Debates of May 13th, 1998

Hepatitis C

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, the hon. Leader of the Opposition has the floor.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the backbenchers do not want two tiers of victims based on when someone was infected. That is precisely the same point that Premier Harris made in his unanswered letter to the Prime Minister.

I ask the health minister the question that Ontario is bound to ask him tomorrow. Does he still believe it is fair to treat someone infected on December 31, 1985 differently than someone infected on January 1, 1986?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, one of the reasons it is important for us to find out tomorrow what provincial positions are is that the federal government cannot resolve this issue by itself. It is the provinces which deliver the services. The hon. leader knows that.

It is very odd to listen to the leader of the Reform Party complaining about a two-tier approach to health care when he and his party are the people who call the Canada Health Act an outdated piece of legislation and who want to introduce two-tier medicine in this country.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, about an hour ago I talked with Jeremy Beaty of the Hepatitis C Society. The victims are meeting with the health ministers tomorrow. Jeremy asked that he not just have a quick little audience and then be ushered out. He wanted, at the end of their presentation, to have a dialogue with the health ministers. He wants to hear what they have to say.

Will our health minister give Jeremy the opportunity to have a dialogue, an interchange?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I sent Mr. Beaty a copy of my letter to provincial and territorial ministers urging them to join me in receiving representatives of the Hepatitis C Society and, indeed, we added other societies as well who are interested in the subject so we can hear them.

The member and the House can be assured that as far as we are concerned those representatives will be accorded the respect that they are due.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Beaty will notice that there was not an answer to my question.

They have a second request. Although they will be ushered out and the ministers will not be able to listen to them all, at the end of the deliberations they want to come back to hear the solution. They want to have these health ministers look them in the eye and tell them what they are going to do for them.

Will Jeremy Beaty and the other victims get a chance to look these ministers in the eye when they have their solution?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we have written to ministers urging them to join us in welcoming representatives of the Hepatitis C Society and other associations.

I should say that the member ought not to jump to the conclusion that there is going to be a resolution tomorrow. Indeed, the provinces may take a very different position and it may not be possible to have a consensus tomorrow. We will do the best we can.

The member should bear in mind that this depends as much on what the provincial positions are as it does on what the federal position is.

Nuclear Testing

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, by detonating five nuclear bombs one after the other, India has challenged international public opinion.

It has also rekindled the already considerable tension with Pakistan, as well as with China. And all this has taken place in an area of the globe where the political situation is far from stable, given the situation that also exists in Indonesia and Afghanistan in particular.

Will Canada, which until now has been content to have the Prime Minister announce timid measures against India, review its position and implement real political and economic sanctions, as the United States is doing?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have already taken concrete action. We have withdrawn our high commissioner, suspended all contact with India, and banned all military exports. We are considering and taking decisions regarding other measures, following active consultation with our allies.

We are taking concrete action because we are in complete disagreement with what India is doing.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the past, Canada has placed substantial limitations on trade with certain countries, in order to put pressure on them. I am thinking of South Africa in particular.

If India persists in defying international public opinion, does the government plan to take more substantial action against this country, such as reviewing the work of the Export Development Corporation?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat that we are actively considering additional but sensible measures. Our approach is to work together with our allies because, as I said, we are in complete disagreement with India's nuclear activities.

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

Canada's attitude toward the use of nuclear testing as an instrument of intimidation in a regional conflict is pretty weak, considering the important issues raised by the irresponsible attitude of the Indian government.

Above and beyond the intentions of the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Prime Minister to raise the question at the G-8 summit, does Canada intend to show leadership in this conflict by immediately calling for a meeting of the UN Security Council?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the government intends to do something equally important, which is to discuss the situation with the leaders of the European Union, as well as with the other G-7 leaders. These are very significant concrete actions.

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we shall see whether the government is interested in very concrete actions.

Is Canada giving thought to officially opposing India's candidacy for a seat on the UN Security Council, since that country is demanding a permanent seat as part of the institutional reform currently underway at the UN?

[Ted McWhinney, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as the acting prime minister has indicated, this matter will be before the G-8 countries. It is at that stage that measures, including candidacy for seats for the security council, can be discussed.

I might remind the hon. member that the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade of the House has been engaged in a useful study on nuclear and general disarmament and we await anxiously the report of that committee.

Hepatitis C

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, in the matter of hepatitis C, the meeting of the health ministers has yet to begin, but the government is already talking about a plan B, which does not involve compensation, another plan B destined to fail.

The government must now concentrate on plan A: compensation for all victims.

Is the federal government prepared to pay out enough to compensate all victims?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I will be meeting my counterparts tomorrow and I hope that all the health ministers will be at the table. Tomorrow we will determine whether we can settle the matter with a new consensus.

Today, however, what matters is that we are keeping an open mind and that we are prepared to work with our partners in Canada's health care system. I will be bringing this objective to the table with me tomorrow.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, crafting a fair compensation package demands leadership from the federal government. Dividing blood injured Canadians into two classes of victims reflects a failure of leadership.

Victims will not accept two-tier compensation. Canadians will not accept two-tier compensation.

Will the health minister categorically reject here and now all plans for two-tier compensation?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think it is useful to speculate on the outcome of tomorrow's meeting.

I also think it is important to bear in mind that the solution to this issue must come not just from the federal government, but from all governments, the provincial governments who deliver health services, the provincial governments who are responsible for administering health programs in the provinces. To be sure, under the leadership of the Prime Minister, we have brought them to the table so far, but the solution must be found in the provinces as well as in the federal government.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the same blood system infected people before and after 1986, but the government's policy toward the victims is to divide and discriminate.

Now we hear that the minister may offer a two-tier package that will leave the provinces with the ongoing cost of assisting hep C victims.

Will the minister do the right thing and go into the meeting with an open mind? Will he commit to go into the meeting tomorrow to see how all the victims can be compensated and not whether all the victims will be treated equally?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I will, of course, approach the meeting with an open mind. That is the way I have approached the subject from the outset.

I also want to tell the hon. member that this is the party that is responsible for introducing medicare in Canada. This is the party that believes strongly in one tier of treatment for those who are ill and no proposal we make or support at any time will depart from the principle of one tier of treatment for those who are ill.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, God bless those who got hep C before 1986 if he went in with an open mind that way.

By slashing health care transfers by billions of dollars since 1994 the government has jeopardized provincial ability to meet the health care needs of not just hep C victims, but all Canadians.

Some provinces have realized that to compensate some victims and not others is wrong and they are willing to put more money on the table.

Will the government have the courage to do the same when it goes into that meeting tomorrow?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, what we have managed to do, remarkably, is to make our way through the economic ruins left by the last government to restore fiscal balance and at the same time maintain cash transfers to the provinces at a floor of $12.5 billion a year. That is a remarkable achievement. We will bring that kind of skill and commitment to this issue as well.

[Reed Elley, Reform, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister says that this file is closed. It is not and it will not be closed until we get fair compensation for all victims.

I remind the minister of his promise to the mother of one such child in my riding. On March 8 he told Debbie Duncan her son would be compensated. He said “Hang in there and we'll help you to take care of your son”.

Did the minister just say this to get her off his back or will he keep his word tomorrow?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, over the last 10 months we have overcome remarkable provincial resistance. We have overcome ingrained provincial refusals to talk about these issues. We finally got them through a series of several meetings to the point where together we offered compensation to a group that was infected at a time when those responsible could have prevented those infections.

We will be sitting down again tomorrow to look at outstanding issues that have arisen in recent weeks. I can assure the hon. member we shall bring to the process tomorrow the commitment we have shown as a government throughout to do the best we can in these difficult circumstances.