announced by the Minister of Finance. Let me go over it again.

Old age security is completely gone. The guaranteed income supplement is gone. The $3,500 tax free for seniors is gone. The first $1,000 of pension income for seniors is gone. These four things are gone completely. In their place will be a seniors benefit.

I explained it before but in case the parliamentary secretary did not get it quite clear, let me say it again. If the retired people in the seniors home in his riding only have the seniors benefit and Canada pension plan, the Minister of Finance will take half the Canada pension plan. That is the Liberal proposal. That is why I would get run out of that seniors citizens home if I started to explain Liberal policy.

The parliamentary secretary stands and says: "We secured the CPP". Let me also say that he secured the MPPP, the MPs pension plan that he participates in and which he has secured for himself. It will pay tens of thousands of dollars to him each and every year while the government will pay a mere pittance to other seniors which it will tax back if it ever thinks they are going to make any money. But there is no clawback and no tax back on the MP pension plan. Oh, no. We would not want that would we?

The member stands and says that he has secured the pension plan. He has secured a better one for himself, a lot better for himself, a great deal better for himself. We have heard of the tens of thousands of dollars that some MPs are going to collect. That is the hypocrisy.

[John Murphy, Liberal, Annapolis Valley—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Mississauga West.

It is a great pleasure to rise in my place today to speak in support of our government's 1997 budget. This budget reflects the very values and institutions that we cherish as Canadians. It highlights our commitment to health care, to improved access to education and training opportunities, and to working to improve the well-being of children and our young people.

It is a budget that underscores the principles of fairness and putting people first. It contains important measures that will give more Canadians the opportunity to participate fully and actively in the life of our country. This is not just a Liberal budget, it is a budget that we as Canadians can be proud of.

When our government took office in 1993, the nation's finances were in disarray. The deficit stood at $42 billion, unemployment was at 11.4 per cent and the very future of our social programs was under threat. What a difference four years have made. This year our deficit will be no higher than $19 billion and in 1998-99 our government will no longer need to borrow new money from our financial markets. In short, we are regaining our financial sovereignty.

The people of my riding of Annapolis Valley-Hants have made sacrifices over the last few years in the name of deficit reduction. All Canadians have been made to do with less in terms of federal programs and services. Many of my constituents have reminded me that deficit reduction does have a human face. They have said: "If you cut programs indiscriminately, real people and families will suffer". That is why I am proud of our government's approach to deficit reduction. By moving at a responsible pace, we have dramatically reduced our deficit while preserving Canada's social safety net.

I have always seen our deficit reduction efforts as a means to a greater end. While we must continue to follow a path of fiscal prudence and responsibility, we can now see a light at the end of the tunnel. We now have a certain amount of flexibility to invest in the future of our people and in the future of Canada.

Let us take a moment to look at the troubling level of child poverty and how this impacts upon Canada. Last December I had the opportunity to participate in a prebudget debate in this House. At that time I joined with colleagues from all sides of the House in stating unequivocally that the rate of child poverty in Canada was unacceptably high.

Too many Canadian children are not getting the start they need to become healthy, happy and productive adults. This is not only a personal tragedy but is a loss for a nation as a whole. Our government is taking important steps to address these problems.

As the Minister of Finance announced in his remarks on Tuesday, our government is committed along with our provincial counterparts to a new cross-Canada child benefit system. We will increase federal spending on children by $850 million by July 1998. This includes $600 million of new money on top of the $250 million announced in last year's budget.

Under the new approach the new Canada child tax benefit will go to all eligible families, those working and those on welfare. That will allow provincial governments to take some of the money they currently spend on welfare and redirect it into the services and programs for working poor families, such as in the area of child

care. As the Minister of Finance also said in his budget speech, there can be no more worthy effort that a new partnership on behalf of Canada's children.

I also want to endorse our government's hundred million dollar commitment to two important programs. I am referring of course to the community action program for children and the prenatal nutritional program. I have seen firsthand the benefits of proactive early childhood health programs. I can say unequivocally that these programs are truly making a difference for children and families across Canada.

In the months leading up to the budget I worked closely with the Nova Scotia Association of Family Resource Projects in its effort to create greater awareness and understanding of the benefits of this type of programming. I brought its concerns to Ottawa and to this House. I am pleased that the government is responding to the needs of Canada's children.

I want to take the opportunity to thank all of those front line workers and volunteers who work so diligently to make these programs successful both in Annapolis Valley-Hants and in the communities across this country.

Our commitment to health care does not stop there. Our government will also provide $150 million over the next three years to help the provinces put in place projects that will enable them to test new ways in which our health system can be improved. Projects could include new approaches to home care, drug coverage and other innovations.

Prior to entering the field of politics my entire working life was spent in the health field. I know that health care ingenuity has excelled in my riding. I also know that when it comes to new ideas and better ways to deliver health care services the professionals and the citizens living and working in Annapolis Valley-Hants will rise to the forefront.

I would like now to turn for a moment to discuss the important topics of jobs and growth and particularly our efforts in rural Canada. Annapolis Valley-Hants, as the House knows, is predominately a rural riding. Those of us who live in rural communities face unique challenges as we work to preserve and enhance economic opportunities.

I was pleased therefore to listen to the Minister of Finance as he committed our government to ensure that rural Canada has every opportunity to fully participate in everything this government has to offer. Let me show some of the facts.

Our government is making a $50 million investment in the Farm Credit Corporation. We are investing $45 million over three years in the Canadian Tourism Commission. We are contributing an additional $30 million to the community access program. Our government is raising the ceiling under the Small Business Loans Act from $12 billion to $14 billion and we are reducing the paper burden for small businesses by allowing many of them to file quarterly reports rather than monthly reports.

This will greatly reduce their costs, their time burden and they will be able to hold their money longer.

All of these measures, combined with the initiatives such as the extension of the infrastructure program, the $350 million youth employment program and the extension of the residential rehabilitation assistance program, will effectively respond to the challenges facing rural Canada and allow for more innovation and growth, both in my riding and in communities and businesses across this country.

