House of Commons Hansard #135 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was events.

Topics

Somalia InquiryOral Question Period

11:50 a.m.

Reform

Jack Frazer Reform Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, a recent military study identifies serious leadership problems. Leadership is probably the most important factor in an efficient, effective, disciplined and happy military.

The rank and file want to know that their interests come first in the minds of their leaders. Whether the minister likes it or not, the perception is that there is a problem in national defence headquarters.

Why is he shutting down the Somalia inquiry when it offers him a chance to clear the decks and re-establish confidence in national defence leadership?

Somalia InquiryOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Perth—Wellington—Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

John Richardson LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, the inquiry was shut down for the reasons explained by the minister in previous sittings of the House and I stand by that.

Somalia InquiryOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Reform

Jack Frazer Reform Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, the minister has no hesitation in prejudging the inquiry. His comments last Friday are a blatant example of his jumping to the wrong conclusion.

Clearly, the minister does not know what really happened in Somalia. Furthermore, he certainly does not know what really happened at national defence headquarters and seems determined not to find out.

Why is the minister more interested in stopping any investigation into the murder and cover-up than in establishing what really happened? Is this responsible leadership?

Somalia InquiryOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Perth—Wellington—Waterloo Ontario

Liberal

John Richardson LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Speaker, I would like to draw to the attention of the House again that this inquiry has been extended three times. Each time it was given a notice that it was hoped it would wind up. We have given the inquiry another three month extension to the end of June at which time it will report.

Science And TechnologyOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Walt Lastewka Liberal St. Catharines, ON

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Secretary of State for Science, Research and Development.

We all applaud the announcement in the budget of $800 million for the new Canada foundation for innovation. Could he inform the House on the renewal of the networks of centres of excellence and IRAP and how this will benefit Canadians?

Science And TechnologyOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Portage—Interlake Manitoba

Liberal

Jon Gerrard LiberalSecretary of State (Science

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for his question and to also thank him for his very hard work in supporting science and technology in Canada.

We have committed to making the networks of centres of excellence a permanent program funded at an annual rate of $47.4 million. We have committed to making the industrial research assistance program a stable program at $96.5 million.

As Robert Prichard at the University of Toronto indicated, this budget will be understood historically as a critical turning point for Canada, when Canada reaffirmed that it is going to compete with the strongest nations in the world for innovation, research and development.

Child PovertyOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

NDP

Simon de Jong NDP Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

The budget speech delivered earlier this week could have come straight from George Orwell's 1984 . Small extra expenditures are touted as new money while massive cuts to social and cultural programs continue. For example, the government claims $600 million is new money for poor families with children.

The government knows however that the new rules for the taxation of child support that resulted from the Thibaudeau court case will give a windfall of $120 million in the third year and more in subsequent years.

How much is there actually in new money to help those hundreds of thousands of children who live in poverty?

Child PovertyOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Papineau—Saint-Michel Québec

Liberal

Pierre Pettigrew LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the member for his question. It is such an important downpayment that our government has been doing that I am delighted to tell the member that this year we will be adding $70 million to that already

committed in the previous budget of 1996 to total $195 million. It is quite important.

We are going to do even more. For 1998 a partnership is being developed with the provinces, and it will take a year to develop a reallocation framework and design a good program in which both incomes and programs will work hand in hand. We will be adding $600 million in new money, plus the $250 million.

YouthOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Bob Speller Liberal Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Human Resources Development who is aware of the problems of youth today: high unemployment, high tuition fees and high debt loads when they come out of university.

I wonder what specifically he has planned in terms of helping rural youth who also experience many of these problems?

YouthOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Papineau—Saint-Michel Québec

Liberal

Pierre Pettigrew LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for a very important question.

Indeed much of our strategy is going to help them a lot. Student loans, for instance, will be improved. We are making a significant investment in this budget in higher education and skills, a total of $275 million over three years.

We are extending the interest relief for students from 18 to 30 months in terms of debt load and we are pursuing the possibility of linking loan payments to income. We are improving the tax system as well in order to help education. The education tax credit has been enriched to help students a great deal and the registered education savings plan can be rolled into savings.

