House of Commons Hansard #184 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was budget.

Topics

The BudgetGovernment Orders

1:05 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Greg Thompson Progressive Conservative Charlotte, NB

Mr. Speaker, I apologize to Mark Twain.

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1:05 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The hon. member will have to do more than apologize to Mark Twain. He is going to have to apologize to me and to the House, and he is going to have to withdraw those words. I would ask him to do so at once.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

1:10 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Greg Thompson Progressive Conservative Charlotte, NB

Mr. Speaker, it is cold outside today and I do not want to sit outside, so I do apologize for that unkindly word.

I think Diane Francis can say it better than most of us in this House. In an article in yesterday's Financial Post she calls it “fiscal fairy tales”. Is that better, Mr. Speaker? She wrote, “the minister is a master at devising fiscal fairy tales”. This is his sixth in a row, fiscal fairy tale.

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1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Murray Calder Liberal Dufferin—Peel—Wellington—Grey, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will try to keep it concise.

I listened to both of the members' speeches and found them quite humourous.

The hon. member is quoting newspaper articles and I want to quote one. I have heard him mention how well this individual does his job. It is a quote by the premier of Alberta. The premier of Alberta says that the Minister of Finance's Liberal budget is a blueprint for the type of policies Tories and Reformers should embrace if they merge into a new party. He also said that the Minister of Finance would deliver good government to Canadians if he became prime minister. He also said that he was “very happy with the Liberals' decision in Tuesday's federal budget to pump $11.5 billion into provincial health care coffers”.

I would like to hear what the hon. member across the way has to say about Ralph Klein's comments. Is he wrong?

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1:10 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Greg Thompson Progressive Conservative Charlotte, NB

Mr. Speaker, we know it would be on very rare occasions that a Conservative premier would be wrong. The problem with Ralph of course is that he succumbs to the beating the finance minister inflicts on him with his big chequebook. I am sure Ralph mentioned this under great duress because there would be no other way that he would say that. The minister is famous for doing that.

The New Brunswick finance minister was not quite that complimentary. In fact, yesterday the New Brunswick finance minister said just the opposite. At least a few of them, even though they may be political pals, do have the strength from time to time to speak the truth, not to say that Ralph would speak anything but the truth.

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1:10 p.m.

Reform

Dick Harris Reform Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Speaker, we have an old family fight going on over here and I thought maybe I could insert some rationale into it.

I am sure that Premier Klein and Premier Harris are smart enough to know that the last thing they should be saying is “Take your money, I don't want it. Get out of my sight”. No. They are going to placate this government. They are going to take the money and at the same time continue their fight and struggle to defeat this government in the next election.

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1:10 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Greg Thompson Progressive Conservative Charlotte, NB

Mr. Speaker, that was an intelligent intervention and of course it had to come from this side of the House.

Sometimes in this business we have to eat our own words. I would love to see the finance minister do that. Last week when the Prime Minister was out of the country, he was talking about how supportive he was when the prime minister of the day, Brian Mulroney, brought in the GST and why he had to do it. What goes on in the minds of some politicians one never knows, but I think the hon. member is absolutely right. This is a man who controls the nation's finances, he and the Prime Minister. It is not too often that we will get a premier going on the attack, especially when he is waiting for some of those health care dollars that were taken away from his province.

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1:10 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Speller Liberal Haldimand—Norfolk—Brant, ON

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member was talking about numbers earlier.

I know the hon. member was in this House up until 1993. I am wondering if he could tell me what the unemployment numbers were at that time. If I remember correctly it was 11.5%. Today it is 7.8%. Could the hon. member tell us what the budget deficit was at that time? I am sure he will remember that it was at $42 billion a year. Could he also tell us what the budget deficit is today?

The hon. member talks about numbers but those are the things we had to deal with before we brought in this budget. This budget is our attempt to try to deal with those dramatic numbers.

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1:15 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Greg Thompson Progressive Conservative Charlotte, NB

Mr. Speaker, I have an institutional memory. I think that sometimes comes in handy in this place. The member for Fredericton and I had a little discussion on the very topic of the numbers of unemployment last night in Fredericton in terms of New Brunswick's unemployment. I wish the rate of unemployment in my home province and Atlantic Canada were as low as the national average. I do not disagree with that because the economy as we know is very cyclical. What goes up comes down sometimes.