Knowledge and education are the key to long term economic success for any nation. This is again part of the infrastructure that we are investing into as government. Our government recognizes that by investing in education and innovation now we will see a tremendous payback over the long term.

Last November I attended a student rally at Acadia university in my riding. At this event many students told me that one of the greatest problems they faced was a growing personal debt burden. I brought these concerns back to Ottawa and joined with many of my colleagues here in addressing the question how to help students and families cope with the costs.

Our government has taken a number of important measures and as a result of this budget federal support for post-secondary education will increase by $137 million in 1997. We are doubling the annual contribution limits for the registered education savings plan. We have introduced provisions to allow students to carry forward unused education credits indefinitely. We are doubling the educational tax credit and we have extended interest relief on student loans for those who are unable to make their payments from 18 to 30 months.

As well, our government is establishing the Canada Foundation for Innovation. I belief this program is tailor made for Nova Scotians and institutions such as Acadia University, pharmaceutical companies and health institutions, all of which are in my riding. This program will help Canada's research infrastructure.

This budget builds on our previous efforts and sets a clear course for a brighter future. A course that will-

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member's time has expired.

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to the comments of the member for Annapolis Valley-Hants.

Naturally, since he is on the government side, he is trying very hard to sell that budget to Canadians.

I would like to ask if he feels comfortable knowing that the Minister of Finance's deficit reduction, his great accomplishment, has been achieved thanks to the $5 billion cuts in unemployment insurance and the $4.5 billion cuts in transfers to the provinces.

He speaks about the measures implemented by the government, but we say they are a mere pittance, nothing but election goodies. He speaks about farm credit, but I must remind the House that farm credit does not mean grants; it means credit and therefore, debt. The figures represent loans and not costs for the government. The government simply makes the money available, but the amounts have to be paid back.

As far as students are concerned, I was in charge of the youth portfolio until a few months ago and I can tell the House the situation for young people is appalling; they are loaded down with debts. What measures is the government taking? It is giving the students more time before they have to start paying back their loans. That will not solve the problem of student debt, it will not help reduce the high number of student bankruptcies in Canada. There is something missing and that something is job creation.

I wonder if the member is comfortable with that idea. He comes from a rural area and he must realize that, in the end, most of the cuts were made at the expense of the provinces and the needy.

[John Murphy, Liberal, Annapolis Valley—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for the question.

He talks about the deficit. We need to get that deficit down. If we did not get that deficit down more we would have had to do more cutting in our transfer payments. That is a given.

We have started to get it down. Because we have it down, we can now use our efforts of deficit cutting as a spring board to begin creating more opportunities for people, applying the budget more to the needs of people. We have done this.

He raises the question of the Farm Credit Corporation and $50 million. It would be nice if we could have done more, but it is a beginning, a reinvestment, a turning around of some of the savings that people have struggled with to help the Canadian government to bring down the deficit.

Our farmers are very innovative. I do not know about the farmers in his area, but the farmers in my area are very innovative and they will be able to use the money to create more opportunities to build their businesses and hire more people. As an end result there will be more growth and more people will pay income tax.

We have a number of examples. In our budget we have tried to put in place spring board opportunities for people to get on with developing the economy.

I would ask the hon. member to take a look at those initiatives in a positive fashion.

[The Deputy Speaker]

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Parry Sound-Muskoka, rural development; the hon. member for London-Middlesex, housing.

[Carolyn Parrish, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure today to speak in favour of the Liberal government's 1997 budget.

This budget, the fourth of the Liberal government, is likely the one that defines the true nature of the Liberal government, balancing the needs of fiscal health with the concerns about key social issues.

Over the past three and a half years it is clear that the economic priority of the government is deficit reduction. We are the first government in history to have seriously attacked the deficit and wrestled this country's finances under control.

Previous governments talked about deficits while continuing to overspend. We acted. In 1993 our finances rivalled those of third world countries. We spent fully $42 billion more than we took in, 6 per cent of gross domestic product. In fact, throughout its stay in office the previous Tory government was overspending its budget by approximately 30 per cent every year.

This year the deficit will be no higher than $19 billion and by 1998-99 it is projected to stand at $9 billion or about 1 per cent of gross domestic product. In four short years a balanced budget is finally within our grasp.

How did we work this magic, a magic that eluded the best Tory minds? We have stopped spending more than we earned. We cut government spending and began to live within our means. Canada is now on a clear path toward fiscal health and is the envy of most of the world's industrialized nations.

Renewed confidence in the Canadian economy has also helped to keep interest rates down, 19 reductions over the last 20 months. In the last year alone short term interest rates fell 5 percentage points. The prime rate is at its lowest since 1956. For the first time in more than decade interest rates are lower in Canada than they are in the United States.

Our current deficit reduction course has increased investor confidence, allowing interest rates to decline. Lower interest rates make it easier for consumers to buy homes and durable goods and

for businesses to invest in new facilities, equipment and employees.

The economy as a whole is benefiting. Exports are at record highs, successive Team Canada missions have attracted $22 billion in deals for Canadian business. Exports account for 37 per cent of our GDP. The importance of trade to this country's economy is more than obvious. It is estimated that for every $1 billion in exports we have 11,000 to 12,000 quality jobs in Canada. In 1997 Canada's economy will grow faster and have a higher job creation rate than any other G-7 country, including the U.S. A sustained and successive attack on the deficit inspires world confidence, world trade and world envy.

Many have urged the government over the recent months to ease the purse strings and to announce major increases in expenditure. Some see the light at the end of the tunnel and want to start spending. I do not agree with these people. I believe that major spending increases at this time would send the wrong message to the international community and to the Canadian public. It would tell Canadians that the hard work we have invested into reducing the size of government can all be negated, that past efforts should be undone. It also threatens to undermine our deficit reduction strategy prematurely, quitting in the last hours of a long and tiresome job, a job that is not quite done. It would also cause many old Tory wags to nod sagely: "There goes those tax and spend Liberals again buying the next election".

