House of Commons Hansard #94 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was world.

Topics

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3:20 p.m.

Reform

Eric C. Lowther Reform Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments of the hon. member across the way. I agree that the focus on child poverty is misplaced. We are better to focus on the situation of the Canadian family overall if we really want to improve the lot of children. They are not disembodied entities. They are part of families.

Certainly the Reform Party shares the concern about the stresses of the economy on families. It is part of the reason that we see one of our critical mandates as being one of job creation. The head of the family, whoever it may be, must be able to find a job. We do not see increased government spending as the road to job creation, but lowering taxes and decreasing the bureaucracy on many of those small business people and others who provide jobs for people. That is the road to a healthier economy which in turn will benefit the children within these families.

I want to make one other point that we sometimes gloss over on this debate about the tax credit and recognition that is given to institutionalized care, but not to those who choose to care for their families at home. More critical than the financial impact on these families is the subtle message that this sends to them if they choose to stay at home and care for their children. There are some sacrifices involved in that. I realize not everybody wants to do it. However, if they choose to do it the message they are getting from the policies we have today is that there is absolutely no value in it. The government will not recognize it.

When we send these subtle messages they serve to undermine the strength of the families and they serve, in part, to cause some of the family breakdown we have had. That is why I think it is so critical that we not only worry about the financial impacts, but the message we are sending as far as the value of the parent-child bond.

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3:20 p.m.

Bloc

Benoît Sauvageau Bloc Repentigny, QC

Mr. Speaker, there were discussions during question period and I would now ask for unanimous consent to have this motion made votable.

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3:20 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

The hon. member for Repentigny has asked that this motion be made votable. Is there unanimous consent?

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3:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

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3:20 p.m.

Bloc

Benoît Sauvageau Bloc Repentigny, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Reform member who spoke to the motion and refused to make it votable.

In view of the lack of compassion shown by Liberal members who have turned us down four or five times today and their lack of compassion with regard to compensation for victims of hepatitis C, I would like to ask a question of my Reform colleague who is telling us how to raise our children after his colleague told us there were too many divorces.

Are these sterile, senseless, pointless discussions not proof enough it is necessary and urgent to set up a parliamentary committee to discuss the gap between rich and poor in the context of globalization, in a less partisan and more thoughtful manner?

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3:25 p.m.

Reform

Eric C. Lowther Reform Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, I have one correction to make. I did not vote no. It was the member across the way. I am always supportive of free votes in this House. I recognized the question, so I wanted to clarify that.

As far as the parliamentary committee is concerned, these things cost a lot of money. I know, as do many hon. members, that there are some straightforward things we can do to correct current policy, things that do not cost anything, that can save taxpayers and that can impact immediately the family and the children in a positive way without incurring more taxpayers' money on more committees and that type of thing.

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3:25 p.m.

Bellechasse—Etchemins—Montmagny—L'Islet Québec

Liberal

Gilbert Normand LiberalSecretary of State (Agriculture and Agri-Food)(Fisheries and Oceans)

Mr. Speaker, if you would allow me, first, as a good Liberal, I would ask for permission to share my time with my colleague, the member for Abitibi.

Our opposition colleagues do not seem to recognize the government's commitment or its previous record of improving the economy and giving our young people more job opportunities.

As we said in our initial action plan for renewing the federation, entitled “Creating Opportunity” and repeated in the document “Securing our Future Together”, the future belongs to societies that have a dynamic economy, that look after public health, that promote child development and that invest in knowledge, education and innovation.

The Government of Canada has clearly indicated that these are our values and priorities. Moreover, we are making progress in each of these sectors. My colleagues have already outlined some of our outstanding achievements in this regard, our exceptional results in putting our fiscal house in order and our increased investments in health care and in programs designed to reduce child poverty.

My remarks will then focus first and foremost on the efforts made to help Canadians acquire the skills and knowledge that they will need to support competition in an ever changing world. We should not delude ourselves; the world is changing very rapidly.

