House of Commons Hansard #161 of the 35th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was billion.

Topics

Broadcast ActPrivate Members' Business

7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Roger Pomerleau Bloc Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC

No, Mr. Speaker, I have not concluded my remarks.

Broadcast ActPrivate Members' Business

7:20 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The hon. member for Anjou-Rivière-des-Prairies has the floor.

Broadcast ActPrivate Members' Business

7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Roger Pomerleau Bloc Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC

Mr. Speaker, many Canadians have been affected by negative option billing, but not in Quebec.

Do I have two minutes left, Mr. Speaker?

Broadcast ActPrivate Members' Business

7:20 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The period allowed for this debate expires at 7.27 pm. The hon. member has five minutes left.

Broadcast ActPrivate Members' Business

7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Roger Pomerleau Bloc Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC

The Bloc has excellent reasons to move this motion today. Our motion rejects the Senate amendment because:

-in the opinion of this House, it does not bring the bill into conformity with the objectives of the Broadcasting Act with regard to French-language services.

We know that services must be provided in French exactly as they are provided in English; there are two official languages in Canada and they are equal everywhere.

To settle the problem of negative option billing in Canada, which should be settled through provincial legislation, my hon. colleague is proposing a federal bill that would reduce French language television programming.

My colleague should have asked the provincial legislatures to pass the regulations now before this House. This is an area under provincial jurisdiction. Thus, first, this is not the place to solve this problem and the bill has the disadvantage, when the provinces do not do their job, of allowing the federal government to encroach on provincial jurisdictions, which Quebec has always been opposed to.

So, not only do we not solve a problem correctly by raising it in a legislative assembly that does not have proper jurisdiction, but once again Quebec is being had, and forced to fight these motions when the Constitution provides quite clearly that this comes under provincial jurisdiction.

Broadcast ActPrivate Members' Business

7:20 p.m.

Liberal

Roger Gallaway Liberal Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, again I must remind members opposite of Standing Order 11(2) and that we are debating the amendment as proposed by the opposition and the amendment as put forward by the Senate, neither of which has anything to do with jurisdiction.

Broadcast ActPrivate Members' Business

7:20 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I thank the hon. member and I ask if my colleague can speak to the amendment before us with some relevance.

Broadcast ActPrivate Members' Business

7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Roger Pomerleau Bloc Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC

My remarks are very relevant, Mr. Speaker. We reject the amendment proposed by the Senate because it does not bring the bill into conformity with the objectives of the Broadcasting Act with regard to French language services.

If motions have to be moved at every turn, we will see to it.

What we have shown here is that the bill is strictly a measure against francophones in Canada and Quebec. If our colleague wants to introduce a bill to solve the problem, he should do so in the provincial legislatures and not here.

Broadcast ActPrivate Members' Business

7:25 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Wrong.

Broadcast ActPrivate Members' Business

7:25 p.m.

Bloc

Roger Pomerleau Bloc Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC

That is not wrong. What you are saying is totally unreasonable. Why then would we be rejecting an amendment moved by the Senate? It is because the Association des consommateurs du Québec went to the Senate and said in its brief that the bill did not meet the objectives it was supposed to meet and, furthermore, that it would create a lot more problems than it would solve. In the bill, there was no mention of jurisdictional encroachment, and that is a second factor.

I will read a few quotes from the Association des consommateurs' brief: "We recognize that the objectives which led to the introduction of this bill may have been worthy and beneficial to English Canada, but we are convinced that the authors of the bill never examined or understood the disastrous consequences of this bill for francophones in our country".

I will conclude with this remark. I think our colleagues should reread this report which describes exactly why francophones-

Broadcast ActPrivate Members' Business

7:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

My colleagues, the hour provided for the consideration of Private Members' Business has now expired and the order is dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the Order Paper.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Broadcast ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:25 p.m.

Bloc

Gilbert Fillion Bloc Chicoutimi, QC

Mr. Speaker, I do not know what has gotten into our colleagues opposite, whether it is the

upcoming election making them nervous, both in the House and in committee, but I would like to come back to the issue of federal government procurement, which has naturally interested the official opposition for a long time now.

Like most members of the Standing Committee on Government Operations, we have heard many criticisms of government contracts, which have been described as unfair and ineffective. Despite the fine talk of this government since it came to office, things are pretty much the same as they were in the dark Conservative past. Of the $8.6 billion spent by this government in 1994-95, 37 per cent was on sole source or non-competitive contracts. This is very troubling. The Liberal majority, like us, was left staring at the same sad figures.