Rural youth will also be able to have a 1-800 line. Rural youth sometimes have a hard time finding the information and they will get it through the 1-800 line.

Committees Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

Noon

Liberal

John Maloney Liberal Erie, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the eighth report of the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, the report of the subcommittee on the regulations on firearms.

Pursuant to Standing Order 32(5), and section 118 of the Firearms Act, 1995, chapter 39, your committee has unanimously agreed to adopt the report of the subcommittee on the draft regulations on firearms and has agreed to report it with 39 recommendations.

Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee has requested a comprehensive response to this report within 150 days.

I want to thank all subcommittee members and support staff for the long hours and hard work from which this unanimous report has evolved.

Federal Public Service Pension ActRoutine Proceedings

Noon

Reform

Jack Frazer Reform Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-376, an act to provide defined contribution pensions for the public service, the Canadian forces and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, to be managed and invested by a private sector manager, and to amend the Income Tax Act and certain other acts in consequence thereof.

Mr. Speaker, briefly the bill I have introduced will replace the public service, the RCMP and the Canadian forces pension plan by allowing it to put real money into a real pension account, managed by a professional manager at arm's length from the government.

This would mean that rather than deductions being taken from your pay and put into the general revenue account matched by a fictitious paper transaction, there would be real money in a real account. The best equivalent I can think of is the Ontario teachers pension plan which as we know is very healthy and well managed.

The people involved would have the choice of who manages the plan. They would have the option, if necessary, of contributing a little more, although the government is not obligated for more. I think this would put our pension plan on firm footing and take the taxpayer out of the game of supporting it.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

Noon

Winnipeg—St. James Manitoba

Liberal

John Harvard LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Public Works and Government Services

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege for me to present a petition on behalf of dozens of my fellow Manitobans.

The petitioners bring to the attention of the House that legislation was passed in Canada which provided for equal pay for work of equal value and that the Canadian Human Rights Commission has concurred that the findings of an independent inquiry were reasonable and correct.

The petitioners urge the Government of Canada to act to have this legislation take effect immediately and that workers be reimbursed at the rate recommended.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Reform

Margaret Bridgman Reform Surrey North, BC

Mr. Speaker, I wish to present a petition signed by a number of my constituents.

The petitioners would like to remind the House of the national highway policy study which identified job creation, economic development, national unity, saving lives, avoiding injuries, lower congestion, lower vehicle operation and better international competitiveness as benefits resulting from the proposed national highway program.

The petitioners urge the federal government to join with the provincial governments to make the national highway system upgrading possible.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Speller Liberal Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I wish to present two petitions.

The first petition calls on the Government of Canada to join with the provincial governments to make a national highway system upgrading possible. It is very important, especially in the rural areas of Canada.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Speller Liberal Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Mr. Speaker, the second petition is signed by residents of Haldimand-Norfolk.

The petitioners call on the Government of Canada to enact Bill C-205, introduced by the hon. member for Scarborough West.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Roger Simmons Liberal Burin—St. George's, NL

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36 and on behalf of my colleague, the hon. member for Labrador, who would normally present this petition were he here today, I am pleased to present a petition from approximately 5,200 residents of the riding of Labrador.

The petitioners point out that current law does not require the screening of passengers prior to boarding an aircraft at class four airports and that airlines have given notice that effective February 28, 1997 the screening of passengers will not take place at Goose Bay or Wabush airports in Labrador. They point out that due to this action the safety of the travelling public will be jeopardized.

They call on Parliament to enact legislation which will make the screening of passengers mandatory at all airports, ensuring that the safety of people when flying in Canada is maintained as priority number one.

I support the petition and I am pleased to present it on behalf of my colleague, the hon. member for Labrador.

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

London West Ontario

Liberal

Sue Barnes LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of National Revenue

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand.

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Is that agreed?

Questions On The Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The House resumed consideration of Bill C-71, an act to regulate the manufacture, sale, labelling and promotion of tobacco products, to make consequential amendments to another Act and to repeal certain Acts, as reported (with amendments) from a committee.