The deficit battle has inevitably affected some more than others. It is our responsibility as good government and as good Liberals to respond to those affected. To this end, the government has targeted key areas for investment. It is this type of targeted funding that leads to real impact, real changes and real solutions to social problems.

Among the announced initiatives are increased tax assistance to students, the creation of a foundation to support research infrastructure, investment to aid in the reform of Canadian health care, an increase in the child tax benefit and an increase in incentives for charitable giving.

The time has ended for throwing money at problems. This fourth in a series of responsible budgets shows us government spending must be clear, concise, planned and focused.

From 1985 to 1991, I served as a trustee on the appeal board of education, several years as chair. At that time, budgetary pressures were beginning to set in and it was clear that new strategies would have to be adopted. During my stay, along with some other colleagues, I suggested the administration implement rolling budget targets, setting spending goals at least two years in advance, not only as a constraint on board spending but as a realistic monitor of financial progress. We were unsuccessful at that time.

We have only to look at the current difficulties of school boards in Ontario to see where the lack of long term planning and preventive action have taken them. They have learned painfully that one can no longer live for today. One must continually plan for tomorrow, as the Minister of Finance has done.

Our current level of unemployment is still unacceptable. We should be doing better. But if there is anything we have learned in the last decade it is that throwing money into random job creation programs is not a long term solution. Governments cannot create jobs. They can create, foster and maintain the conditions necessary for a healthy economy in which the private sector can create jobs. In fact, our successful fiscal management has done just that.

Economists are predicting the economy will grow over 3 per cent in 1997 and 1998 creating between 600,000 and 700,000 new jobs over that period. In fact, since the government took office and put this country's finances back on track, the Canadian economy has created 715,000 new, primarily full time jobs.

Earlier I spoke of Canada as a model of modern economic change. Canada is making the most headway in deficit reduction and, at the same time, realizing the best job creation record in the G7 this year. Government overspending leads to economic ruin. Fiscal management leads to economic growth.

There are other alternatives in this budget that I would like to talk about a bit more specifically. I have been supporting for some time now the idea of targeted tax reductions to benefit children. I was an active supporter of the recent private member's bills initiated by the member for Mississauga South both on increasing the child care expense deduction and creating a tax credit for stay at home caregivers.

Children need proper resources and proper care in order to flourish in this society. Any level of child poverty is intolerable. We must do all we can to improve assistance to children of low income families. This budget has proposed a spending increase in the child tax benefit of $600 million annually in addition to the $250 million announced in the 1996 budget. The budget will also enrich the working income supplement by $195 million.

These measures are all specifically targeted to low income families to improve living conditions for Canadian children and give low income families the support they need to stay in the workforce rather than rely on continued public assistance.

The second area of particular interest is the voluntary and charitable sector in Canada. In 1995, I chaired a caucus subcommittee looking at government grants and contributions, primarily to

the volunteer sector. Our committee met with many charitable groups, including the National Volunteer Organization and the Canadian Centre for Philanthropy. They realized that reductions in government grants and contributions were both necessary and inevitable as governments scale down across the board.

The committee agreed that scarce government funds should also be more specifically targeted and that reform of granting process was needed. The government should consider ways to stimulate private charitable giving while it continues to reduce direct funding.

This budget recognizes that the charitable and voluntary sectors in Canada are extremely valuable to our social well-being. While we cannot continue to provide increased direct funding to these organizations, we must make every effort to ensure this sector does not die.

The 1997 budget increases the amount of donations for which a person can claim a tax credit from 50 per cent to 75 per cent of income. Further, this budget has facilitated larger charitable donations, putting the Canadian system on par with the U.S.

We have also reduced the rate at which capital gains on charitable donations are calculated from 75 per cent to 37.5 per cent. These measures will encourage private charitable giving and ensure that the charitable and voluntary sectors in Canada have access to the funds they need to remain in operation.

Additional measures announced in the budget will address the question of accountability in Canada's third sector by giving Revenue Canada additional resources to ensure charities comply with the Income Tax Act and by increasing the availability of information filed by charities. These are measures which many of us have been calling for for some time.

For the benefit of my constituents, I would like to address the GST question. Over the past year I have proposed that the government should use the savings generated by its beating successive deficit targets-about $5 billion-to reduce the GST by two points or 30 per cent. In fact, I have been saying that the government should make this reduction since the summer of 1995. I believe reducing the GST by one-third would stimulate retail spending and provide some relief to Canadians without undoing all of the hard work we have accomplished since we took office. However, the Minister of Finance took the time to personally explain to me why this will not work.

While we may be able to afford to do it in year one and year two, by year three we would not have the money to continue. In short, we cannot absorb the revenue loss. I accept his explanation.

I have always maintained that we should remain on our present course of deficit reduction. In fact, we have not saved $5 billion. We are still paying off horrendous national debts.

As my responsibility to the constituents of Mississauga West I brought this proposal to caucus, I fought for it and I learned about its deficiencies. That is the essence of dialogue.

In conclusion, I would like to congratulate the Minister of Finance on yet another outstanding budget. I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on its merits.

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps I will give the hon. member an opportunity to complete what she meant to say by asking my questions.

Listening to her, I felt she had great concern for the family and for children, which is laudable. I also heard her talk about her attempts to have the finance minister soften his position about the GST. I have some questions in this respect.

As a member of Parliament, is she sensitive to the requests of Bloc members who want to obtain for Quebec the same compensation, which would amount to $2 billion, as that granted to the maritime provinces with regard to the GST? That was my first question.

My other question deals with the amounts provided for children. Does the hon. member think that another $33 for every child living in poverty is enough? Will this really improve the situation of children?

It is all very well to talk about millions of dollars, but we know that 1.5 million children are living below the poverty level in Canada. That is a lot of people. We may sometimes talk about amounts like $200 million, but when this amount is divided among all recipients, it does not look so impressive.

Therefore, I would ask the hon. member whether she is really satisfied and whether she really thinks that this will improve the situation of poor children in Canada.

[Carolyn Parrish, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member opposite for his question.