Therefore, in the present tendering system, it is important to make some very minor changes. It would not even take very much time. These changes were proposed by SMBs that appeared before the committee. To name but a few, first of all small and medium size businesses are complaining about lack of information on tenders. They have no way of knowing what the government wants to buy.

They also feel that the tendering process has its shortcomings. They experience great difficulty in contacting the user of the product or service, or the true purchaser of goods and services. Reaching these people, or not reaching them, can make the difference between having the winning bid, or not.

The tendering process is an extremely complex one, which discourages the small and medium size businesses from bidding. They have trouble filling out the necessary forms. There is too much unnecessary red tape. As well, the small and medium size businesses fear, and rightly so, that contracts are awarded on the basis of nepotism and political favouritism, and favour Ottawa-based companies.

I have made a list of the comments made by certain small and medium size businesses in my riding. This is what I heard: "We are registered suppliers but we are never asked to tender our services", "we have to know the buyer to be able to sell a product or a service". That is par for the course in my riding, at CFB Bagotville. I also heard this: "We are not informed of requirements or products", "we are not asked to bid, although our names are on the lists, although we are qualified". Others told me: "I tried my luck recently, but I have serious doubts about the integrity of the system".

There is another aspect I would like to discuss, since you are signalling that my time is up: Quebec's share of the procurement of goods and services. In 1994-95, there was a shortfall of 22,000 jobs in Quebec because the federal government did not give Quebec its fair share of the procurement of federal goods and services.

Broadcast ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:30 p.m.

Winnipeg—St. James Manitoba

Liberal

John Harvard LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Public Works and Government Services

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Public Works and Government Services followed closely the work of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and welcomes its final report and recommendations on government contracting.

The minister was pleased to note that the report recognizes much progress has been made by the government to improve the contracting process. At the same time, this government is committed to taking further steps to enhance the openness and accessibility of the federal procurement process for all Canadian businesses.

We rely heavily on views expressed at the committee and on the committee's interim report while developing the request for proposals for the new electronic tendering system. This new system will be launched June 1, 1997. It is a joint federal-provincial initiative that will give Canadian firms cheaper, more user friendly, single window access to information on government business opportunities.

With regard to the matter of sole source contracting, the Department of Public Works and Government Services is sensitive to the concerns of the committee. However, there are cases when the government can turn to only one supplier. Reasons for this include: extreme urgency; exclusive rights, such as copyright and patent; the need for systems to be compatible; or the need to obtain replacement parts from the original manufacturer. The competitive approach is always preferred.

The Department of Public Works and Government Services has dramatically reduced its reliance on sole source contracting from 47 per cent of the value of contracts in 1992-93 to 26 per cent today. One of the ways we have achieved this is through the use of advanced contract award notices or ACANs. When the department publishes an ACAN on the open bidding service and in the "Government Business Opportunities" publication, any supplier that feels qualified to meet the requirement can challenge the sole source award. When the supplier is successful in demonstrating its capability, the requirement is completed.

To be clear, when the non-competitive approach is used, it must be for valid and compelling reasons. Otherwise the requirement is tendered competitively.

I hope that helps the hon. member.

Broadcast ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:35 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Guy Chrétien Bloc Frontenac, QC

Mr. Speaker, I rise again this evening in adjournment proceedings to find out from the Secretary of State for Agriculture how quickly the government will come to the defence of farm producers and especially Ontario and

Quebec producers of quotaed products. That is what we call rightly or wrongly supply management in the case of eggs, poultry and milk.

I will take a moment to remind the House of the issue. In response to market globalization, Canada signed an agreement with the United States known as the FTA. A few years later, we expanded the agreement, which became NAFTA. Mexico joined the two original partners.

In the fall of 1993-it was signed in the fall of 1993-GATT became the WTO. Within the context of the WTO and NAFTA, we set tariffs on imports of these various products to protect our agriculture, administered by supply management.

The tariff percentages are huge. But they protect our domestic markets very well. In general terms, they vary from 180 to 360 per cent. We must reduce these tariffs by 30 per cent over the next six years. It must, on average, be not less than 15 per cent.

However, the United States, in their usual heavy handed fashion, are making our life very hard. We had to argue before a NAFTA tribunal and we won five out of five. The head of the tribunal and the four judges supported without exception our tariffs on eggs, poultry and milk.