The technological revolution, the information society and the world economy are modern realities that go beyond our borders and over which we have no control as a country.

Canada's economic opportunities increasingly depend on the skills and strengths of our labour force. As well, our quality of life depends on our ability to think, innovate and create in a world transformed by information and technology.

Those who question this fundamental fact in the new economy only have to look at the present job situation. Since 1981, the number of jobs for Canadians with only a high school diploma has fallen by 2 million, while the number of jobs requiring more advanced skills has risen by more than 5 million.

Obviously, Canadians with higher education levels have better job opportunities, better job security and higher-paid jobs. The unemployment level for people without a high school diploma stands at 15%, while it is only 5% for university graduates. Training will help to reduce the gap between these two groups.

This is why the cornerstone of the new Canada opportunities strategy is the Canada millennium scholarship program. I want to point out that more than 100,000 scholarships, funded through an initial endowment of $2.5 billion, will be granted each year to full—and part-time students during the first 10 years of the next millennium.

The Canada millennium scholarship program will invest in the knowledge and creativity of young Canadian and improve their access to post-secondary education. The scholarships will average $3,000 a year per student.

Whether they choose to attend a cegep, a community college, a professional or technical institution or a university, students will be eligible to receive up to $15,000 over a four-year period to complete their education and get a diploma or a certificate.

The Canada opportunities strategy will help Canadians still in school or already in the workforce to increase their knowledge and their skills in order to improve their career opportunities.

The number of adults who choose to go back to school full time is three times higher than it was 20 years ago. Most of them have made that decision because of work related reasons. The strategy will make this easier for a greater number of people. Starting on January 1, 1999, Canadians will be allowed to withdraw funds from their RRSPs tax free in order to go back to school.

For those who have completed their education but are facing financial difficulties and find it hard to pay back their student loans, the Canadian opportunities strategy provides for more flexibility as well as interest relief. Interest relief on Canada student loans means that the Canadian government will make interest payments for up to 30 months after the completion of the student's education. The income threshold to qualify for relief is $20,460.

Families are encouraged to save a little bit of money each month for their children's education. The Canada education savings grant will help them. Families that contribute to a registered education savings plan will receive a 20% grant from the Canadian government for the first $2,000 in contributions. Small savings today could pave the way to a brilliant future in post-secondary education.

All these measures will bring about sustainable and meaningful improvements and will be a very effective and tangible way to fight poverty. The Canadian opportunities strategy will be a great contribution to the fight against poverty.

The strategy will make post-secondary education more accessible by helping needy students overcome the problem of higher education costs. We will be giving more help to students who have to support dependents, to part-time students and to those who conduct advanced research or go pursue graduate studies

We will help students pay back their student loans. We will help families save money for their children's education. We will encourage employers to hire young people, and we will help a greater number of students take advantage of information technologies.

Our Canadian opportunities strategy introduced in the last budget and our employment insurance system are two good examples of how the federal government devotes its energy to helping Canadians adjust to changes on the job market in the 1990s and take advantage of opportunities in the new economy.

Our goal is to create more opportunities for Canadians, and young Canadians in particular, to succeed in the new knowledge based economy. I therefore urge the hon. members to recognize the action taken by this government to help reduce the income spread between Canadians and fight poverty.

It was Theodore Roosevelt who said that those who build the future are the ones who do something, not those who complain about how it should have been done.

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3:30 p.m.

Bloc

Benoît Sauvageau Bloc Repentigny, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to direct my question and comments to the hon. member who recycles speeches on the budget.

I will first remind him of a few statistics, then I will have a very simple question to ask him.

According to the National Council of Welfare, there were 900,000 children living in poverty in 1989. When the Liberals took office in 1993, there were 1.4 million of them. In 1996, after three years of Liberal government, the number had risen to 1.5 million.