As a parent, as a responsible Canadian and as a former teacher, any form of child poverty is intolerable. The Minister of Finance mentioned that when he presented his budget.

The 1.5 million Canadian children that live in poverty are a blight on all of us. However, the situation was not created overnight and it cannot be repaired overnight. The minister has made it very clear that it is a serious concern of the government. However, unless we get the deficit under control, unless we get the economy back in shape and get everything in order, there will be more than 1.5 million children in poverty.

We are trying to do what good government does. It is a balancing act. It is repairing the deficit damage which will hurt more children, while slowly turning the corner to help as many children as we can.

It is a start and we will do much better as the economy gets stronger and stronger.

[John English, Liberal, Kitchener, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the member for Mississauga West. She has often commented on the GST. Could she comment on the Ontario provincial government's attitude and her own attitude toward the question of the GST?

[Carolyn Parrish, Liberal, Mississauga West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to comment on the GST and Ontario's attitude toward it.

The government is working very hard to come up with a proper harmonization position with Ontario. I recall that the premier in Ontario said when he was running for election that the first order of business would be to come up with a harmonized tax with the federal government. He seems to have forgotten that promise so I am going to do all I can to encourage him to harmonize, as he should do so all the residents of Ontario can benefit.

[Maurice Bernier, Bloc, Mégantic—Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to participate in this debate on the budget speech. As some of my colleagues might expect, I have a number of comments to make on the budget measures that impact specifically on persons with disabilities.

The budget tabled in the House by the Minister of Finance this week contains a number of measures aimed specifically at persons with disabilities. The Bloc Quebecois will look at these measures to determine whether or not, in our opinion, the proposed measures meet the expectations of the organizations representing persons with disabilities and address to a reasonable extent the problems faced by persons with disabilities in Canada and Quebec.

Let me preface my speech on persons with disabilities by a few more general remarks. All observers agree that the budget tabled by the Minister of Finance this week is nothing but smoke and mirrors. The primary purpose of this budget is to be used as an election platform in the next campaign, to show all our fellow citizens across Canada and Quebec that this government did fulfil its commitments, so that it can, in all good faith, ask the voters to put their faith in it again and get re-elected.

In fact, the finance minister's budget is part of an advertising campaign launched by the government. Unfortunately, on closer scrutiny, we realize that it is misleading advertising. If the Minister of Finance, and his budget in particular, were subject to the Quebec consumer protection act, charges could be laid for misleading advertising.

What we must realize about this budget is that, what is important in this budget is not what it says, what it does not say or anything that was said previously. We know that the budget before us is nothing but a good news budget, aimed at convincing our fellow citizens that the problems are solved and that the deficit will be eliminated within a few years, thanks to the government's efforts within its own administration.

The reality is that the cuts made to social programs in the past three budgets, the cuts made to transfer payments to the provinces, will limit the provinces' ability to meet the needs of the most disadvantaged and, as a result, make our fellow citizens poorer than they were when this government assumed power in 1993.

That is the reality. That is not what the budget says, but it is the reality. The government acknowledges this, because it acknowledges that today there are 1.5 million children living in poverty, 500,000 more than when it came to power in 1993. The measures announced, moreover, do nothing to solve this problem in any way. We shall return to this point.

Essentially, this is a smoke-and-mirrors budget, which has only one objective: to convince our fellow citizens on the eve of an electoral campaign that all of the problems are settled and that we are now entering an era of prosperity. Two days after the tabling of the budget, nobody has been taken in.

We saw the reaction of most analysts, and I am convinced that the public's reaction will be similar. These people realized that, even though the finance minister tears his hair out every day during oral question period, even though he whines a lot, the plight of our fellow citizens is not getting any better.

Think about the disabled and take a look at the impact of the decisions made in that budget. Requests tmade for years by just about every organization representing people with disabilities were behind the recommendations of the Standing Committee on Human Rights and the Status of Persons with Disabilities, in a unanimous report tabled in this House in December 1995. In other words, the official opposition and the Reform Party essentially supported the recommendations contained in that report.

It is worth taking a look at these recommendations, to see whether the government delivered. These recommendations provided, among other things, that the Government of Canada should designate a minister or a secretary of state to be responsible for the status of persons with disabilities. What was the government's response to that request? The Minister of Human Resources Development was designated as the person responsible for this issue.

Given the decisions made by that minister, and particularly the conception he has of his department's role, we can only conclude that people with disabilities are even worse off than they were when there was no one to speak for them.

Another recommendation provided that, each year, a report should be tabled in the House to review the status of requests made by people with disabilities. We are waiting for that report. I certainly hope that in the coming months we will see a document from the government explaining what has actually been done.

We also requested that a more liberal, in the good sense of the word, interpretation be allowed in the application of the tax credit so that the disabled could truly benefit. What we saw, and unfortunately continue to see, is a somewhat restrictive application, with the result that a good number of the disabled are not able to take advantage of the tax credits offered by the government.

It is one thing to say: "We are going to propose new tax credits, to improve existing credits". It is quite another to see how these measures are applied. In other words, how many people can take advantage of them? And, more to the point, how many people cannot take advantage of them, despite the fact that they are recognized as disabled.

Then, there are other recommendations concerning, for example, grants to disabled persons organizations; I will come back to this. The recommendations we made were partially taken into account.

Following this report, the then Minister of Human Resources Development, now Minister of National Defence, who must have been getting ready for his new role, literally threw the human rights committee's recommendations out the window. Not only did he not take them into account, but he literally gave them the axe. And since he is now the defence minister, I should say he used a bazooka to completely eliminate any grants to disabled persons organizations. This was the decision taken by the former Minister of Human Resources Development, now the defence minister, over a year ago. The disabled community was utterly dismayed.

Following protests by representatives of organizations and by the official opposition, which hounded the government in this House, a committee was formed. This committee tabled its report last fall and recommendations are also contained in the present budget.

Unfortunately, although the hon. member for Fredericton-York-Sunbury, who headed this committee, worked in good faith, and showed considerable openness to organizations of disabled persons, we in the official opposition spoke out against the committee because it included no representation from either the official opposition or the Reform Party. In our opinion, therefore, it was a partisan committee to which, fortunately, representatives of organizations for the disabled were added, and this has made it possible for it to come up with some recommendations which reflect reality.

