House of Commons Hansard #139 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was agency.

Topics

Canadian Wheat Board ActPrivate Members' Business

6:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Canadian Wheat Board ActPrivate Members' Business

6:10 p.m.

Reform

Howard Hilstrom Reform Selkirk—Interlake, MB

Mr. Speaker, I support the member for Portage—Lisgar in putting forward Bill C-283.

I would like to clarify the position of the Reform Party and myself with regard to the Canadian Wheat Board. We support the Canadian Wheat Board in its operation as a voluntary marketing agency. That should clarify NDP and Liberal statements which say that we are dead against it.

The member for Charleswood St. James—Assiniboia said that the Canadian Wheat Board is a competitor on the world stage. This competitor has to have the trust of the producers who supply it with product. That is where the current Canadian Wheat Board, with its single desk selling, falls down: basic trust.

The position of the Canadian Wheat Board, which is in essence the position of the current government due to the fact that it appoints so many people to the Canadian Wheat Board, is that it needs to keep prices, contracts and other assorted information secret. That may very well be true. Certainly Cargill, ADM, Sask Pool and the other big grain companies would also want to keep some of the information secret. The wheat board says that if it did not keep it secret it would not be able to extract premiums from the marketplace.

This is where the distrust comes in. How does the farmer know that in fact the premium is being extracted? This is where the socialist-type politicians represented by the NDP and the Liberals differ from myself and the Reform Party. We say that if the farmer wants to determine where the best price is, he goes to Cargill, he goes to the Canadian Wheat Board, he goes to UGG, he goes to Sask Pool and AgriCorp and they start giving him prices. “I will give you $4 for your wheat. I will give you $4.50. I will give you $4.75” and so on.

The farmer is no dummy. He is going to take the highest price. He does not need to know that the premium was extracted in Korea for instance. The point we have to make here is the information this bill would bring out would be a first step in attempting to get information so that farmers would trust the Canadian Wheat Board.

In the little time I have remaining I would like to comment on the Canadian Wheat Board elections that are coming up in a very short time. In the latest information we see that 33 of the 65 candidates are running on a voluntary wheat board platform. We will see that the vote will also reflect in an unofficial way a referendum on the support for a voluntary marketing board for Canadian wheat and barley. At the present time a price of 86 cents a bushel is being received in the west. That is clearly not good enough. Farmers need a choice.

With that I await the day when we have a voluntary wheat board and farmers can market their grain where they want.

Canadian Wheat Board ActPrivate Members' Business

6:15 p.m.

Malpeque P.E.I.

Liberal

Wayne Easter LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans

Mr. Speaker, I take great pleasure in speaking to the bill proposed by the member for Portage—Lisgar.

The member went to great length in his remarks about cash prices in the United States, price spreads and so on. However he failed to mention the times over the whole year that the Canadian Wheat Board returns to producers, to farmers, more dollars in their pockets than the American system returns to the pockets of its farmers. That is a fact. It has been shown over the history of the Canadian Wheat Board. All studies have shown that.

The 1995-96 annual report of the Canadian Wheat Board states “A performance evaluation conducted during the 1995-96 crop year showed Canada ranks highly with its customers in such areas as quality of product, customer service, technical support and dependability of supply”. The most important point is that another study conducted by three economists showed that the Canadian wheat board single desk system generates an additional $265 million per year in wheat revenue for farmers. That is what the Canadian Wheat Board does. It enhances Canada's competitiveness. The study also showed that the Canadian Wheat Board provides a low cost marketing service to farmers. That is performance.

Anyone who watches the market knows that at any given time we can pick a higher price here and a lower price there, but when we really do a study we find the facts are there. The Canadian Wheat Board with its single desk selling system returns more money to primary producers than what that dog eat dog system in the United States does for its primary producers. One of the reasons the United States Congress is having to pump subsidies into the farm community in the United States is that the Americans do not have a Canadian Wheat Board which can maximize returns to producers in the marketplace.

I do not want to be misinterpreted. Given the world situation and the way the United States and Europe are undermining prices in the world, our producers are finding it very tough. Thank goodness they have the Canadian Wheat Board to maximize the returns that are in fact in that marketplace.

I know the intent of the member for Portage—Lisgar is to try to assist producers. In the very short time I have left I will deal with the bill.

When we were in hearings in western Canada the producers indicated that they wanted the wheat board to have accountability and transparency. And of course we on the government side listened. We did provide that accountability within the board's structure.

When they are elected, the board of directors will have access to all Canadian Wheat Board operating data, including the prices at which grain was sold, the price premiums realized and the operating costs. They will be in a position to review the wheat board's operations. They will have the power to make changes that are in the best interests of farmers. In other words, the directors will be able to ensure that farmers are getting fair value for their money from that system.

This government made those changes and we stand by them. The board is there for farmers and we want to see it remain a single desk selling agency. We do not need this bill.

Canadian Wheat Board ActPrivate Members' Business

6:20 p.m.

Reform

Garry Breitkreuz Reform Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe what we have just heard from the Parliamentary Secretary for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. He lives in Prince Edward Island. He knows that the Canadian Wheat Board applies only to the provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba and does not allow the people in those provinces to market their grain freely. He knows that he does not have to comply with the wheat board yet he sits there defending it.