The hon. member is right, the unemployment rate was too high when we left office. Prior to that it was lower. We get to the bottom of the cycle as well in terms of a low number of unemployed. But back in New Brunswick this very day it is very high. It is very high in Atlantic Canada. I wish that we were experiencing the prosperity of southern Ontario. Maybe some day we will, but it will need more attention by this government to achieve those low numbers.

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1:15 p.m.

Liberal

George Proud Liberal Hillsborough, PE

Mr. Speaker, I am sharing my time with the member for Waterloo—Wellington.

This is a very intense debate and I am very honoured to enter into it and to offer my congratulations to the government on what I consider to be another tremendous budget.

This budget offers all Canadians a high standard of living and again makes Canada a better place in which to live.

Our obligations as members of Canada's parliament are to ensure that Canadians receive what they put into their country and to ensure that we give Canadians the support they need to build a strong and prosperous nation.

Our strategy of building a stronger and more prosperous Canada takes action on three fronts, maintaining sound economic and financial management, investing in key economic and social priorities, and providing tax relief and improving tax fairness.

These fronts mesh together to improve Canada's standard of living and quality of life. I would like to take a look at each of these three fronts to see how they affect Canada as a nation but Prince Edward Island also.

If one looks at the present fiscal situation it is apparent that we as Canadians are living in a very unique time, a time in which economic and financial management of the nation is once again a possibility, a time in which the light at the end of the tunnel is a reality.

The 1998-99 fiscal year is the second consecutive year in which the budget has been deficit free. The last time this occurred was almost half a century ago. Program spending as a share of GDP will decline from 12.6% to 12% in 2000-01. This also is the lowest in almost 50 years.

The federal government will post a financial surplus for the third consecutive year, the only G-7 country to do so.

The financial position of the territories and the provinces has also improved. The maintenance of a sound economy is something to be very proud of, something this Liberal government has done in a timely and efficient manner, in a manner of effective and responsible government.

This government has not forgotten the fundamental principle that has guided Canada through the 20th century, the fundamental principle of fairness and social responsibility. This is a government that recognizes the importance of health care, a government that recognizes the burdens that taxes place on us, a government that recognizes the importance of investing in knowledge and innovation so that we are fortified as we enter the new millennium.

This budget is proof that our government has recognized the importance of knowledge and the development of a dynamic business sector and workforce. An innovative and dynamic business sector and workforce are essential for success in today's knowledge based economy and we have recognized this through increased support to the Canadian opportunities strategy. This strategy supports employment through creation, dissemination and commercialization of Canadian knowledge.

Economic and social priorities seem to concentrate on one entity, employment. Creating permanent and prosperous jobs for Canadians is a key economic and social priority and this is no surprise. Without a strong economy we do not have a strong society and vice versa. We must invest in both sides of this relationship. That is what our government has done. We have given our economy a boost as well as giving Canadians a boost.

It does little good for us to educate Canadians, give them the life investments they need and not supply them with the proper innovative environments to put these skills to work. To stimulate the creation of jobs in our workforce through the careless allocation of money is not a solution. What good government must do is create an environment where innovation and the promotion of knowledge can flourish. Investments in knowledge and innovation are key to improving our productivity performance and increasing our standard of living.

This in turn creates a highly trained workforce that can stand the test of the new millennium. This is what our government is doing when it builds on the existing Canadian opportunities strategy.

Our government is taking measures to create knowledge, creating knowledge through increased funding for the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council and for the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council for advanced research in graduate studies.

We have also made money available to the National Research Council to invest in leading edge equipment. This money will be available this year and for the next three years. Without cutting edge equipment, our national research will suffer and in turn affect employment. Jobs depend on research.

Not only must we take measures to create knowledge but we must also disseminate this knowledge so Canadians can use it. The Internet and its ability to transfer information to vast numbers makes it a natural choice for keeping Canadians abreast of up to the minute information.

This government plans to make information and knowledge infrastructure accessible to all Canadians by the year 2000. This will make Canada the most connected country in the world.

