House of Commons Hansard #94 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was world.

Topics

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Calgary Southwest Alberta

Reform

Preston Manning ReformLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, tonight MPs have a chance to vote in favour of compensating all those victims who contracted hepatitis C from tainted blood.

The health minister says that the government should not accept responsibility for victims prior to 1986 because there was no way to detect hepatitis C in the blood supply before that time. However, Justice Krever says that there was a test available to the government as far back as 1981 and the government never acted.

I ask the government again, in the name of justice, why will it not simply let MPs vote for these victims tonight?

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, what we are talking about is an agreement between the federal government and all the provincial governments and territories.

If the opposition parties are silent and do not criticize the provincial governments for being part of this agreement, then logically and credibly they should not be attacking the federal government for being part of the same agreement.

I invite the Reform Party and the opposition parties to rethink their positions. If they do, I think they will see why we are opposing the motion.

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Calgary Southwest Alberta

Reform

Preston Manning ReformLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, that is an irrelevant answer to a question that was never asked.

The real arguments come from the health minister. He keeps on repeating that compensating hepatitis C victims would open up the legal floodgates to everyone, but that argument is also false.

Contracting hepatitis C from tainted blood was not some unavoidable accident. What we are talking about is compensating people who became ill because of proven government negligence.

I ask again, in the name of compassion and fairness, why will the government not allow the MPs to vote for these victims?

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, why is it that since the last election the Reform Party did vote as a group on every measure except three times?

Certainly there is an argument for coherence on the part of the Reform Party. Certainly there is the same argument when it comes to measures like this one.

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Calgary Southwest Alberta

Reform

Preston Manning ReformLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, this government has not only lost its head, it has lost its heart as well.

It is forcing Liberals who got involved in politics to build a just society to be unjust. It is forcing Liberals who profess compassion to vote against compassion. It is forcing Liberals who know what is right in this case to vote against it.

My question is, why is the government forcing its members to vote against justice, compassion and against what they know in their hearts is right?

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, why is the leader of the Reform Party shedding crocodile tears for Liberal members today when the real fact is he is not interested in their best interests, he is interested in his best interests and those of his party?

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Reform

Deborah Grey Reform Edmonton North, AB

Mr. Speaker, that is not true and this government knows it.

The tears are being shed by all victims of hepatitis C who contracted this disease through government negligence and government negligence alone.

Many of these Liberal backbenchers got involved in politics because they really cared. They really thought that they would go to Ottawa and do the right thing.

They may laugh, but I have one question for this government. When people know what is right in their hearts, why is it they might wear just a little ribbon and say “I love you, but only on my lapel”?

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, we are here to do our best and to do what is right. That is the position of all of us in this House.

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Reform

Deborah Grey Reform Edmonton North, AB

Mr. Speaker, the government talks about doing what is right. It knows exactly what it has to do to do what is right, that is, to compensate all victims of tainted blood. It did it with HIV. It did it over the years with thalidomide. It could do it today because it knows in its heart what is right.

I want to ask this government one more time: Why does it hide behind legalities and technicalities? Why does it not do what is right and allow its members to vote for hepatitis C victims?

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, why is the hon. member completely silent when it comes to the matter of talking about the position of the provincial governments on this matter? Their position is exactly the same as the federal government's position.

I repeat, if they cannot criticize the provincial governments, then logically, credibly, on every basis, they should not be criticizing the federal government.

If the provincial governments are right, then the federal government, on this issue, cannot be wrong.

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, usually, it is the opposition parties that insist on having certain issues become the object of a confidence vote.

However, as regards the motion on which we will vote this evening, it is the Prime Minister himself who raised the issue of confidence, contrary to the conventions which, generally speaking, provide that only budget issues can be the object of a confidence vote.

How can the government insist on making the vote on the hepatitis C motion a vote of confidence, if not to muzzle some of its members who want—

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

The Speaker

The Deputy Prime Minister.

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is wrong. In our system, it is up to the Prime Minister, not the opposition, to decide whether a motion is a motion of confidence.

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, let us take an example. When the House voted on the amendment concerning school boards, the Prime Minister decided it would be a free vote, on the grounds that members should vote according to their conscience.

Why was the vote on an amendment affecting school boards a matter of conscience, but not the vote on a motion to compensate hepatitis C victims? Can the Deputy Prime Minister explain that?

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, the situation is not the same. It is a different situation and this is why today's vote is a confidence vote.

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Bloc

Pauline Picard Bloc Drummond, QC

Mr. Speaker, the Deputy Prime Minister suggested to recalcitrant Liberal members that there is a possibility of a new compensation program for excluded victims. The Minister of Human Resources Development ruled out this possibility, however, as did the Minister of Health and the Prime Minister.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister have the courage to admit that he alluded to the possibility of a new program for the sole reason of reassuring members such as the member for Gatineau and making sure that they vote against their convictions?

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, I did not announce a new program, nor was it my intention to announce a new program.

We are here to reject the attack on the agreement between the federal government and all provinces, including Quebec, relating to this difficult matter.

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Bloc

Pauline Picard Bloc Drummond, QC

Mr. Speaker, the government continues to treat hepatitis C victims differently from HIV victims, claiming that the cost would be too high.

Why is the federal government, which is certainly not short of money, refusing fair and equitable treatment for hepatitis C victims?

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Health

Mr. Speaker, we applied the same principle in the case of hepatitis C victims that we did with HIV victims. We accepted the notion of responsibility, or fault. In the case of HIV victims, it is clear that, during the period in question, the government could have taken action to prevent these infections. We applied exactly the same principle.

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

NDP

Bill Blaikie NDP Winnipeg—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health who, like his colleague, hides behind the provincial governments.

Is the Minister of Health not aware that under questioning in the Manitoba legislature the minister of health for Manitoba, the hon. Darren Praznik, has as much as said that the provinces were prisoners, somewhat like Liberal backbenchers, of the Minister of Health's willingness to only put money on the table for the 1986-1990 window? That was all that was on the table and the provinces—

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. Minister of Health.

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Health

Mr. Speaker, that is absolute nonsense.

Coming to the point, there are those beyond the political forum who are able to see that the governments of Canada are right in the approach they have taken to this issue. I refer, for example, to the 16 deans of Canada's medical schools who met last weekend and whose executive issued a resolution saying that indeed the governments are right in offering compensation to those who were infected in the 1986 to 1990 time period.

It is good public policy. We are all—

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member for Winnipeg—Transcona.

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

NDP

Bill Blaikie NDP Winnipeg—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, the minister did not address the matter of the provinces being willing to go beyond the 1986-1990 period if the federal government had been willing to put more money on the table.

Instead of hiding behind the provinces and blaming them for a situation they did not create, would the minister be willing to put more money on the table and start up the negotiations to get some compensation for the other victims?

Hepatitis COral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Health

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should know, for his information, that as of last summer there was no provincial government prepared to talk about compensating any hepatitis C victims.

The only reason we have $1.1 billion being offered to 22,000 victims of hepatitis C is that the federal government took the leadership and made that happen.