He probably does not even know what the initial price of wheat is right now that the wheat board is handing out. That is why we have a farm income crisis on the prairies. It is about time this government started to listen because it is a very serious problem. It is because grain prices are so low and farmers do not have the choice.

As I sit here and listen to the debate in the House in Private Members' Business, one thing occurs to me. Probably what is being debated after hours in the House of Commons is more important to the people of Canada than the bills that are being introduced by this government all day long. Private Members' Business probably addresses some of the key concerns that Canadians have. This is one of those concerns. There are major concerns out there with regard to the Canadian Wheat Board.

Why do we need to have more transparency? A free, open and democratic society needs to have transparency in its institutions, especially if an institution is a monopoly. If we have a government granted monopoly and we expect people to comply with it willingly, that monopoly, that organization, the Canadian Wheat Board, needs to have the confidence of the people who must comply with the monopoly powers of that agency. That is why this whole discussion is so important.

There are many reports that the Canadian Wheat Board is dumping grain on the international market into the U.S., that it is selling grain below its competitors on the Minneapolis Stock Exchange. We have no way of knowing if those reports are true. That is why we need someone who can go into the books and report to the farmers who must comply with that agency as to whether or not that accusation is true.

Whether we like the agency or not, we still need to have that transparency. Without that, it is going to have serious problems.

I took the amendments to Bill C-4, the Canadian Wheat Board Act brought forth by this government to the farmers in my riding. I took a survey and used several different instruments to find out what farmers thought. One of the things I found was that over 80% of the farmers in my riding, and this is probably representative of farmers in the three prairie provinces, supported the idea that is being proposed here, that the auditor general be allowed to look at the books. Yet that government over there is defending this abhorrent situation.

It is time the people of Canada came to the rescue of farmers and helped them out in this situation. If over 80% of farmers want transparency and they want the auditor general to look at the books and report as to whether they are doing a good job, it is time we listened because they are forced by this government to comply.

Canadian Wheat Board ActPrivate Members' Business

6:25 p.m.

Reform

Jake Hoeppner Reform Portage—Lisgar, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure entering a debate on the Canadian Wheat Board.

I suggest the auditor general should not audit books just of government agencies but also the common sense of the Liberal government. The auditor general would have a very small job. It would not take him very long.

When I hear members on the government side saying look at what the wheat board is doing, let the members opposite tell me why every farmer is growing more canola than the previous year. The farmer is growing more lentils, more navy beans and more hemp. The Liberal government supported the growing of hemp. If the wheat board is doing such a good job with their grains why do we need all these other crops? Why can these crops work on an open market?

We sold our canola at an average of 30 bushels an acre for an average of better than $8 a bushel. My neighbour is selling barley for 11 cents. Good lord, how is my neighbour supposed to grow the bloody stuff? He cannot even drive it to the fields to sow it for that price. This is the job the wheat board is doing for us?

A commodity broker phoned me about two weeks ago and asked why he cannot buy durum from Canada. He said he bid $20 a tonne over asking price at Thunder Bay for a unit train of durum and he cannot buy it, but on the world market they are selling the same bloody durum for $20 under the asking price. He says every trader on the floor knows this.

Why are the Americans upset over the Canadian Wheat Board dumping grain? Why is this government putting at risk $1.73 billion worth of livestock going into the U.S. because it will not have a transparent wheat board? This government will not allow people to look at what it is dumping into the U.S.

We are setting the stage for a depression in western Canada if we do not get transparency. The American farmer is quite willing to compete with the Canadian farmer but he is not willing to do it at the risk of having Canadian products dumped into their market at half price. The Americans cannot subsidize their farmers enough. The Europeans cannot subsidize their farmers enough to keep up that kind of marketing system.

We need co-operation between Americans and Canadians to fight the Europeans who are our enemy but common sense on that side of the House tells us no, let us play politics with this issue. Let us do exactly what we have been doing for the last 45 years. Do the politicking on the backs of Canadian farmers. Let them suffer. The farmers cannot put food on their own tables and this government does not have enough common sense to have the books audited by the auditor general, the most accountable, the most respected person in this government.

If that is anything less than a little common sense what do we expect of our government? What will we expect of it next? Protest signs coming down and pepper spray. What are we going to do to the farmers so they keep selling grain through the wheat board, water cannons, pepper spray or what?

At this rate farmers cannot afford to grow this grain anymore. When we get 11 cents for barley, $2 for number one high protein milling wheat it does not work to pay for a $250,000 combine. It does not pay to pay our property taxes on the land. We cannot do it.

If this government does not smarten up and get realistic and put some the money into wheat board grains we are not going to have farmers left. All we are going to have is some hobby farmers who are working for the government or some other agency to put enough money up so they can afford to truck their grain to the field, sow it and then truck it off and give it to the wheat board.

We cannot afford to live without a profit. The only profit in the Canadian farm scene today is special crops and this government knows it. This government has been supporting the industry of special crops or it would not have put the motion on the floor to grow hemp. These people have been smoking something and I do not know what it is. We cannot get it through their thick heads that competition sets the price in the world today, competition drives the markets, competition will be there and it will make farmers profitable.

Canadian Wheat Board ActPrivate Members' Business

6:30 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

The time provided for the consideration of Private Members' Business has now expired and the order is dropped from the order paper.

It being 6.30 p.m., this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6.30 p.m.)