However, the trade representative, Charlene Barshefsky, swore up and down to the American farming community that she would fight to the end and win. Having lost under NAFTA, the U.S. is now turning to the WTO, and the reports I have are quite alarming, because there is serious question about this government's efforts to defend producers since we have seen how pliant it has been in the past before American demands.

I offer as an example the situation with durum wheat and lumber. We give them too much, when we should not. The point of my remarks is to make the government aware and remind it that the Bloc Quebecois will be there in the next elections to be on the lookout and ensure that the Liberal government defends the rules for our farmers who depend on supply management.

Broadcast ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:35 p.m.

Essex—Kent Ontario

Liberal

Jerry Pickard LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

We understand that some groups in the United States are disappointed with the NAFTA panel ruling and are continuing to press the United States government for further action. The U.S. has indicated that it remains committed to improving U.S. access to Canadian markets by doing everything possible consistent with the U.S. trade laws and obligations to pursue the tariff-free access.

However, the panel's final report released on December 3 fully upheld Canada's position that the application of Canadian WTO tariff equivalents to the U.S. origin goods is fully consistent with our international trade obligations both under the NAFTA and the WTO. Consistent with the panel's findings, we see no basis for negotiations. Both sides should now focus on respecting their negotiated agreements.

A key factor to our success before the NAFTA panel was the wholehearted support and participation of all stakeholders in all provinces in a truly team Canada effort. We remain committed to continue to work closely with Canadian stakeholders to defend our interests against any future challenges that we may face.

It is important to understand that oftentimes political statements are made by those who would represent individual groups in the United States. We here in Canada have stood very solidly behind our negotiations, behind what we have done and we have been upheld by the panel. I do not believe at this point in time we have anything to worry about in this regard.

Broadcast ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:40 p.m.

Liberal

Charles Caccia Liberal Davenport, ON

Mr. Speaker, last week I asked the Minister for International Trade to confirm that he would not sign the multilateral agreement on investment being negotiated at the OECD unless the Canadian government got exemptions for job creation and other key sectors of great significance to Canada, such as sovereignty over cultural institutions and our natural resources.

My question arose from the fact that the multilateral agreement on investment builds on NAFTA and, like NAFTA, has as its goal the creation of a level playing field for investors from outside Canada.

I am pleased to hear that the government plans to set conditions on foreign investment because, as I understand the agreement, only those sectors that are explicitly excluded by a country are exempt from the national treatment which would be accorded foreign investors under the proposed agreement. Consequently, Canada must negotiate exemptions for certain sectors, among them job creation, control over our natural resources, water, which is of particular interest to western Canada, energy, and possibly investments that would affect our food security.

NAFTA already restricts Canada's ability to require U.S. firms to meet employment targets as a precondition of investing in the country. If this restriction were extended to all OECD nations, the government would have great difficulty directing the investment process so as to promote job creation according to national goals.

Furthermore, there is the risk of signing a trade and investment agreement that will not pay adequate attention to environment

related concerns. I urge an approach which ensures that sustainable development be at the centre of the decision making process both of national governments and international trade institutions.

To conclude, I hope the minister can give assurance that Canada will not sign the agreement unless it retains control over job creation and unless Canada retains sovereignty over water, energy, forests and fisheries.

Broadcast ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:40 p.m.

Hamilton West Ontario

Liberal

Stan Keyes LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Davenport commands respect and it is a privilege for me to respond to his concerns on behalf of the Minister for International Trade.

Negotiation of a multilateral agreement on investment at the OECD is still at an early stage. Although the original goal was to complete these negotiations by May, an extension to 1998 appears necessary. Canada has committed to nothing at this stage.

The principal objective underlying the MAI is to improve investment protection for foreign investors. A core principle is equal treatment for foreign and domestic investors with exemptions for sensitive sectors such as cultural industries. As exists under the NAFTA and WTO agreements, countries will be allowed to file exemptions for certain measures they wish to maintain.

Canada will not sign an MAI that inhibits Canada's ability to link the granting of investment incentives to job creation or to impose or maintain foreign ownership limits for privatized crown corporations.

Canada will retain the ability to review large scale mergers and acquisitions involving Canadian companies, protect its cultural industries, protect the integrity of Canada's health care system, require job creation as a condition for receipt of investment incentives, require companies to carry out R and D activities in Canada as a condition of receipt of federal funds, and regulate crown corporations and monopolies.

Through the MAI, Canadian investors will have greater access and protection in Europe, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Korea, as well as other countries willing to adhere to MAI rules.