Today, then, we find ourselves faced with a certain number of measures I would like, if I may, to comment on one by one, since that is the main purpose of my speech.

First of all, it is stated that the tax credits of the past will continue unchanged. They will continue, and the disabled will be able to take advantage of them, as in the past. But, as I have just said, if the Minister of Revenue and her officials continue to apply the various tax credits in a restrictive way, the net result will be that the disabled will be as badly off as they were in the past.

What we want from this government-and the Minister of Finance has not given us any reassurance in this area-is for someone to tell us how the tax credits referred to in this budget will be applied. This was recommended by both the human rights committee and the Liberal committee set up later. It had been decided to improve the tax credit for medical expenses.

Naturally, four or five measures are referred to. They speak of adapting vehicles, where expenses will be exempt up to a ceiling of $5,000, and the purchase of an air conditioner, to a ceiling of $1,000. By the way, the recommendation made by the committee chaired by the hon. member for Fredericton-York-Sunbury wanted this tax credit to apply to any kind of material assistance and not just to air conditioners, for instance. Surprisingly, the Minister of Finance took the example used in the recommendation and included it in his speech or his budget, without considering all the other equipment that is absolutely indispensable for people with disabilities.

I do not know whether this was an oversight or ignorance of the needs of people with disabilities, but air conditioners are fine, except that right now air conditioners are not terribly useful. There are a lot of other material aids that are just as important.

There is also a reference to access ramps. The purpose is, of course, to help people with disabilities when they have to leave their homes to go about their usual business like anyone else. If they have to go to class or to go work, they have to be able to do so.

There is also a reference to those who care for people with disabilities. These measures will be an improvement for all Canadians, with the exception of persons with disabilities in Quebec. Why do I say this? Because I know Liberal members will say the Bloc Quebecois is complaining again, that it thinks Quebecers are being mistreated by the federal government. Well, it is true. Today, during question period, I heard the Minister of Human Resources Development say that Quebec was getting more than its share of

federal funding, that Quebecers were cry babies and spent most of their time complaining with a full stomach.

[Some hon. members]

It is true.

[Maurice Bernier, Bloc, Mégantic—Compton—Stanstead, QC]

I hear our Liberal colleagues say that is true. I hope they repeat that during the election campaign.

I said, regarding the tax credits given for adapting vehicles, building access ramps and the purchase of specialized equipment, that a program already exists in Quebec, a universal program that applies to all citizens of Quebec, irrespective of their income, and covers the total cost of these special needs. This means Quebecers are going to pay twice: they will pay 100 per cent of the cost for residents of Quebec and part of the cost for people living outside Quebec, through the tax credit.

I hope that my colleague from Fredericton-York-Sunbury will respond to this request when it is his time to speak on the budget. I hope that the federal government will compensate Quebec for this measure, which, I repeat, will penalize Quebec taxpayers, since services will be paid for twice, and people with disabilities in Quebec are already totally covered for these needs.

Mr. Speaker, you say I have three minutes left. I want to use them to talk of the opportunities fund. There will no doubt be questions allowing me the opportunity to talk more about it. One of the things requested by groups of persons with disabilities was the retention of national standards on work adjustment programs and measures giving them greater access to the job market.

The Bloc Quebecois objected to this measure because it considers that manpower training, workplace adjustment and material assistance to people with disabilities are provincial matters from which the federal government should withdraw, as it says it wants to, instead of creating new funds to intervene in areas of provincial jurisdiction.

Even if we see that this fund could help people with disabilities return to work, its application is very limited. Let me explain.

First we must obtain the support of the groups representing the handicapped, the private sector and the provincial governments. Immediately it is clear that this fund could take months or years to see the light of day, if it ever does. So it is easy to set an amount when it will certainly never be spent. However, if it did get spent one day, it would be in areas of provincial jurisdiction and it would be an experiment. That is essentially what they are saying.

Apparently, the fund will be used to finance the development of strategies to eliminate barriers preventing Canadians from getting back onto the job market. Developing strategies will not resolve the unemployment problem, with a rate of unemployment of more than 40 per cent among persons with disabilities. These are not the kind of measures that will help them.

What the government should do, first of all and as soon as possible, is transfer manpower to Quebec and other interested provinces and put in place real training programs for persons with disabilities, programs that take their limitations into account by adapting work stations and, more importantly, ensuring that they can get jobs matching their abilities. That is what is required. Unfortunately, that is not what we find in this budget.

I realize that my time is up. I will conclude on this, but I would like to add that I hope to get a few questions to give me an opportunity to elaborate.

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Fredericton—York—Sunbury, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to comment on the comments made by my friend from the Bloc and I recognize immediately his genuine commitment in this area. We are co-members of the parliamentary committee and I admire his genuine dedication to the cause of this community. Having said that, we do disagree on some things.

I would bring to his attention the fact that when he asks about what more there may be to come I would go directly to the budget speech where the Minister of Finance said: "These measures are a step on the way to a better life for many thousands of our fellow citizens". I am sure the Minister of Finance is quite prepared to be reminded that this is just a step as we move into subsequent budgets that I am sure this government will be around to present.

One of the questions that was put by my friend had to do with the fact that perhaps the opportunities fund was speaking to a matter of provincial jurisdiction. The way that the fund has been designed is to be very collaborative with the provincial governments, to share information between provincial governments, to work with provincial governments because clearly this is a challenge to all levels of government. It is very important that the member realize to what extent this is a collaborative effort and not one imposed by the federal government.

On the question of real costs and the complaints that have been placed against the tax credits in the past, that the interpretation of their application has been too rigid, there are two points. First, the minister responsible, my colleague will remember when she appeared before the parliamentary committee, made a commitment that she has made to me many times that the department would exercise maximum compassion in interpreting theses. She has appeared before our group since that time to repeat that commitment.