Tobacco ActGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I believe the hon. member for Trois-Rivières still has five minutes.

Tobacco ActGovernment Orders

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Rocheleau Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will continue in the few minutes I have left to tell you how important the Grand Prix de Trois-Rivières mentioned earlier is for jobs. It generates 150 jobs, including 80 directly. It is an event of considerable economic importance for the Trois-Rivières region. It is an international event, because it is broadcast throughout North America. It is televised because it is permitted.

Clause 31 clearly provides, and I quote:

31.(1) No person shall, on behalf of another person, with or without consideration, publish, broadcast or otherwise disseminate any promotion that is prohibited by this Part.

It will no longer be permitted to televise a sporting event of the size of the Players Trois-Rivières Grand Prix, because the law will prohibit it.

Oddly enough, clause 31(2) permits the same sort of events when they come from outside the country, and I quote:

31.(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to the distribution for sale of an imported publication or the retransmission of radio or television broadcasts that originate outside Canada.

This means that, when it comes from Quebec or Trois-Rivières, it is serious and promotes smoking and when it originates elsewhere, it does not. Or does it mean that, when a European Grand Prix is being broadcast and the word Valvoline appears behind a car it is OK to televise, but if the world Marlboro appears, the transmission will be jammed? Where are we going with this?

This does not make any sense. It goes to show how out of touch this government is, with its gurus and the kind of ayatollahs who

advise the Minister of Health of Canada, who has completely lost touch with common sense and growing public pressure across Canada for preserving cultural and sports events by maintaining sponsorships from the private sector.

We must realize that this ban on television advertising would take effect immediately and not later, as suggested by the chair of the Liberal caucus in an interview to the CBC, when he said that the amendments will delay implementation. In fact, the amendments that apply concern clause 24, and are set out in clause 60, which states that clauses 24(2) and 24(3) will come into force on October 1, 1998, or at an earlier date set in an order.

This affects the 10 per cent rule, whereby cigarette advertising shall not take up more than 10 per cent of the billboards or ads. That provision will take effect on October 1, 1998. But the ban on the broadcasting of events, where sponsors or philanthropists are paid back for investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in such or such an event, will be effective immediately, which means the Grand Prix de Trois-Rivières will be affected as early as next summer. That is totally unacceptable, because no real consultation has taken place.

It is especially annoying since it has not been demonstrated in any way that looking at billboard advertising or watching television ads is an inducement to use tobacco products. There are no studies showing that. The only evidence available is that a smoker, which means someone who already uses tobacco products, may switch brands after attending the Du Maurier tennis tournament, seeing the Bendon and Hedges Symphony of Fire or travelling to Trois-Rivières for the Grand Prix sponsored by Players. He may prefer a Players cigarette over a Du Maurier.

But that is his own choice, it is not a matter of public policy. What could be interesting and fundamental to prove is that someone who sees these billboards could decide to start smoking. But that is laughable.

I will conclude by quoting this morning's editorial in the daily Le Nouvelliste , which addresses the issue of sponsorship and billboards. It says: ``We have a hard time believing that a teenager from Trois-Rivières would take up smoking just because he was exposed to a Players billboard ten days a year''.

It is that simple, there is nothing complicated about this issue, that is common sense. It just goes to show that the government is out of touch and so hypocritical that it wants it both ways. We know how much tax revenue smoking brings in. If the government was consistent, would it not completely prohibit tobacco and cigarettes production? If smoking is so bad for our health that no ads can be broadcast, should we not stand up and have a real debate on the issue and think about prohibiting the production and importation of tobacco products? Then, we would be addressing the real issues instead of dealing once again with the government's hypocritical and stealthy behaviour.

Tobacco ActGovernment Orders

12:15 p.m.

Reform

Paul Forseth Reform New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Mr. Speaker, I have been moved to make some brief comments in view of what I have heard about Bill C-71 in the House today.

One of the things I have heard is that the bill goes too far. No, the bill contains only a partial ban on tobacco advertising even though total bans have been adopted by some countries including Australia, New Zealand, France, Portugal, Sweden, Norway, Finland and Italy.