I need not read today's motion over, but I listened carefully to what the hon. member said and I do not think he got the point. So, my simple question is the following. What should we be discussing in this House today?

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3:30 p.m.

Liberal

Gilbert Normand Liberal Bellechasse—Etchemins—Montmagny—L'Islet, QC

Mr. Speaker, I think we are talking about the sharing of wealth. I must tell the member opposite that, personally, before entering the political arena, I worked in the area of social development. I was then one of the organizers of the summit that is taking place right now in Quebec City and I certainly know what I am talking about.

The sharing of wealth is essential to the fight against poverty and it is the federal government's responsibility. However, the federal government is not solely responsible for everything that goes on in the community. There are other levels of government, and we want to work with them, especially the Quebec government.

I can even tell the member that I personally asked the organizer of the summit that is taking place at this very moment in Quebec City if the federal government could participate in this summit, but he refused.

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3:35 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Guay Bloc Laurentides, QC

Mr. Speaker, if the provinces have so many problems, it is because of the cuts in transfer payments that they have been subjected to for several years. The government has imposed these cuts on all the provinces.

I would like to ask the member opposite—his riding must resemble any other riding—if, in his riding, there are soup kitchens and shelters for poor people. Have their numbers not increased over the last few years? Does he not feel that wealth is not distributed equally everywhere?

Maybe the member could comment on that, unless his riding is so wealthy that people there do not need these services.

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3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Gilbert Normand Liberal Bellechasse—Etchemins—Montmagny—L'Islet, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will not talk about wealth and poverty. I will simply say that in my riding of Bellechasse—Etchemins—Montmagny—L'Islet, of which I am very proud, people have decided to take control of their own destiny.

The fact that people decide to take control of their own destiny in our communities often leads to success. The role of governments, including ours, is to help communities. I always tell my constituents to bring forward their projects and that we will be there to help them and to support their development.

That is why things are going well in the riding of Bellechasse—Etchemins—Montmagny—L'Islet. Yes, there are soup kitchens, but I can tell you that people in that riding have taken control of their own destiny. They want to develop and they want to broaden their horizons because a growing number of our industries compete in international markets. It is precisely by helping them do that that we fight poverty.

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3:35 p.m.

Bloc

Benoît Sauvageau Bloc Repentigny, QC

Mr. Speaker, in his answer to a question put by the hon. member for Laurentides, we got a slight hint that the hon. member for Bellechasse—Etchemins—Montmagny—L'Islet was beginning to understand what we are talking about.

I will gladly read to him the motion before the House, because he has not read it. He talked about a lot of things, but forgot the subject of our debate today. The motion is as follows:

That this House reiterate the 1989 commitment to eliminating child poverty by the year 2000, urge the government to act, and strike an all-party Special Parliamentary Committee—

We are not blaming anyone here. We just wanted to address this issue and we did not need the Liberal budget to do so. Is the member in favour of striking an all-party committee to discuss the gap between the rich and the poor in this era of globalization?

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3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Gilbert Normand Liberal Bellechasse—Etchemins—Montmagny—L'Islet, QC

Mr. Speaker, in answer to the hon. member, I would point out that I have read the motion. I do not think that the federal government can, all by itself, fight poverty. A people's summit would be far better than any parliamentary committee.

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3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Guy St-Julien Liberal Abitibi, QC

Mr. Speaker, this is not the first time I have risen in this Parliament to speak on poverty.

The Bloc Quebecois' motion reads as follows:

That this House reiterate the 1989 commitment to eliminating child poverty by the year 2000—

(1) despite the economic growth of recent years, the gap between rich and poor continues to widen;

We all know that most Canadian and Quebec women spend at least part of their life at home full time. Nearly half of them are not in the labour market and fewer than half of those who have preschool children have a paid full time job.

Canadian and Quebec parents seem to have the best of intentions about sharing the job of raising children. However, for better or for worse, the job of raising them still falls to women. Genetically speaking, there is nothing that says women should look after the home. However, in practice they are the ones to look after most of the domestic duties. That is why I am talking about women at home, which means in fact women at home raising children.

