Debates of Feb. 20th, 1997

The Budget

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this is interesting. The last point is wrong, so I will just dispense with that.

Where we stand on aboriginal affairs in the country is for more accountability within the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. We certainly did not get that from this group here.

One more thing about alienation. These members, of course, do not understand what I was getting at. If they are doling out millions and millions of dollars in one year to a group, why does the money stay in the budget regardless of what group it is, year after year after year. Why are these expenditures not going down? Why are those expenditures staying in the same budget they always have? What this government does not have are people who have one clue about zero based budgeting.

They basically say if it was in the budget last year, leave it there. There is all kinds of room in this budget to make reductions. They only reason the Liberals are not reducing these budgets is to try to buy votes from Canadians.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I must say that in listening to that speech I find it amazing that the Reform members have managed to attack all the interest groups in the country. What they do not realize is that Canadians collectively are different interest groups.

[An hon. member]

Talk about your MP pension plan.

[Andrew Telegdi, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Let me say on the public record that I will trade my pension for the pension of the leader of the Reform Party that gets subsidized by all sorts of goodies.

The taxpayers budget, which they cannot run from and they will be held accountable for and which will be put to Canadians time and time again, states that they would slash equalization payments by 35 per cent.

They would slash the Canada assistance plan by 34 per cent. They would slash the aboriginal program by 24 per cent.

When we you go through what they were going to do there would have been no budget left and there would not be a Canada left.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, meanwhile they slash $7 billion from health but say nothing about it.

It is interesting that the member opposite says we should be funding. They want to fund all special interest groups.

I have negotiated against the Canadian conference of teamsters for many years. I fail to see why that interest group gets it year after year, I believe it is $137,912.

The trouble is all this money they have taken from the Canadian taxpayer is used in many cases to buy votes. It is not used as a zero based budgeting concept to see how important it is to the productivity of this nation. It is to buy votes. That is what they do not understand about budgets.

[Guy Arseneault, Liberal, Restigouche—Chaleur, NB]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, the hon. member said we are using money to buy votes. First of all, that is illegal. Second, that is not allowed in the Chamber. Mr. Speaker, I would ask you to ask him to withdraw immediately.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member for Oxford on debate.

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am sharing my time with my colleague for Hillsborough, the Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Labour.

I had a prepared speech but things have been so interesting with the last three or four speakers that I am going to leave it for a minute. I am going back to the member for Kootenay East. My colleague talked about Liberal-Tory, same old story.

I am going back, and it may be too far for the hon. gentleman, to nine years of Conservative majority governments in this place. When the Tories started in 1984 the debt was something around $200 billion. After nine years of Michael Wilson, bless his heart, struggling with the deficit, they never met their targets, never got the deficit under $38 billion in a year and they more than doubled to $500 plus billion.

That is not the story of this budget or of this government. The deficit is now less than $19 billion. That is not the same story. The deficit to GDP ratio has been cut in half. That is not the same story. There is more than one way of achieving anything. We have chosen a fairly direct way. I would suggest to the hon. member for Fraser Valley West that this budget may well buy a few votes.

When I was on the hustings in 1993 people wanted deficit control. The Canadian people are not stupid and they knew that if we continued to spend more than we earned we were going to be in a position of no return. We are going to hit the wall is the expression. A lot of people across the way do not seem to understand that. We do not hit the wall.

I want to compliment the Minister of Finance. I want to compliment the cabinet. I want to compliment all the cabinet ministers. I want to compliment all the departments because if the ministers and their departments had not taken seriously the program review and had not cut their budgets we would not be in the enviable position we find ourselves in today.

I want to compliment the members of caucus because they have contributed to the budget and to previous budgets. They have helped keep the Minister of Finance on course to reduce the deficit.

I also want to thank a few other people we never do thank and one is the public servants who have not had an increase in six years.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

But you have on your pension. It's indexed every darn year.

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Fraser Valley West talks about my pension. I have not earned an MP's pension yet.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Yet.

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

I pay so much income tax on what I earn that I cannot survive without my teacher's pension. Let us not worry about that.

[An hon. member]

Another double dipper.

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

I earned it.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Beaver River, AB]

Take it out.

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

I earned it.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Let's talk more about those pensions.

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we need to congratulate another large group and that is the citizens of this country who have gone along consistently with the government and the successive budgets that the Minister of Finance has brought forward. They are now reaping the benefits of that support. We are now able to say: "Here is some money for this and here is some money for that". We are going to meet our goals.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Let's talk about the $10 billion payroll tax grab.

[Darrel Stinson, Reform, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Let's talk about you shutting down the hospitals. Let's talk about that.

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

What government, with scarce resources, shows what its values are.

[Julian Reed, Liberal, Halton—Peel, ON]

The social conscience of the Reform Party.

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

Our values are jobs, health care, education and our children.

I listened much more quietly to the hon. members opposite than they care to listen to me. However, you really have to repeat things over and over again, don't you?

In 1998-99, for the first time in 28 years, the government will not have to borrow any new money. We will be in the best position among the G7 nations. The rapid turnaround of our finances has boosted confidence in the economy. This confidence encourages investment. It keeps interest rates low and helps to create jobs. Employment has grown by 91,000 jobs in the last four months alone. Private sector forecasters expect 300,000 to 350,000 new jobs this year.

There is an old saw that says "figures don't lie, but liars can figure". I am not calling anyone a liar, in case somebody rises. I will change the saw "figures don't lie, but politicians often fool around with figures".

[An hon. member]

Especially Reform because they cannot get it straight.

[John Finlay, Liberal, Oxford, ON]

That is right, especially the Reform Party. My friend from Kootenay East used figures very constructively a little earlier. He talked about the GDP increasing 9.5 per cent and the revenue increasing 12.5 per cent. This was some sort of sleight of hand, some sort of disaster-