Debates of Nov. 15th, 1999

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution Act

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

I am sure the member for Hamilton West has a withdrawal to make.

[Stan Keyes, Liberal, Hamilton West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I withdraw the comment to go on to say how frustrated I was and why I had to say that. I cannot let this go by.

When the hon. member got up and talked about the abuse of children, I have never heard such poppycock from one member of parliament in a long time, and this member gets up on a regular basis. So I had to do a little research. Let us find out what the facts are for this member who might be up making speeches and ripping up paper, but only does it because he has to make, for political purposes as he puts it, a little show for his constituents.

How many people are we talking about? We are talking about 1,500 employees. How much money are we talking about from the Government of Canada for 1,500 people? We are talking about a $111 million package for 1,500 people. What does that mean? It means that up to 500 people will be retained by the privatized company to work in the Prince Mine, leaving 1,000 people. Of those, 340 people will be eligible for a generous retirement package of $24,000 a year until they turn age 65. I guess the member forgot about that part of the child abuse he spoke of. The remaining 650 people will receive severance and training allowances for which they will receive four weeks per year service or some $70,000 per person. Is this abuse? It is a total package of $111 million for 1,500 people.

Has the hon. member ever seen in the private sector such a generous severance agreement with any employees as that one? Can he give me one example in his riding or anywhere else in the country?

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have heard pathetic interventions in the past. I have heard people make pathetic interventions because they were afraid of the truth. The hon. member who just spoke obviously flunked economics 101 if in fact he ever went to college. That is obvious—

[An hon. member]

Sit down.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

I won't sit down. The Liberals can yell at me to sit down but they are stuck with me for the next two minutes at least. The hon. member for Hamilton West talked about the loss of 1,500 jobs. If he had studied any economics he would know that for every one job of this nature there are at least three other jobs lost as well.

[An hon. member]

The private sector is taking over the line.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Which private sector? First of all let us understand what we are talking about here. There is a 30% level of unemployment today. My hon. friend is hoping that people will leave Cape Breton in droves. His solution is to drive people off the island. His solution is to tell them to seek their fortunes in Toronto. That is where the action is. He wants them to go to Hamilton or central Canada. I will tell my hon. friend that not everybody wants to go to Hamilton or central Ontario.

[Stan Keyes, Liberal, Hamilton West, ON]

It is a beautiful city.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

He finds that shocking. He should be as aware as some of his Liberal colleagues that there are other parts to Canada than central Canada.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a quick question and a compliment for the hon. member on his speech, on his fire and enthusiasm. He is a true westerner, I take it. It was well done.

However, there is a couple of questions that bother me. I noticed that he never addressed anything in the package with regard to the $70,000 payoff for one individual, or about $30,000 after taxes so it is really insignificant. It appears that the whole package is setting up a very low minimal welfare state in the Cape Breton area.

Would the member agree that is what this is doing? Is his solution to create a larger welfare package, or are we genuinely talking about investments to create the jobs he is talking about that will keep this industry booming? What is he suggesting as a solution?

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Wild Rose for his question. I do not think he was listening carefully to my speech or perhaps he got a little waylaid. Maybe they disturbed him from across the way.

I did lay out that there is no shortage of progressive ideas in terms of what the economy of Cape Breton can be. I happened to be part of the process in Cape Breton some months ago where countless individuals from all walks of life laid out a whole series, a whole agenda of what they felt was very viable in terms of a new economy for Cape Breton, but it required some investment.

My hon. friend knows education. It is probably the best investment we could make. They need more investment at the University College of Cape Breton to allow local folks access to that institution to enable them to develop the skills for these new enterprises.

We are not talking about handouts being acceptable. We are not talking about any form of revised welfare. We are talking about providing the necessary infrastructure so the men and women of Cape Breton can develop the dynamic economy they know they can develop with the proper resources.

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I had the opportunity to meet with representatives of Devco a few months back. I was thus able to become familiar with this extremely unfortunate issue. I would like to make a comment and then ask the member for Kamloops, Thompson and Highland Valleys to respond.

