House of Commons Hansard #15 of the 36th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was treaty.

Topics

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Reform

Myron Thompson Reform Wild Rose, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have an opportunity to speak just before the time allocation is finished. What a shame it is that they moved closure on this debate and we will not hear any more wise words.

Over the last year and a half I had the opportunity to go into many of the reserves with grassroots people. I am speaking on behalf of a lot of seniors, elders who live on the reserves and who have spoken wisely and have given me a lot of insight. I think of people such as Roy Littlechief, Floyd Minifingers and Johnny Chief Moon, to name just a few, who have said the entire problem boils down to one thing.

In their view the problem is that for over 130 years the entire aboriginal community was operated out of this place by federal governments of the past. At no time could it ever be worse than it is now. There has been an absolute absence of accountability on the reserves. Not all of them. I want to make it absolutely clear that I have seen some very effective reserves, some good ones. I only wish that those who are doing so well could get the message out to the hundreds I have seen not doing very well.

These people were talking about the various types of problems that the member from the NDP refused to address because he is sick and tired of hearing about the grief they see in the provinces. I wish hon. members from the NDP and Liberals would have come to Burnt Hill in Winnipeg when they had the final meeting and heard from the people who were talking from their hearts, the ones who are living in abject poverty.

I would have liked to have seen them visit with a mother and father who lost a three year old girl just weeks before. I went into their home, into a soup hole. They had no place else to discharge water. They did not have a sewage system so they asked for one.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The hon. member for Wild Rose, whom I respect greatly, indicated that my colleague from the NDP did not want to hear about the devastation and concerns on our reserves. That is the furthest thing from the truth.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Reform

Darrel Stinson Reform Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Well, he didn't go out to the meeting about it, did he?

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I am sorry but I think we are getting into debate rather than a point of order.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Reform

Myron Thompson Reform Wild Rose, AB

At any rate, Mr. Speaker, no one from any party went to any of the several meetings, and I know they were all invited.

People like Leona Freed has travelled around the country. Literally hundreds of others have done their best to reach the grassroots people, those who do not have automobiles, those who cannot afford a plane or bus ticket, and those who are hitchhiking, trying to survive on the reserves. That is the people they are addressing. They are saying that when it comes to self-government and the Nisga'a agreement they want to be shown that all the people will benefit.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:05 p.m.

Liberal

David Iftody Liberal Provencher, MB

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I certainly wish to allow the member to continue, but on a technical point with reference to his debate the member has raised with me on several occasions, both inside and outside the House, questions about people having difficulties. I have asked for a letter in writing from the member on these matters and I have yet to receive it.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

This does not sound like a point of order. It sounds like a matter for debate.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:10 p.m.

Reform

Myron Thompson Reform Wild Rose, AB

Mr. Speaker, it sounds to me like it is another effort on the part of both parties to put people like me down. They do not want to hear what life is actually like on so many of the reserves. I know that many of the people I have talked to are suffering to a great extent.

People are asking that these types of agreements address three things. They want accountability. These are the elders. I am not talking about a bunch of young whipper-snappers. I am talking about the elders, the people who have the wisdom. They want democracy and they want equality.

The auditor general has pointed that out six years in a row. Something has to be done about the accountability not only on the reserves, but in the House. We are accountable to the taxpayers of Canada and the chiefs and councils on the reserves must be accountable to their people. With what I have seen with my own eyes on the reserves, these kind of agreements are not going to address the problem.

Today one fellow from Alberta commented to me, “What about the grassroots? The money will be given to a few. How do we know that we all will be able to share?” This is the Nisga'a people. “How do we know that we will all be able to share on an equitable basis?” No property rights, no nothing. They ask me “How do we know that we are going to be able to live a decent life? Are we going to be at the hands of the council and their families? Will it be nepotism? Are we going to go through the whole problem again?”

In my riding the Stoney reserve has had a three year investigation going on. Up to 43 possible charges are to be laid concerning mismanagement and not looking after the best interests of the people who are involved.

All members from every party in this place had the opportunity to go out there and hear the word. However, they cannot pull themselves out of the chambers to go to these reserves. They like to go to the council chambers. Maybe they would go to the chief's house, but they would not get down in the dirt with the grassroots people. They would rather go to the highfaluting elite people and say “We will look after you”. They are doing a poor job of it.

The member from wherever he is over there does not have any brains. All he can do is laugh. He has no comments. It is a shame he is a representative. If those members are going to say something, I wait excitedly for something valuable to come out of their mouths. I know it will never happen with that member, not in 100 years.

I encourage all hon. members. For six years the report from the auditor general has been looked at. What is the matter? Can they not read? Do they not understand? The auditor general is saying most passionately that there is no accountability in this whole area and it has to be addressed. If the government is going to enter into agreements like this, then for Pete's sake, build it in. There it is. I have read it.

I want to refer to one clause in here on page 113, the fisheries. I want to read the clause for my friends from the NDP in particular: “In the event of inconsistency or conflict between a Nisga'a law made under paragraph 69 or 70 and a federal or provincial law, the Nisga'a law will prevail”.

It says that several times in here. I dare these people to indicate that does not mean it will override the laws of the federal government or the provincial government.

I have one final comment. It is really too bad that the member across the way who likes to laugh so much does not go to the reserves and see the sick poverty, the third world conditions. Let us see if he would like to laugh then.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

It being 6.15 p.m., pursuant to order made earlier this day, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the second reading stage of the bill now before the House.

The question is on the amendment to the amendment. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment to the amendment?

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those in favour of the amendment to the amendment will please say yea.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

Nisga'A Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

6:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the amendment to the amendment, which was negatived on the following division:

Division No. 48Government Orders

6:45 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I declare the amendment to the amendment lost.

The next question is on the amendment. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment?

Division No. 48Government Orders

6:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Division No. 48Government Orders

6:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Division No. 48Government Orders

6:45 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those in favour of the amendment will please say yea.

Division No. 48Government Orders

6:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Division No. 48Government Orders

6:45 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

Division No. 48Government Orders

6:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Division No. 48Government Orders

6:45 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

(The House divided on the amendment, which was negatived on the following division:)