Debates of Oct. 26th, 1998

Employment Insurance

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, when we took office the intention of the previous government, had they won the election, was that the premiums were going to go to $3.30 and we did not let that happen. Not only that, but when the previous government took office those premiums were around $2. When they left office they were going to $3.30. The only issue is, when will the Tories get their research right?

Apec Inquiry

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the solicitor general has just made a statement to this House that is simply untrue. Chris Considine—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

I would ask the hon. member for Kootenay—Columbia to withdraw that assertion.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, out of respect for the Chair, I withdraw that statement.

Chris Considine, the APEC commission lawyer, does not have the authority to demand the censored documents from the RCMP or from the Prime Minister's office. The solicitor general knows that. Yet he just stood in this House and said that all the documents they wanted were available. That statement was incorrect.

When is this government going to get to the truth through an independent judicial inquiry?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is quite the contrary. Counsel to the commission has access to the information. Counsel to the commission has never expressed any problem with the availability of the information that has been requested. It is that simple.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, if that is the case, perhaps the solicitor general can explain to Canadians why it is that counsel has had to go to some of the students—the students that the Liberals denied funding for lawyers for—and he is counselling the students so they can help commission counsel get these documents.

The solicitor general does not know what is going on. My question again is: When are we going to get to an independent judicial inquiry?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the member is absolutely wrong. The complainants have access to challenge the decision of the counsel to the commission, and the counsel to the commission is doing his job by showing them how to do that according to the rules of the public complaints commission. That is how it is done.

Federal Spending Power

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on the weekend, the Prime Minister said that, in constitutional terms, and in other terms, he had settled the question of Quebec.

When he canvases the electorate in the next election, how will the Minister of Finance explain to Quebeckers that one of Quebec's main historical demands—the limitation of federal spending power in areas of provincial jurisdiction—has not been resolved at all and that the federal government continues to invade Quebec's jurisdictions?

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the fact is that federal spending power exists in all federations around the world and that, in Canada, it is used the least and is accompanied by fewer conditions.

Nevertheless, in the 1996 throne speech, the Government of Canada limited federal spending even further than what was provided in the Meech Lake accord, which was approved by the Bourassa government and by a certain federal minister of the time, Lucien Bouchard.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister should have added “and whose demise was partly the responsibility of the Prime Minister of Canada”.

On the subject of canvassing, how will the Minister of Finance explain to Quebeckers that he is continuing to refuse to compensate Quebec in the amount of $2 billion for the cost of harmonizing the GST with the QST, an amount even Jean Charest is calling for?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, when they go from door to door, the Liberal candidates will be able to say that, between 1993 and 1998, the federal government transferred to Quebec only $2.1 billion in tax points, increased equalization payments by $1 billion, gave out $200 million in tax benefits for children and provided nearly $650 million for the infrastructure program.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Derrek Konrad, Reform, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, on Saturday morning Canadians were appalled to read in the Globe and Mail about conditions on the Hobbema reserve. While some children on the reserve sleep on filthy mattresses in the basements of burned out houses, their jet set leaders are living in luxury both at home and abroad.

The official opposition together with band members has been calling for a forensic audit into the band's finances for the last year but the minister has refused.

Why is the money not getting to those who really need it?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, the pictures that members may have seen on the weekend are what I am confronted with on a daily basis as Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

These are real people with real problems and they demand real change. I am glad for this question and look forward to others which will give us the opportunity to discuss the complex relationship that exists between aboriginal people and the Government of Canada, which allow us to explore past approaches which have not worked in making change for aboriginal peoples, and to share with this House the real approach that will make sustainable change on behalf of aboriginal people that this government has presented.

[Derrek Konrad, Reform, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, even while we speak some children on the Hobbema reserve in Alberta are living in conditions that would appall an experienced foreign aid worker. Their parents are among the 80% of residents living on welfare on what should be one of the wealthiest reserves in this country.

I again ask the minister why is the money not getting to those who really need it. Where is the forensic audit that we and grassroots natives have been calling for?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad that the opposition has finally come to its senses and has realized that the circumstances on reserves are difficult and do need the support of all of us.

For far too long the solutions have been have the federal government come to the rescue, have the federal government fix the problems. We tried that at the turn of the century and it has not worked. Our approach now is to work in partnership with first nations, my goodness perhaps even with members of the opposition, to build a plan that will create real change on behalf of aboriginal people.

Health Care

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, out of solidarity with his Cabinet colleagues and the Prime Minister, the Minister of Health will have to support Jean Charest and the Liberal Party at the next election in Quebec.

What does the Minister of Health have to say to Quebeckers in response to Jean Charest, who said “Forget Lucien Bouchard, forget Jean Rochon. The one really responsible for health cuts is the Prime Minister of Canada”?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we increased transfers. Last year, we increased them by $1.5 billion, and we have already said that health is a key priority for this government. We intend, when we are in a position to do so, to reinvest in health, in partnership with the provinces.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health said he would fight the policies of Ontario's Premier Mike Harris.

How will he justify his support for Jean Charest, whose policies largely mirror those of Mike Harris?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we have our own policies. Based on these policies, health is a key priority, and we intend to reinvest in that sector soon.

Agriculture

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in 1996 a Lethbridge farmer was sentenced to a $4,000 fine or six months in jail for taking $5 worth of wheat across the border.

Today 29 farmers are going to court in Regina for doing nothing more than exporting their own grain. They did not want to sell it to Ottawa's wheat board. Now they are faced with going to jail.

Why is the justice minister seeking such cruel punishment for nothing more than a farmer selling his own grain?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, there are rules, regulations and laws applicable in every jurisdiction in this country and in the world. It is incumbent on all of us who respect democracy and the rule of law to follow those rules and regulations.

It is the responsibility of government, no matter how difficult it may be in some circumstances, to make sure that those laws are applied impartially in all circumstances, and that is what is happening in this case. Obviously this government will not comment on any case before the courts.

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure glad and assured that the minister looks after the law. The judge who handed out the cruel sentence to this Lethbridge farmer has a son who was convicted of robbing a casino at knife point in 1996. He received nothing but a suspended sentence.

A knife wielding robber gets a suspended sentence but the robber's father hands out a huge fine or a jail term to a farmer for selling—

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

The hon. Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board.

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, I have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of the allegations made by the hon. member.

I am sure these are allegations the Minister of Justice would like to inquire into in terms of the integrity of the Canadian judiciary.