In Canada and Quebec, women at home work full time and even do overtime. Studies have shown they work between 41 and 60 hours a week, according to the number and age of their children.

Women at home are on duty 24 hours a day seven days a week. See if you can come with a more demanding job. This is our focus in the discussion on poverty. We have to start with the family. We also know that women at home work essentially in the home. Their husbands, children and other members of the family benefit most directly from their work.

However, others benefit as well. This is why paying women at home would stimulate the economy. They would be spending the money for essentials such as more appropriate food and more long lasting clothing.

Employers also take advantage of homemakers in other areas. Since women manage the home and take care of the other family members, it becomes easier for the husband to dedicate himself totally to a paid, full time job outside the home. I see the opposition before me today and the member for Repentigny smiling because I am talking about paying stay-at-home women. We are talking about families and children. I can say that, if women still stayed at home to look after their children, there would be less poverty.

Finally, if we take a more general perspective, homemakers are responsible for the future to the extent that they take care of the next generation. To carry on from one generation to the next, we need a dynamic and healthy population. What exact value must be placed on the work of these women who are on duty 24 hours a day to do everything in the home? According to some estimates, housework would amount to between 35% and 40% of Canada's GDP, which represents at least $136 billion in Canadian dollars. This is a significant amount, but stay-at-home women have no access to this money to help their children get out of poverty.

Unlike other workers in our society, homemakers do not receive a salary. And because they are not paid, they do not have annual leave, employment insurance and compensation for accidents, disabilities or illnesses. What is more serious in the long term is that they do not have a pension plan. Yet, like all other workers, homemakers eventually reach retirement age.

It is unacceptable that stay-at-home women have to face financial insecurity throughout their lives, even in their retirement years, after spending so many years working for the well-being of their families and of society as a whole.

Mothers often decide to go and work in mediocre conditions, and this is when we start talking about poverty. Women who have large families and who work for $3 or $4 an hour are not getting a decent salary. Some stay at home to raise children and do all the related chores. For those who work outside the home, it is extra work, since they must do household chores in addition to going to work, sometimes for $3, $4 or $5 per hour for washing floors.

Mothers belong to one of two groups: working mothers and mothers who stay at home. Even these expressions have a certain connotation. If some women are working mothers, what is a mother who stays home? If there are full time mothers, does it mean that those who have a career outside the home are only part time mothers?

Women at home, whether they are married or not, do not get any personal benefit from the Canada Pension Plan or the Quebec Pension Plan. Proposals to share pension credits between spouses are fine, but they do not take into account the value of the work performed by women at home, since the couple's total pension is not increased.

In 1970, the Royal Commission on the Status of Women concluded that women who stay at home produce as many goods and services as those who are gainfully employed, and that if they were paid, it could help children and eliminate poverty in certain regions of Quebec and Canada. We can re-examine our approach and create legislation that is, above all, fair to families, and gives parents the primary responsibility and the freedom to select the formula they judge is best for rearing their children.

The following are some reflections on the legal aspects. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that every individual has an equal right to protection and benefit under the law, without discrimination. The present day taxation legislation does not afford equal treatment to mothers. Some get special treatment while others do not, which is contrary to the democratic principles of equal opportunity.

If we look at the House Debates from 1983, the NDP member for Kamloops said he would continue to call upon the minister to reform the taxation system so as to treat all family situations equally. What we need is a system which takes into consideration all of the costs and efforts involved in raising children, regardless of marital status or income level, a system which gives women who choose to stay at home the same status and recognition as those who are in the work force.

In 1984, a national survey reported that 81% of Canadians were in favour of stay-at-home parents being included in the Canada and Quebec pension plans. But they still are not entitled to this pension.