The people I met with told me clearly that the miners who are now losing their jobs are the same ones that the government encouraged, a number of years ago, to settle with their families and make a career with Devco. These people are now being abandoned.

They are being abandoned at a time when they are extremely unlikely to be able to find a new job in the region. They are being abandoned at a time when they are not yet entitled to a pension but very nearly so. They are being abandoned along with their families, their children. They are being abandoned in a region that is not one of the richest regions, quite the contrary. They are being abandoned and the government is turning a blind eye.

As I see it, this is irresponsible, and I would like to hear what the member for Kamloops, Thompson and Highland Valleys thinks.

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be very short. I listened with interest to my colleague's intervention. I think it was a very thoughtful intervention and I agree with him 100%.

[John Duncan, Reform, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as everyone is well aware at this point, we are talking about Bill C-11, the Cape Breton Development Corporation divestiture authorization and dissolution act.

Before I go into any specifics about the act I thought I would take this opportunity to talk about some personal and family history. One might say I have coal dust in my veins since it was the coal mines that brought my grandfather to Canada. Without coal I would not be standing before the House today. It is amazing how one can step back into history through people who are not long gone.

My grandfather was born in 1866 and by 1880, at the age of 14, he was working in a coal mine in Scotland. Later he operated a coal mine in China until the Boxer Rebellion at the turn of the century. He was on the docks in Shanghai when Europeans were being killed.

After returning to Scotland from China my grandfather, James, along with his two brothers, Ninian and Tom, came to North America to work in the coal mines of West Virginia. The three brothers continued to work together and moved to British Columbia where they worked in the coal mines. My grandfather worked at the Coal Creek mine near Fernie, British Columbia.

On May 22, 1902, there were 128 miners killed in the Coal Creek disaster. My grandfather was on the rescue team after this mine disaster and this traumatising event certainly affected him for the rest of his days.

I grew up in the coal mining town of Natal close to the B.C.-Alberta border in the Rocky Mountains adjacent to the slag piles and the coke ovens, adjacent to what was then the Trans-Canada Highway that went through the Crow's Nest Pass. It has since been moved from Crow's Nest to Rogers Pass.

We left there in 1955 because the government decided that Michel, Natal and Middletown should not be there. It bulldozed Michel, Natal and Middletown and relocated the communities to Sparwood, essentially because it was the entryway to B.C. on the Trans-Canada Highway. The three towns were bulldozed because of the government's concern for optics. This was the entry to British Columbia and on many days cars had to turn their headlights on because of the coal dust, and our house was white. People had a lot of pride in their community. There are a lot of people who still have strong emotional ties to these communities that are no longer there.

I understand the strong emotional attachments and the strong affinity to the coal mining industry expressed by the people of Cape Breton and Nova Scotia. I have been to Glace Bay, Sydney, Pictou County, the site of the Westray mine and the memorial. We cannot just wash this all away. Coal is in their veins.

Bill C-11 authorizes the winding up of Devco, one of the most politicized and embarrassing public taxpayer funded exercises seen in Canada. In a misguided and paternalistic way governments in Canada for the last 30 years, and in fact for the last 70 years when one considers the predecessors to Devco, have spent taxpayer dollars on the coal mining business in the maritimes.

Some of the cynical among us might say that this money was to buy votes. I would prefer to think it was just wrong-headed thinking, but then I am cynical.

In any event, it has created an economy that is not free and balanced by natural market forces. Now that the government is pulling the plug, we have a painful and awkward situation for which there is no easy solution.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I understand that if you were to seek it you would find unanimous consent for the House to revert to Statements by Ministers. This would permit the hon. Minister of Labour to make a brief announcement regarding the British Columbian ports dispute.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Is there unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

West Coast Ports

[Claudette Bradshaw, Liberal, Minister of Labour]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to announce that both parties involved in the British Columbian ports dispute have accepted a proposal for settlement. The BCMEA just informed me that the lockout will be lifted as of 4.30 p.m. Vancouver time today.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Claudette Bradshaw, Liberal, Moncton, NB]

The union has agreed to go back to work also today. This means that activities will resume at British Columbian ports.

