Debates of Oct. 28th, 1998

Poverty

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the national child tax benefit, in which the government will invest $1.7 billion every year as of next year, was designed by this government and the governments of the provinces including the two NDP governments of the provinces of British Columbia and Saskatchewan.

This national child tax benefit will help parents to get off welfare and go out into the labour market without penalizing their children, which is the problem now in Canada. That is how we can help children.

Apec Inquiry

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, apparently the RCMP recommended that charges be laid against 11 officers with respect to their actions against protesters at last year's APEC summit.

If the RCMP felt that charges should be laid against their officers, who instructed the crown not to proceed? If the crown can instruct charges to be laid when accusations are groundless like Airbus, why were charges not laid here?

The plot thickens. Will the solicitor general tell us what he is going to do?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the decision as to whether to lay charges was a decision of the attorney general's department of British Columbia.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, there is evidence of political interference at the highest levels of this government. First Airbus, then Somalia, and now APEC. To what ends will this government go to prevent the truth from coming out?

Canadians want a government that is honest and accountable, not a Prime Minister obsessed with getting his own way to protect his partisan interests.

I ask the Prime Minister to display courage and integrity and stop this charade. Will he put the APEC affair into the hands of an independent judicial inquiry or is he afraid of what might be uncovered?

[Andy Scott, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, parliament has already decided how Canadians should deal with complaints against the RCMP. It is the public complaints commission. It was established in 1988. It has a good record. It is internationally respected and it is on the job now. It is master of its own proceedings. This government respects this parliament's decision to establish that commission.

Employment Insurance

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister says he needs a consensus to act.

There was a national consensus on employment insurance. All the provinces, all the opposition parties, everyone is asking him not to touch the employment insurance surplus.

If he is serious, why does he not act?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, our government's attitude toward this country's public finances has always been extremely responsible.

We have also behaved responsibly with the employment insurance fund, managing it a little more interestingly than was done before we took office.

We have a surplus, where the employment insurance fund used to have a deficit. The opposition should rise and congratulate us for this surplus, which stabilizes our finances.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister says that a consensus must be achieved before he can act.

Everyone in Canada is asking him to lower EI premiums and to use the EI surpluses to improve protection for the unemployed.

If he is serious about this, why is he not acting?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, when we took office, the EI rate was going up to $3.30. We have lowered it every year since. Just last year, we lowered it another 20 cents, to $2.70. This goes to show that we are committed to a steady reduction, which is an excellent thing.

In addition, we have developed, for those who were not covered by the employment insurance system, a youth employment strategy designed to help young people enter the labour market.

We have put $300 million into the transitional jobs fund while reducing—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Skeena.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, many grassroots aboriginals on reserve are demanding forensic audits as tens of millions of dollars in band funds have gone unaccounted for.

According to information obtained under access to information by the Reform Party, the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development refuses to conduct investigations unless it is requested to by the band's leadership. This is a ridiculous conflict of interest.

Will the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development acknowledge that it is preposterous to believe that any chief or council would ever ask to have themselves investigated?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, in my view what the hon. member is clarifying is the relationship that the Reform Party would build with First Nations in this country if it had a chance. What the Reform Party would do is make sure it took $1 billion out of services and programs that go directly to First Nations. The Reform Party would ensure that the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development used nothing but policing mechanisms like forensic audits.

We have learned that we have to go beyond that controlling relationship and build a partnership with First Nations.

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to quote from these access to information documents: “Forensic audits are extremely expensive and time consuming, and a request from a few upset band members would not be enough to warrant one”.

Surely an urban Liberal like the minister of Indian affairs can understand that people who are freezing and starving in tarpaper shacks are not—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Skeena.

[Mike Scott, Reform, Skeena, BC]

Mr. Speaker, surely the minister can understand that people who are freezing and starving in tarpaper shacks are not being frivolous when they ask for these forensic audits.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, let me clarify that I am a farm girl. Like all farmers and indeed all Canadians, we understand that in order to be effective all governments must be accountable and transparent. The First Nations understand that as well.

That is why in partnership with this government we are working on a program to review the management practices of every First Nation in Canada. We are doing that at the local level. At the regional level, chiefs like the chiefs of Alberta are coming together to set minimum standards for accountability practices in their work with their communities. At the national level—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Wild Rose.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I find the minister's answers to be ridiculous. I have been visiting the reserves in my riding and in Alberta for five years. People are living in old broken down buses. They are sitting on apple crates. Nothing is happening because this minister refuses to talk to the people. When will she talk to the grassroots, find out what the problems are and come up with some solutions?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the hon. member is visiting First Nations communities. With that experience maybe he can talk to his leader and his party and explain to them why cutting $1 billion out of the programs and services, which include houses and schools, to First Nations would be absolutely ridiculous.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, you bet I would cut $1 billion and it would come from the minister's bureaucracy—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Wild Rose.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, after we saved the $1 billion by getting rid of the bureaucracy, we would give it to the people who need it the most.

Jerry Fontaine is the chief of the Sagkeeng reserve. His reserve is $11 million in debt. It has ordered a $12 million school although it does not have any money. It spends over half a million dollars a year on wages for chiefs and council. Why does this minister not order a forensic audit for that reserve? It deserves it.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, first let us be clear that 90% of funding that comes through my department goes to First Nations for programs and services. Beyond that let us understand what the Reform Party is saying. It wants to cut money, it wants forensic audits, it wants to pit members in one community against each other. I will have none of it, none of it.