Debates of Feb. 2nd, 1998

Banking

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, some time ago in the middle of the last mandate the government put in place a process to deal with this kind of issue. That task force will report in September. Following that report there will be ample time for parliamentary committee and full public discussion.

We are going to insist that timetable be lived up to. I assure the House of one thing. Unless this deal or any other deal works Canadians it will not work at all.

Iraq

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

I spoke with the Prime Minister on the phone yesterday. I sent him a letter concerning the situation in the Gulf and the possibility of an armed conflict with Iraq, among other things. It is quite possible that Canada will find itself in a war situation before very long.

I would like to know whether the Prime Minister intends to make a statement in the House of Commons informing the Canadian people of his government's position on this conflict.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the leader of the Conservative Party for calling to inform me of his intention to ask this question.

As I told the press last Friday, I received a phone call from the President of the United States. We spoke about a number of things. We discussed the situation in Iraq, and I told him that the government's position, as the leader of the Conservative Party has said himself, is that we wish to see a diplomatic solution.

The Russians and the French are actively involved in this at the moment. The President of the United States did not in any way ask us to go to war. Should there be any such request, I can assure the hon. leader of the Conservative Party that there will certainly be a debate.

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with all respect it is not the position of the Russians, the French or the British that we are interested in. We are interested in what is the position of the Canadian government.

Contrary to the practice of this government, this is not another Kyoto and it should not be. If Canada may end up at war soon, the Canadian people deserve to know what the position of the Government of Canada is.

Will the prime minister make a full statement to the House of Commons? Will he strike a joint House of Commons-Senate committee and call before the committee the minister of foreign affairs, the minister of defence and the chief of defence staff?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the Conservative Party said that he is in favour of a diplomatic solution. That is the position of the government.

If ever there was to be a war, we would be facing this question and there would be a debate in the House of Commons at that time.

[Jean Charest, Progressive Conservative, Sherbrooke, QC]

Before.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

There is no war and there is no demand by anybody for us to be in a war. I have said that we want Saddam Hussein to respect the resolution of the United Nations Security Council because the situation cannot remain like it is. It is a very clear statement, but there is no request at this time by anybody to start a war in which Canada will be involved.

Helicopters

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, speaking of a war of words, in 1993 during the campaign the prime minister said “Zero helicopters, period. Zero helicopters”.

Now in 1998 he says “Okay, 15 helicopters. Actually they will be the same kind of helicopters and actually they will cost $200 million more than we thought they would”. What a steal of a deal; a Liberal would think that is good bargaining.

I dare the prime minister to stand in his place to defend the decision to get helicopters now after originally cancelling them based purely on politics and politics alone.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have no problem saying that when we were facing a deficit of $42 billion we could not afford one helicopter and we did not buy one.

After that there was a white paper, endorsed by everyone, which said that some day we would have to buy helicopters. We have bought 15 helicopters for search and rescue at 40% less. We are spending less than $800 million at this time, and the Tories wanted to pay at that time $5.8 billion for helicopters.

[Deborah Grey, Reform, Edmonton North, AB]

Mr. Speaker, what happened in fact was that when the prime minister said they would not buy any the deficit was higher. Look at the debt right now. It is $600 billion and increasing every second. What kind of a deal is that? They are not 40% less and the prime minister knows it. They cost more.

The government and the prime minister are single-handedly responsible for the mishandling of the helicopter hysteria.

I will ask the prime minister one more time how he can defend a decision that is so shamefully based on politics and politics alone.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, talking about hysteria, I do not know on which side of the aisle you would find it.

I am very happy to know that the Reform Party does not want to buy helicopters for search and rescue when we know that we have to replace the ones we have by the year 2001.

Ice Storm

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, during the ice storm the Minister of Human Resources Development announced, with much pomp but little in the way of results, $45 million in assistance, $25 million of it in Quebec, in the form of normal federal programs of the targeted wage subsidy and job creation partnership type.

In order to really help storm victims, will the minister undertake to relax the criteria for the targeted wage subsidies program so that wages are 100 per cent reimbursed by the federal government, since community organizations, businesses and municipalities do not have the financial means to assume their current share?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague in the Bloc Quebecois for asking me this question, which gives me a chance to point out that it is not completely true to say that there was little in the way of results.

We have already invested $3.5 million in job creation programs in the areas affected by the storm in order to help people rebuild, to improve the situation; $3.5 million is something.

Many of the programs available to employers, communities and municipalities are already 100 per cent in job creation partnerships, as provided for under the legislation.