I would also suggest that the member be aware that the changes to the tax system that were announced in the budget and that were recommended by the task force for the most part are very measurable. The are real costs under the medical services expense credit and therefore the vagueness of more definitional kinds of credits does not apply.

The member referred to the parliamentary committee report and what it asked for as against the government's task force that I chaired. The fact is most of the people who were critical of the task force report were critical on the grounds that obviously the government was not going to act on it because it was pretty much the same material as was contained in the parliamentary report that the government had not acted on so therefore what is the point?

The reality is that the government, in this case, has acted on our report and many of the measures it did act on were measures the parliamentary committee had recommended last year. The government made a mistake by not acting on that report. We acknowledged that and that is why the task force was struck and most of those things have been restored.

Very specifically, the funding for organizations, for enhanced citizenship in the communities and for integration were all restored. VRDP, vocational rehabilitation of disabled persons, was extended for another year. These are all things that the member had been pushing for in the many questions to the former minister of human resources development.

I am getting to a question for my colleague. I sincerely hope that my colleague could tell me which of the recommendations of the task force or the parliamentary committee he would priorize as the one that we should go after next.

[Maurice Bernier, Bloc, Mégantic—Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, before answering the question from the hon. member for Fredericton-York-Sunbury, I want to comment briefly on his remarks. First, the hon. member acknowledges that the government and the human resources minister at the time, the current Minister of National Defence, made monumental mistakes which, unfortunately, were endorsed by the government.

Thanks to representations made by organizations looking after people with disabilities, and also by the official opposition, the government finally realized the enormity of these errors, and some changes were made in the funding provided to these organizations. I recognize it in the budget. In fact, it was announced last January. Corrective measures were taken to restore the situation to what it was before 1996, to restore grants to what they were in 1995.

It is difficult to take for granted that improvements such as these augur well for the future, that we should rest easy and assume that the federal government will propose other measures to improve the lot of the disabled, such as the integration fund, when we know that the government not only has a tendency to interfere in provincial jurisdictions, but that it is still actively doing so.

Yesterday, the Prime Minister willingly admitted to journalists-as can be seen in nearly all of today's daily newspapers-that the federal government was getting involved in areas of provincial jurisdiction, but only temporarily, and would withdraw within a few years. That is really thumbing their noses at people. They are telling us that the federal government is putting money into this just to bug the provincial governments and then, once they have created a need and people come back for more, they will take pull out and take their money with them. What a hateful thing to admit to.

In response to my colleague's question as to which priorities with respect to the disabled the federal government was to be responsible for, a commitment has been made, and it was made several times by the Minister of Justice, for instance, to amend human rights legislation to provide that employers would be obliged to adapt work stations.

The Minister of Justice said that once the government had dealt with the matter of same sex couples or sexual orientation and employment equity, it would introduce amendments to help people with disabilities enter the labour market. That was one of the proposals.

We, and this includes persons with disabilities, are still waiting for the legislation, because this is a very practical measure. In fact any measure, not just experiments, but any measure that will help people with disabilities get into the labour market will be welcome.

People with disabilities do not want to be treated like people who cannot participate in the economy and their community. They want the means to do so. This includes transportation that is adapted to their needs, which means adapting vehicles and adapting accommodation, but it also means special training programs.

So the federal government should reach an agreement as soon as possible with Quebec, as far as the Bloc Quebecois is concerned, but in fact with all provinces that want to patriate manpower training and labour market entry assistance, in order to come up with practical solutions and not just spend money on experiments or creating task forces.

"We do not want a lot of discussion". This was the message we got from people with disabilities, time and time again when my colleague from Fredericton and his colleagues travelled across Canada. They said: "We want no more reports, no more talk, we want action".

That is what they expect from this government, and I hope we will see further measures in the months to come.

[Joe McGuire, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Winnipeg South.

It is an honour for me to address the House today on the occasion of the debate on this historic document, the 1997 federal budget. There is a light at the end of the tunnel when one reads this budget and it is not the light of a freight train barrelling toward us. It is the light of hope which is shining for the future of our country which includes our young people.

It is interesting to note, especially for our critics on the other side-it is their job to criticize-that during this whole exercise of the past three years of deficit cutting, cutting of programs, of cutting back fairly deeply through the fat and into the bone in our expenditures on the federal side, the United Nations has consistently named Canada the number one country in the world. That is something we should all dwell upon for a few minutes before we start criticizing the work that our finance minister and our Prime Minister have done over the past three years.

I will quote from some of the press comments from my province of Prince Edward Island that the budget has received. The editorialist from the General Pioneer in Summerside said ``With our lower than expected deficit, Mr. Martin resisted the pressure to institute a widespread tax cut. For that he is to be commended. The cuts that are still working their way through the system have been hard on all Canadians. A tax cut, although it would be appreciated at tax time, would simply drive the deficit back up and wipe out what has been accomplished''.

The editorialist went on to say that there is little doubt this is a pre-election budget. However, a key qualifier to be added is a pre-election budget for the 1990s: "Prime Minister Chrétien and his finance minister have concluded, and rightly so we suggest, that Canadians are in no mood for big spending promises that can't realistically be kept".

When the editorialist mentioned the pre-election budget for the 1990s, I am sure he was comparing that with pre-election budgets of the past where governments were tempted to come in with big spending programs in an effort to buy people's votes with their own money. Our finance minister in this regard in this election year has resisted the temptation to buy votes with the people's own money.

This government has accomplished quite a record over the past number of years. It inherited a $42 billion annual deficit. It inherited a legacy of high interest rates. It inherited a reputation among the G7, the western developed countries, and indeed among other less fortunate countries as being Mexico north.

In a short, record setting period of time we have decreased the deficit 34 per cent in one year. That is probably the biggest deficit reduction in the shortest time in the history of the world. We are getting the deficit under control.

We are a stone's throw away from a balanced budget. In the next couple of years we will see for the first time in many decades a balanced budget.

The Ottawa Citizen led off its editorial after the budget by saying: ``The finance minister, Paul Martin, deserves real credit, if not necessarily for yesterday's budget, then for his four years of fiscal tutelage. His is a record of historic achievement''. I think we can all agree with what the finance minister has done over the past four years to earn those accolades.