I say to people, I say to members from every party in this House: Let us work together, let us try to find a solution to pay a salary to mothers who stay at home, to help children and their families escape poverty.

Nowadays when we talk about poverty, we talk a lot about programs, all kinds of federal and provincial programs. The problem with the Bloc's motion as it stands is that it suggests a parliamentary committee. I would prefer a royal commission that would study poverty and the possibility of paying a salary to women at home, mothers who stay at home to raise one or more children.

I want to thank everybody in the House today and I wish all the best to women. I also say to men who want to help us to write their MPs. They do not need a stamp. All they have to do is write a letter to their MP suggesting that a royal commission look into how to help families escape poverty. All they have to do is get in touch with their MP, regardless of his or her party, to get their message across. Even if it takes months, we have to keep trying. We must win for the sake of the men and women who stay at home to raise their children, and help them break the cycle of poverty.

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3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Guay Bloc Laurentides, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind the member for Abitibi that there is no such thing as a part-time mother or father. When we become a mother or a father it is for life. We are and always will be there no matter what.

I am a mother. I am a single mother. Is the member telling me all mothers should stay at home and should be paid to stay at home? Is the member telling us his government is willing to pay women who stay home to raise their children?

I would like the member for Abitibi to answer with an unequivocal yes.

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3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Guy St-Julien Liberal Abitibi, QC

Mr. Speaker, I had some difficulty hearing the hon. member's question. In the context of this Bloc motion on poverty, let me go back to the Quebec Liberal minister who said in 1994 that we should reform the whole of society, bring in a new guaranteed income supplement, abolish welfare and certain other programs, and take the money and invest it.

Coming back to the hon. member's question dealing with poverty, I remember that in October 1997, the Quebec government got a booby prize for its performance against poverty. This prize was awarded last October at a gala in Alma. I have this all here in my notes. A coalition of community groups from the whole area met in Alma and awarded the booby prize for the fight against poverty to the Quebec government and Lucien Bouchard, and that happened on his own turf. We should start by finding solutions at home.

They talked about world-wide poverty. Let us talk about poverty at the provincial level and about family and child poverty. Why did the Quebec government get this booby prize in Alma, in the riding of the member who took his chair out of the House? Think about that, and start by cleaning up your own backyard.

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3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Caroline St-Hilaire Bloc Longueuil, QC

Mr. Speaker, I listened very carefully to what the member opposite said just now. First of all, it is important that it be said, because there is a lot of confusion. I did not clearly understand where he was headed with the idea that women should go back to staying at home.

Like my colleague, the member for Laurentides, I find it offensive when people speak this way. I am expecting, I am going to have children, and I do not necessarily want to stay at home.

I will give the member a chance, however. Perhaps he meant the unseen work done by women. If he recognizes unseen work, I urge him officially to speak to the Minister of Finance about seniors benefits. But he is speaking about poverty. Does he agree with the idea of a committee, yes or no?

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3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Guy St-Julien Liberal Abitibi, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to reply to the Bloc Quebecois motion calling for a parliamentary committee.

This is incorrect. What is needed is a royal commission on poverty in Canada, on paying a salary to women who stay at home, not just a small parliamentary committee that will visit towns and cities designated by members, or a parliamentary committee that will do its work behind closed doors in the House of Commons and conduct hearings all over the place. They cannot cover all the towns and villages in Quebec, all the major regions.

I prefer a royal commission. I made it clear in my speech that there are two categories of mother: those who work and those who stay at home full time. These expressions are emotionally charged. If certain women are working mothers, what is a woman who does not work?

If there are full time mothers, that means that those who work outside the home are part time mothers only. There is nothing wrong with women working. It is an honour for a woman to work, but I can guarantee you that, rather than work for $7.40 an hour, 40 hours a week, many women would stay at home to raise their children. There would be less poverty. Right now, in Lac-Saint-Jean, Quebec, women are washing floors for $3, $4 or $5 an hour. What we want is a royal commission.