Signatories to the treaty will adopt investment rules similar to those accepted by the NAFTA partners. Equally important in a world where countries fiercely compete to attract foreign investment, Canada's adherence to an MAI that protects Canadian interests will raise our attractiveness as an investment location.

Foreign direct investment contributes significantly to Canada's growth, prosperity and employment creation. In the MAI negotiations Canada will be seeking disciplines on U.S. extraterritorial measures such as Helms-Burton, again for the benefit of Canadian investors.

Broadcast ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:45 p.m.

NDP

Vic Althouse NDP Mackenzie, SK

Mr. Speaker, on March 17, I rose to ask the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food if he would be changing the Canada Transportation Act to provide some rebalancing in the relationship between shippers and railways by including a shipper's right to performance guarantees with appropriate penalties for poor rail performance.

The question arose because of the abysmal performance that the railways have shown over the past winter, leaving almost 50 ships waiting in the harbour in Vancouver for which farmers, through the Canadian Wheat Board, were paying demurrage costs.

The problem with the Canada Transportation Act is that there is no way for the shipper, in this case the farmer or the Canadian Wheat Board, to extract penalties from the railways.

The act was fairly silent on this. The justice system has ruled that farmers are not shippers. It has also ruled on other occasions that the wheat board is not a shipper. Therefore it is virtually impossible for the people who are damaged by non-performance to arrange contracts with the offending party to make certain that performance does take place.

I did not ask the question in a vacuum. I had done considerable research and found that the elevators in western Canada were full of the grades of grain required for the ships. The terminals which load the grain after it is received at the port from the railways, from the prairies, were empty and unable to fill the ships. It does not take a genius to decide that something had gone wrong with the rail system.

I found that the rail system had performed very badly. It had made some attempts to correct the bad performance. It had brought in locomotives from the United States but for some reason it did not bring them up to performance standards for northern conditions. Apparently they were filled with summer fuel and they froze. They would not work. They were usually left out in the middle of somewhere which clogged up the system at the same time. While 50 to 100 cars were sitting full, there was no transportation to pull them. When the railway did start pulling them the transportation conked out. Taxis would have to go to rescue the crew. Other crews would come in to try to get the engines drained and working.

The management on the railway's part was absolutely abysmal. It is not that it was not being well paid with the new CTA changes. It no longer is bound by the 20 per cent limit on the amount of money it can claim back for investment costs. Those are now estimated to be somewhere between 30 per cent and 40 per cent.

Under the old act the railway was required to provide certain performance guarantees which the government was able to manage

by the payout of something in the order of $700 million annually. With that club over its head there was a lot better performance.

Now that the club is gone, now that there is no possibility of signing performance guarantee contracts with the wheat board or the farmer, there has been no compliance and there has been no performance.

While the railway can complain that the weather was bad, it is bad every January and February. The farmers manage to get their grain through that weather to prairie elevators. Why could the railway not run similar equipment with diesel fuel like the farmers do through the mountains?

Broadcast ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:45 p.m.

Hamilton West Ontario

Liberal

Stan Keyes LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, I know the hon. member has a working knowledge of the Canada Transportation Act. He knows that it is the intention of the CTA to modernize and streamline rail regulation, promote the formation of shortline railways, ensure that shippers continue to have access to competitive transportation services. Unfortunately, and the hon. member hit on it, the act cannot predict or prevent bad weather.

On the subject of the movement of grain, the government is concerned about the current situation. However, we want to focus on solutions, not finger pointing, to improve the efficiency of the entire system from the farm gate to the ship clearing the port.

There have been dramatic improvements in the shipment of grain to the west coast in recent weeks. Rail car unloads during March averaged 4,400 cars per week as compared to under 4,000 for the last week of February.

Grain terminals are now operating seven days a week and the number of ships waiting on the west coast has been reduced to 13 from 43 in mid-February.

The situation is improving on the prairies and on the west coast. The backlog is being dealt with. It is not our intention to forget the problems encountered this winter, nor should we look backward to start assigning blame, as the hon. member would like us to do.

Instead I suggest to the hon. member that we need to take the opportunity to look ahead to find ways to make long term improvements to the system. Finding solutions will require the co-operation of all parties concerned. Ministers responsible for transport or agriculture from the four western provinces have called an inquiry which is just one of the several options now being considered. Whatever the option ultimately chosen by the government, our main objective must be to ensure that we have the most efficient, effective and reliable grain transportation and handling system possible for our producers, shippers and customers.

Broadcast ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:45 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

A motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at two o'clock.

(The House adjourned at 7.52 p.m.)