Let us take a look at some of the budget measures which have generated a positive response. First I would like to address jobs.

In this budget $2 billion more are being dedicated for small business to begin, to grow and to create more jobs. In addition, if businesses use the new hiring program and expand their workforce, they will have a holiday from paying EI premiums. They will not have to pay any EI premiums for the first year and they will have a 25 per cent reduction in the second year.

As far as Prince Edward Island is concerned, this measure could not have come at a better time. There will be $95 million available for the tourism sector. The new Confederation bridge will be opening on June 1 and I am sure that every member of the House will be there.

Normally 700,000 to 800,000 tourist visitors coming to our province each year. This year we are expecting one million visitors. A lot of islanders are not yet prepared for the influx of people who will be visiting our province after the bridge opens. Therefore, these tourism dollars will come in very handy for a lot of our tourist operators. They will be able to expand and to begin new tourist operations to facilitate one million visitors this year.

The infrastructure program will help to create jobs. Some critics have been very hard on the infrastructure program. They wonder why we have extended it for another year and why we put another $425 million into it.

In my riding some of the small communities would not have been financially able to develop some of their projects if it was not for federal and provincial money. For example, in the town of Alberton, in the western end of my riding, $365,000 was generated to replace sewer lines, sidewalks, paving and ditching. Without the dollars of the federal initiative, the other two-thirds would not

have been spent. It is certainly a relief for the taxpayers of that town.

In the village of O'Leary, half a million dollars went into renovating an old hospital that had been closed. The village needed a new village office and a new fire station. They were able to access the infrastructure program and right now they have a beautiful building.

Also there were small projects in very small districts like St. Felix, St. Nicholas and St. Louis where anywhere from $8,000 to $15,000 was spent in much needed community improvement.

In the town of Summerside, which is the largest town in my riding, there is now a new city of Summerside because of the amalgamation that took place with Wilmot and St. Eleanors. All the new money has been added to their share of the infrastructure program. Well over $2.5 million has been spent there.

A total of 200 jobs have been created in my riding. If anyone thinks 200 jobs are not needed, then they are sadly mistaken in criticizing this program.

I want to commend the government on its initiative on the disabled. This initiative was caucus driven, led by the member from Fredericton who has been working very hard on it. There was full caucus support for his efforts.

Many of our disabled are helped by expanded tax deductions for medical expenses. These include increased deductions for part time attendants, increased deductions for vans used for wheelchair transportation as well as for medically required air conditioners and altered driveways. Individuals who come under the umbrella of the organizations for the disabled in Summerside-Tignish and area will benefit by the initiatives found in Tuesday's budget.

It is our record of staying the course, of remaining consistent and focused that has brought us to the point where we can initiate some selective spending programs. We have turned the corner. The time of announcing new cuts is over.

We are about to reap the rewards of the sacrifices of the past four years. The tax cuts that we all want are now possible without jeopardizing our recovery.

[Reg Alcock, Liberal, Winnipeg South, MB]

Mr. Speaker, before I begin my comments on the budget, I would like to take a moment to correct the record.

Last Thursday Reform had an opposition day on transportation. During the debate, the Reform critic for transportation made a comment that some information he was provided was covered with marginal notes written by one Moya Greene. He was making the comment that this was a tragic leak of information, implying complicity on the part of Ms. Greene. I want to state that, at no time, was Moya Green ever involved in the preparation of the draft report.

The marginal notes he got on the draft sent to him were those of the researcher. For him to slander Ms. Green, who is a very valuable member of the finance community and who made a very strong contribution to the work of the round table, is quite inexcusable. I do not know why the Reform Party has chosen to take this tack and I am rather saddened by it.

There is not enough time in the few minutes I have to do justice to the budget, so I want to focus on three or four points. The first is just a pick-up on the remarks of the previous speaker from the Bloc.

One of the things that has given me real delight in the work leading up to this budget has been the involvement of a great many members from all sides of the House. The Minister of Finance and cabinet have allowed members to get involved in a variety of committees that have spent a great deal of time working on specific problems that ended up as policies.

The clearest example of that is the work by the member from Fredericton. I served with that member on the first HIV committee, when we looked at the changes to the Canada assistance plan. At that time, a concern was raised about what would happen to people with disabilities. The result was the establishment of the committee he chaired. He undertook, as is his personal style, to consult and consult. He worked with people in his community and across Canada in order to formulate policy that truly represents the wishes of people. This is a stellar example of that.

He was in my riding. We had a little meeting in my office where we brought together people from the community. I know this community well as I have worked with it over the years. Canadians with disabilities were strongly supportive of the work done by that committee and are delighted with the announcement in the budget. They look forward to seeing what the member from Fredericton will do next on their behalf.

Another area that underlies this attitude on the part of the government of collaboration and involvement is the work done by the member for Peterborough, who co-chaired a committee that worked on support for post-secondary education.

We have a terrible problem with our universities which have been the recipients to all sorts of offloading by provincial governments and diversion of federal government support to the point where many of our great institutions are in serious trouble. Their infrastructure is crumbling. They have difficulty providing the kind of labs and support to students to give them a quality education. For organizations that are such major economic engines, as a country we have allowed them to fall into a rather sorry state.

During the last election the Liberals made the second largest financial commitment to provide over the course of four years $1

billion in new money for research and development. I am delighted to see with this announcement that the Minister of Industry, who has long advocated this, and the secretary of state for science and research have finally been able to deliver not just what was committed but well in excess of that. For the first time we will be able to offer to universities and labs across the country a strong infusion of new capital to help them do the work that in the end is will support all of us. It is going to provide jobs and the intellectual property that will fuel growth in the next few decades.

One of the problems that arose with universities was the tendency on the part of provincial governments to divert funds that the federal government was providing in support of post-secondary education to other uses. In fact the only province in the country that can argue that it provided 100 per cent flow through of those funds from the federal government to the universities is the province of Quebec. In all other cases those funds were diverted to other uses and the resultant shortfall offloaded on to students.