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3:50 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Guay Bloc Laurentides, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my colleague from Rosemont.

I am very pleased to take the floor today in support on my party's motion. If members read the motion carefully, they will realize that it raises fundamental questions.

As elected representatives, parliamentarians and democrats, it is our duty to deal very seriously with fundamental issues such as poverty, precisely because of the global phenomenon of the gap between rich and poor that is growing wider and wider despite the prosperity Canada and many countries are experiencing right now.

On the eve of a new millenium and in the context of market globalization, all these issues have become fundamental stakes in philosophical debates in our society and political life.

The issues and challenges which my colleague from Lac-Saint-Jean raised on April 20 deserve more serious consideration. That is why the Bloc Quebecois is pursuing this debate today by calling on members of all stripes to discuss and find different approaches to these problems and to the changes flowing from globalization, a process that sometimes goes much too fast and creates problems such as greater social disparity.

Since it is very difficult to foresee with any degree of accuracy the impact of globalization, the Bloc Quebecois agrees with the idea of the hon. member for Lac-Saint-Jean that we should strike a parliamentary committee.

It is important to have an in-depth discussion. The Bloc Quebecois thinks that this could help us better understand the impact of globalization.

The task my party and I are ready to undertake is not easy, but it is very exciting. Our whole society must rise to meet the challenge of globalization. As a responsible political party, the Bloc Quebecois has chosen to publicly launch this debate in the House of Commons.

Before going further, let us examine what globalization really means. How can it be defined? According to the International Monetary Fund, the IMF, which brings together 182 members states, globalization is:

—the increasing economic interdependency of all the countries of the world, due to a rise in the volume and variety of cross-border goods and services transactions and in the international monetary flows as well as the accelerated and widespread use of technology.

Why have so many governments opened up, willingly or not, to the world economy? Because world trade can benefit all the countries that take part in it.

Hence, the countries are changing their economic practices and specializing in areas where, comparatively, they have an edge. They also trade with other countries, which increases their standard of living compared to the situation they would find themselves in if they had to produce all the products they need.

That being said, world trade often has a tremendous impact of the redistribution of income within a country, so that there could be winners and losers. In order to try to alleviate the problems associated with globalization, it is important to implement compensation and adjustment programs.

This is why it was agreed that a multilateral investment agreement should be negotiated under the auspices of the OECD, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development.

Even though the Bloc Quebecois supports the principle behind the MAI, which is designed to clarify the rules in the area of investment, thereby promoting freer investments and freer trade in general, the agreement, in its present form, contains significant flaws that will have to be addressed if the government wants to have not only the support of the Bloc Quebecois, but also the support of Quebec.

As international cooperation critic for the Bloc Quebecois, I deplore the fact that the majority of countries, particularly developing countries, were excluded from the negotiations, which will end today, because they took place within the context of the OECD. It is unacceptable that only 29 member countries, the wealthiest in the world, can have their say and not the others.

The Bloc Quebecois would rather see these negotiations being pursued within the context of the World Trade Organization.

As of October 22, 1997, 132 countries were members of the WTO, and 34 countries and seven organizations had observer status. That means that a larger number of countries affected by such an agreement would have the opportunity to express their views about the agreement at the development stage.

It is obvious that the federal government, through the Minister for International Cooperation, seems more and more to enjoy thumbing its nose at developing countries and non- governmental organizations.

I want to warn the government opposite. The globalization of markets and the MAI will not solve every problem on the planet.

As a matter of fact, since the present government has taken office, we have been witnessing an important change not only in its attitude toward development assistance, but also in its attitude toward the role of the state with regard to world misery. The United Nations world report on human development says that inequalities are growing everywhere. While the poorest 20% of the population on the planet shared 2.3% of the world income in 1960, their share barely reaches 1.1% today.

Meanwhile, the wealthiest 20% of the population have become even wealthier. Their share went from 70% in 1960 to 86% today.