The bill does not ban tobacco sponsorships even though the United States has adopted a law that will ban all tobacco sponsorship advertising effective August 28, 1998.

Then we hear the regulatory authority in the bill is too broad. The regulatory authority created by the bill is less than for products covered by the Hazardous Products Act, yet tobacco is much more dangerous. The nicotine patch is more strictly regulated under the Food and Drug Act than cigarettes will be under Bill C-71.

Then we hear events now sponsored by tobacco companies will have to be cancelled. The bill does not ban sponsorships, it only regulates the use of tobacco brand elements in sponsoring advertising.

Prominent former tobacco sponsorship recipients now have non-tobacco sponsors. In 1988, for example, the Royal Canadian Golf Association testified before a parliamentary committee that du Maurier could not be replaced as a sponsor of the men's Canadian open. The event is now sponsored by Bell Canada.

It is often said the bill will cost jobs in the tobacco industry. In some ways Bill C-71 protects jobs in the Canadian tobacco industry because advertising restrictions make it difficult for foreign companies to penetrate the Canadian market.

Even if there would even be some job impact, public health must take precedence and priority. To argue otherwise is something like arguing that World War II should have continued to prevent job losses in the munitions factory. That is the same kind of logic.

Then we hear there will be a significant adverse impact on retailers. In 1987-88 the tobacco industry claimed that Bill C-51, the Tobacco Products Control Act, which was eventually passed by Parliament banning tobacco advertising, would cost thousands of jobs. It just did not happen.

Then we hear the bill amounts to a de facto total ban on advertising. No, the bill permits tobacco advertising in publications read primarily by adults, in direct mail to adults and in places

where minors are prohibited by law. The scope remains ample for advertising, much to the chagrin of the health committee.

It is also said that the bill infringes on provincial jurisdiction. Restricting tobacco marketing was strongly upheld by the Supreme Court of Canada in 1996 as being within the federal jurisdiction.

Then we hear tobacco is a legal product. There are other legal products or activities the advertising of which is restricted. Prescription drugs are legal but consumer advertising of prescription drugs, including the nicotine patch, is illegal. There is no such thing as the prozac tennis championship or the valium arts festival. Prostitution is legal but soliciting for prostitution is illegal. My example is clear.

The bill, it is said, infringes on the charter of rights and freedoms. The government has gone to great lengths to respond to the Supreme Court's majority judgment. Bill C-71 contains a partial ban on advertising, not a total ban. Lifestyle advertising is banned but product information can still be communicated to consumers in a manner directed primarily to adults.

Then we hear education is the complete answer. Education alone is not enough to reduce smoking. We need effective education and money spent on it, but educational interventions cannot compete with the multi-million dollar advertising campaigns of the tobacco industry.

Then we hear there is no evidence that advertising increases smoking. I would like to say that a House of Commons committee in the United Kingdom held hearings on tobacco advertising and concluded in 1992 that there was indeed a relationship between advertising and consumption.

In RJR-MacDonald Inc. v. Canada, the attorney general case, all nine judges of the Supreme Court of Canada agreed that there was a rational connection between tobacco advertising and increased consumption.

Recent studies have documented a high awareness of recall of tobacco advertising among children and adolescents with, for example, Joe Camel, the cartoon character which promotes Camel cigarettes being just as recognizable among 6-year olds as Mickey Mouse. Just think of it.

Tobacco use is the cause of 30 per cent of cancer and more than 80 per cent of lung cancer. The overwhelming number of new smokers are children. To protect our children it is essential that Bill C-71 be passed without being weakened by the tobacco lobby.

How can we in Canada neglect this blight on society? Canadians want to protect the environment in the national sense. Therefore we must also help the victims of tobacco to protect them from this form of societal pollution.

Tobacco ActGovernment Orders

12:20 p.m.

Bloc

Pierre Brien Bloc Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am glad you recognized me right away. I am pleased to take the floor, because we know that there was not very much debate at second reading. This bill has repercussions in many parts of Quebec, and also in my riding, more about which later.

I would like to speak briefly to the first group of amendments-