I think that, right now, the measures are meeting the needs of communities.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I think the minister is mistaken about job creation partnership programs, which are 100 per cent funded, it is true, but the targeted wage subsidy program is not.

My second question has to do specifically with the job creation program. Will the minister undertake immediately to relax the criteria for the job creation partnership program, so that employers can request funds to buy necessary equipment, which is not possible under the program's current criteria?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I think it important to relax some of the criteria. In certain cases, I believe it will be possible to buy certain kinds of equipment.

It is obvious that these measures are directed primarily at job creation. We are in the process of looking at certain adjustments that could be made in this regard.

I am also counting on the Bloc Quebecois to help us relax certain attitudes so that municipalities can come and work with us to set up programs that will be very useful to all municipalities with significant needs.

Banking

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are very concerned about high service fees at the banks, about the lack of credit for small business and about the virtual monopoly hold the big six banks have on our banking system. This is why it is particularly alarming to see the Royal Bank and the Bank of Montreal on television making banking policy while the finance minister is at home brushing his teeth.

Who is really setting policy here? Is it the Royal Bank and the Bank of Montreal or is it the government? Who is setting policy on banking?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

First of all, Mr. Speaker, it is a habit that the hon. member might want to get into.

The hon. member can be very much assured that this government is going to set policy. That is why the task force on financial institutions was set up. It is why we made it very clear that when it reports in September it will be submitted to a parliamentary committee for full parliamentary debate. It is why in fact within the government caucus itself a study group has been set up to look at it.

We would hope in fact that opposition members themselves would take this matter very seriously.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we are certainly glad to hear that. We were just a little concerned that we would have one of the bank presidents up here introducing the budget in three weeks.

The fact is other banks are not going to sit around and wait while the Royal Bank and the Bank of Montreal eat their lunch for them. This is just the beginning and consumers do not seem to have a voice in this whole process.

What plans does the minister have to deal with any more bank mergers, or should we be directing that question to the presidents of the other banks?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, what the hon. member might simply want to do is take a look at what in fact the government has said.

The reason that we said that the government as far as the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions would not begin to look at this merger was precisely that we were not going to allow anybody to jump the queue.

The fact is that government policy will be set following a full public debate which itself will follow the task force report. Only at that point will we begin to consider this or any other similar merger.

Ice Storm

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

In the regions affected by the ice storm, the plight of maple syrup producers is tragic. Their production is seriously threatened and extraordinary measures must quickly be taken to help these people.

Does the minister intend to make changes to the partnership program designed to promote employment, in terms of the budgets allocated to the cleanup of sugarbushes affected by the ice storm, so as to truly meet the needs of maple syrup producers?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to see the interest shown by hon. members in the initiatives taken by us during the crisis, with all the means available to the Department of Human Resources Development.

Let me say that maple syrup producers were among those we particularly had in mind when we were looking for ways to quickly provide assistance and budgets, precisely so they would not lose very important investments. These producers are among those who have already started signing partnership agreements with us.

Some are already receiving money out of the $45 million fund allocated for those affected by the ice storm.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, more specifically, and since the skilled labour required to do this type of work does not always meet the program's criteria, which means there could be a shortage of skilled workers, is the minister prepared to make his criteria more flexible so as to quickly allow for the hiring of competent workers who can help our maple syrup producers recover from such a disaster?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is important to realize and to recognize that the moneys from the employment insurance fund are there primarily to help the unemployed join the labour market. However, this $45 million includes another $5 million to be spent through the Youth Employment Strategy, under which one does not have to be an employment insurance claimant to be eligible.

The hon. member referred to the possibility of a shortage. We will cross that bridge when we get to it. Meanwhile, I can assure you that the $45 million fund is a very important tool of assistance regarding which we should be congratulated, instead of being asked such questions.

Iraq

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, as Saddam Hussein continues to defy international law, the Liberals sit on the fence. They do not send a message to our allies.

After immediately sending ships, air support and hospital units in 1991, what will this government do in 1998 if in fact we need to send military forces? What resources will we use?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, to begin with let me correct the record. As members just heard, the prime minister had a direct conversation with the president of the United States on Friday. We have been in active consultation with a number of allies over the past two or three weeks. I met with British foreign secretary Robin Cook 10 days ago. We are looking at the situation.

We fully agree that Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi government must live up to their obligations. We are very concerned about all the reports that they are continuing to develop weapons of mass destruction. We insist that they live up to the obligations of the United Nations, which is exactly what every other country that supports the United Nations has said.

We do not intend however to start making judgments until we have had the full process worked out.