In Africa, incomes have dropped by 30% in just a few years. Some countries are becoming even poorer while others are slowly getting back on the road to economic growth. This slow change is very disturbing and is happening everywhere.

In 1989, there were 3.5 million people living in poverty in Canada. In 1995, this number went up to 5.1 million, a 45 % increase. During that same period, the number of poor children rose by 54 %, from 934,000 to 1,441,000 between 1989 and 1995.

In my riding alone, the Laurentides, soup kitchens, community groceries and other organizations of this type are mushrooming. I recently attended the opening of the Club des petits déjeuners, an organization that provides breakfasts for young children in schools in my riding, children who do not eat breakfast in the morning because their parents cannot afford it.

These associations are still necessary in my riding, which undoubtedly indicates an increasing level of poverty in my riding.

Considering these dismal statistics, how can we explain that Canada went from fifth to eleventh place among OECD countries for development aid expenses?

According to the United Nations, developed countries such as Canada should allocate at least 0.7 % of their gross national product to development aid. Since the fiscal year 1993-94, the federal government has literally axed the budget envelope for international assistance by taking more than $617 million out of it, which means that it allocates only 0.29 % of the gross national product to this purpose in 1997-98.

By acting in this way, Canada is evading its international responsibilities towards the poorest in the world and is doing nothing to reduce the gap between rich and poor countries.

The government could act otherwise, but it will not. It would rather spend millions of dollars, among other things, on buying new submarines.

In light of these facts, it is clear that, for the federal government, the problem is not one of means, but one of priorities.

The debate has now started and the federal government has the duty to seriously consider the Bloc Quebecois motion. This is for the well-being of the people of Quebec, of Canada and of the entire world.

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4 p.m.

Liberal

Guy St-Julien Liberal Abitibi, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have one comment and one question for the member for Laurentides.

For months now, the member has been traveling across her riding and the province of Quebec telling people she represents the Parti Quebecois and Quebeckers in Ottawa. Lately we saw several of them playing Santa Claus in Quebec, distributing cheques on behalf of the Quebec government. They did not give them to poor families, but to rich ones.

Does the member know why in October 1997, the Groupe de solidarité populaire du Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean gave the golden raspberry award for poverty to the government of Lucien Bouchard for being the one institution which had contributed the most to increasing poverty among Quebeckers?

Earlier I was listening to the member speak about globalization and all the other countries in the world. Could the hon. member tell me right now whether a royal commission on poverty or on remuneration for homemakers would not be better than a parliamentary committee operating behind closed doors?

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4 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Guay Bloc Laurentides, QC

Mr. Speaker, those who have nothing to say say stupid things. If the federal government had not cut transfer payments to the provinces so drastically, the provinces might not have so many problems.

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4 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

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4 p.m.

Bloc

Benoît Sauvageau Bloc Repentigny, QC

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. If the member for Abitibi is a conscientious and honest man, he should stand up and repeat the derogatory comments he made to my colleague from Laurentides.

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4 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)

This is not a point of order. The member for Laurentides.

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4 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Guay Bloc Laurentides, QC

Mr. Speaker, if you could ask him to be quiet and listen, it would be interesting, because I do not think he even knows the difference between a royal commission and a parliamentary committee.

So, I am talking about international aid because it is important for a developed country like Canada to help on the international scene. But we still see poverty in our ridings. If the government took the money in the employment insurance fund—there will soon be $20 billion—and transferred it to the provinces, we would solve our problems at home.

I even heard the member for Abitibi—and I am amazed that we have such parliamentarians—say that social assistance had to be cut. Really. It is women with children who are suffering for the most part and who receive social assistance. Yes, programs must be set up for them and they must return to the labour market. He however is talking about women remaining at home and being paid to do so. Oh, boy. That makes no sense.

I think the members of the Liberal Party should look at the motion today, support it and vote with us in favour of a parliamentary committee.