I congratulate the parties. It has always been our view that a negotiated settlement is in the best interest of the parties and the Canadian economy.

I would like to table the letters I have received from the BCMEA and from the International Longshoremen's & Warehousemen's Union of Canada.

[Dale Johnston, Reform, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to see that the port will be open within a couple of hours. I am not all that pleased, though, that it has taken more than a week for the government to act on this matter. The minister will know that I wrote to her last Monday asking her to do exactly what has taken place now but to do it in a more timely fashion.

This is an incident that has cost not only millions of dollars a day to the Canadian economy. It has also cost us as far as being a reliable port is concerned. Our reputation as a reliable shipper and receiver of goods is badly damaged. This will be a very difficult hit on the economy of British Columbia.

I am very pleased to see that it is over without any more agony than we had to go through, but I would implore the minister to look at a situation being put in place that could alleviate all this suffering, something we could work on before job action of this type has to be taken. I would be pleased to talk to her about that.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I note that most of us are very pleased with the turn of events, but not necessarily for the same reasons.

I had the same letters the minister did, because we have been following the matter right from the start. In fact, we have been looking into this matter all weekend. I was in contact with representatives of the union.

I am very pleased to see that, at last, an agreement has been negotiated between the union and the employers, and this has been done democratically and not been forced upon them through back to work legislation.

Hon. members are aware that my party is always opposed to back to work legislation, because we have always favoured negotiation over force. This is also the best solution because, when all is said and done, both sides work better and get along better as a result.

I am pleased to take the floor today to congratulate both the union side, with whom I have spoken several times today, and the management side.

At last the workers will be able to get back to their jobs at the Port of Vancouver, and the work can continue normally. I congratulate them and I trust that, should there be another such conflict in Canada, we will be wise enough to let the parties settle it among themselves. I realize that a week can be costly, but a week is not all that long for negotiating such an important agreement.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the New Democratic Party I want to say how very pleased we are that through the hard work and dedication of the principals involved the two parties have seen fit to end the lockout. The International Longshore and Warehouse Union of Canada and the B.C. Marine Employers Association have seen fit to end this lockout in a sensible way.

I want to particularly compliment the Minister of Labour, her staff and her mediators for their extra effort and hard work. I know there were some all night bargaining sessions. It is rare to find that kind of dedication and commitment. It really helped to bring this issue to a speedy resolution.

The progress today helps us preclude the bizarre spectre of having to order people back to work in the case of a lockout. We have to remember that this is a lockout, not a strike. Frankly, the employers had the ability to save all those millions of dollars that they lost if they just took the padlocks off the gates. At least we do not have to go down the road of the bizarre, perverse situation of ordering locked out workers back to work. We are very relieved on this side.

Congratulations to all concerned. I understand that by 4.30 p.m. product will be moving through the docks of Vancouver and we can all go to bed at a normal hour tonight.

[Norman E. Doyle, Progressive Conservative, St. John's East, NL]

Mr. Speaker, we are delighted that legislation has not been required and that the two sides are again back to work and work is continuing.

The west coast ports have suffered grievous damage as it is. Canadian industry as a result of what has happened over the last short while has once again got a black eye with its overseas customers.

In the House we are faced with emergency legislation very often. We are told that we have a crisis and that we have to bring in legislation to prevent an economic catastrophe. In cases where we have such catastrophes, where the national interest is at stake, there has to be a better way of settling these issues. People have the right to strike and they should not have that right taken away all that lightly. If and when it is deemed to be in the public interest to deny a group of workers the right to strike, they should be offered some sort of arbitration process in lieu of having that right taken away.

Here we have an industry with a very long history of strikes and lockouts that is capable of having a stranglehold on the economy. We are pleased that the strike is not going ahead but there has to be a better way to deal with these issues.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I appreciate the comments from the last speaker with regard to the history of the ongoing difficulty in what is happening on the west coast.

I would like to seek unanimous consent to propose a motion that we discuss bringing in legislation to make certain that this port not be allowed to disrupt our essential economy at this point in time. It is time to discuss it now and put an end to it.