In fact one of the most shameful acts of the provincial government in my province is the way that it has disguised its withdrawal of support from universities and handed over responsibility to students.

We made some changes to the student loan program a few years ago designed to raise the limits and give students a bit more flexibility in the management of their debt, only to have the provincial government immediately cancel its grant program and transfer much of its responsibility for supporting students on to the federal government. The net result was to put students even further in debt and give them fewer options for managing that debt.

I am delighted the Minister of Human Resources Development has taken strong steps to provide direct support to students and some greater flexibility in the management of their debt load to right what has been a fairly serious problem that has been created by provincial governments across the country.

I am a little saddened that we have not yet been able to move to an income contingent form of repayment. I trust we will continue to look at that. I know the student associations, certainly in western Canada, strongly support that and see it as a way of helping students manage what are to be very large debts on leaving school.

The announcements on child poverty and health are very welcome. They are important additions and reflect an important shift in philosophy, from a social service network that many have challenged as being excessively paternalistic to one that is more empowering. By putting resources directly in the hands of families and expecting them to act in the best interests of their children, we are giving people who are working and trying to get ahead and build a future for their children some real tools with which to work.

Finally, I want to thank the Minister of Finance for his assistance with the work of the committee that I chair, the committee on transport, in dealing with another form of deficit. This is perhaps best described as the infrastructure deficit.

This country has a national highway system some 25,000 kilometres long comprised of the Trans-Canada Highway and a number of major routes that carry goods between the provinces and between Canada and the U.S. and to the major ports. It carries 45 per cent of our exports south to the U.S. It carries almost 80 per cent of tourism which is predicted to grow to be the third largest industry in Canada by the turn of the century, an industry that runs on rubber tires.

The highway system is in desperate shape. The entire network has been studied and studied and studied, to the point that the provincial auditor in Ontario got involved in looking at the desperate condition of our major trade routes. In the last year that we have been working on this topic, every single person who came to the table said that we needed to do something about that network of roads. But in a time of restraint the costs are enormous, some $18 billion to $20 billion to bring the entire system up to standard.

I have been very encouraged by the Minister of Finance and the President of the Treasury Board. They have worked with the committee to help us examine some alternative ways in which to fund infrastructure renewal.

Our infrastructure program has been an enormous success. This was brought home to me when I met with the Trans-Canada West Association, a group of mayors from small communities all along the Trans-Canada Highway in the prairies. They made the point that when mayors and reeves from across the country gather together, one thing they talk about is how they spend their little portion of the infrastructure program in their communities. It is an activity which has the benefit of putting people to work and also bringing us together.

That is the same kind of effect we will see when we get to the work of twinning the Trans-Canada Highway across the country, of renewing the 25,000 kilometres of roads that tie every community in the country together. It is work that needs to be done. I was pleased to see recognition of this by the Minister of Finance in the budget.

The committee has proposed some innovative ways in which we could use public and private partnerships to fund the renewal of the highway system and that we could do it within the existing levels of expenditure. However, it requires some important changes in the way in which government does business. That is one of the odd benefits which can come out of a deficit. Sometimes when there is

such enormous fiscal pressure, we are forced to look at innovative ways to get the work done.

We cannot allow this infrastructure deficit to continue. We have to begin to solve the problem. These highways are important. The highway in Newfoundland and through New Brunswick is important to the economy of Manitoba. The highway in Saskatchewan is important to the economy of Ontario. The entire network is important to the country.

It is estimated that in addition to the work that would be created by rebuilding this network of roads, there would be over 200,000 new permanent, long term jobs created in Canada by the existence of a more efficient system of delivery.

I know the Minister of Finance believes as I do that this is an important issue. I expect in a future budget we will see a creative solution to the problem.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, let us point out to the hon. member for Winnipeg South the incredible fuel taxes that the Canadian public and the commercial users of the highway pay. Of that fuel tax, less than 5 per cent actually gets spent on rebuilding the highway system in this country.

There has been a massive request for some dedicated money from fuel taxes to go to fix the highway system. The Liberals have refused to do that despite cries from the travelling public, commercial users of the highway and others who use the highway system. The Liberals have refused to listen to them. They are the ones who are paying the bills by their fuel taxes and the Liberals are not using the money to keep the roadways up.

I listened to the member for Winnipeg South talk about how the provinces are offloading their problems for funding education on to the backs of the students. Let me remind the member for Winnipeg South that since the Liberal government took office it has cut back transfer payments to education and health care by $7.5 billion. The Liberals have taken out of health care and education transfers and they have the nerve to stand up and blame the provinces for the problem. That audacity is beyond belief.

The member for Winnipeg South also talked about how they are going to extend the payment schedules for the students. I am sure the students are going to appreciate that a lot. But what they would appreciate more would be to be able to get a job when they finish their education, to go out to work and earn some money to pay back the loans within the time period allowed to them. The fact is there are 1.5 million Canadians without jobs which is comical considering that in 1993 this Liberal government ran on jobs, jobs, jobs and there is about a net zero change in the unemployment rate in this country.

Instead of offering the students extended terms for paying back their loans, would it not be wonderful and would the students not appreciate far more the opportunity to go to work after they finish their education and pay back the loans like they want to? The students do not want handouts when they finish their education. They want jobs. This government has failed miserably in its responsibility to ensure that an environment is created so that students can get jobs.

Let me also talk about child poverty. People living below the poverty line do not want more welfare. They want jobs so that they can get themselves out of that situation. This extra payment to combat child poverty is only a drop in the bucket per family, per child, for those who live in poverty.

It would be far better if the Liberal government did one of two things. One, it could create better paying jobs for those people so they could get themselves out of that situation. Two, like the Reform Party would do, it could take those low income people off the tax rolls completely. That would be a better solution than the handouts the Liberal government is talking about here.

The member for Winnipeg South continues with the sleight of hand deception that this budget represents. It has no credibility. The member should be standing and defending the Liberal record on employment and the tax increases that have been created by this government.