This budget will make for the investment of $60 million over three years to establish a smart community demonstration project in each province and territory. These projects use information and communication technology to support economic development and enrich community life. Several aspects of society will be fortified with speedy information channels for sharing and mass dissemination of valuable knowledge.

These initiatives support innovation by creating a network where industry can reach out to potential partners, where small business can network with large business and where students can learn more about business innovation in Canada.

Not only must we help stimulate ideas and innovation, we must also connect ideas with our markets. Innovation is the driving force behind increased productivity and improved standards of living. It is the commercialization of innovation and knowledge that results in the creation of new products, new markets and new processes that will lead to economic growth and the generation of job opportunities.

This budget supports the commercialization of knowledge and innovation. Our government designates money for the investment in partnerships with the private sector to help firms commercialize new technology. That is where research and investment comes to the main street of Canada, where our commitment to the creation of economic stability through innovation meets the average Canadian. This is where investment in knowledge bears its fruit.

This budget also supports the development of innovative projects that support alternate energy development. For example, in my home province of Prince Edward Island our government is continuing to provide funding for the Atlantic wind test site. This site contributes to the development of wind energy technology and illustrates this government's commitment to the diversification of the Atlantic economy.

Now to deal with health care. This is very important to Canadians and to this government. There is $11.5 billion specifically for health care over the next five years. This is a lot of money. As a matter of fact, it is the largest single new investment this government has made.

For my province of Prince Edward Island this government has committed an estimated $51 million over the next five years, an average of over $10 million a year. This amount is substantial. It will clearly have positive effects for the people of my riding and the people of my province.

This government is also investing in health information systems and health research. Information systems improvements will enable Canadians to make more informed choices about their own health, improve decision making by those in health care roles and allow for the public to hold these people more accountable. It is a win-win situation. Here is how we are doing it.

Through the Canadian health network, our government is improving health information channels by giving millions to increase public access to health information. The government is giving $95 million to the Canadian Institute for Health Information to strengthen its capacity to report on the health of Canadians and the functioning of the Canadian health care system.

The Department of Health will be given major financial support so that it may report on the performance of federal health programs in a more effective manner.

Not only are we giving considerable support to health care information systems but we have also strengthened our health related research. Over the remainder of the fiscal year and over the next three years our government will commit a half billion dollars to health related research. This is a considerable amount and I think it will clearly have a visible effect on the type of health care this country experiences in the next century.

Health care research and innovation is traditionally focused on the scientific aspect of health care. This budget provides $25 million to develop solutions to challenges facing nursing in the next decade. It is thoughtful of our government to look at the problems associated with the profession of nursing. This profession is facing some serious challenges in the next decade and this government had the foresight to fund research to prevent a potential health catastrophe, a lack of nurses.

This is where our government differs from past governments. We care about all these things and we are doing something about it. Clearly this budget is providing substantial gains for Canadians, health care, job creation through our knowledge investment and tax relief for all Canadians.

It does not get much better than this. The people of Prince Edward Island and all Canadians can celebrate this Liberal government's budget, a budget for all Canadians.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

1:25 p.m.

Reform

Myron Thompson Reform Wild Rose, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise and question the member who just finished his speech. We are from the same generation. We are about the same age and it is always nice to compare notes. I often wonder, though, what happened to him over the years as he was growing up.

He was speaking about how wonderful this health care proposal is to the people of Canada. I read in the headlines this morning in the National Post where the Liberals are now a little concerned that the budget may help Mike Harris win the election. Is it not pathetic that suddenly the care about health care is not as important as Mike Harris might win the election?

For members of his caucus to make those kinds of statements really shows that it is a political concern. Win, win, make sure you get a seat in the House of Commons and keep the ego going. We have to win these elections. That is pathetic.

I would like the hon. member's comments with regard to the auditor general who year after year condemns the government for the way it keeps the books. It is not illegal but it is unethical. Betty Crocker's Cook Book should be renamed Paul Cookers' Crock Book.

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1:25 p.m.

Liberal

George Proud Liberal Hillsborough, PE

Mr. Speaker, I suppose what someone saying this budget would help get someone elected is something everyone has to live with. The party in my province is a different stripe from mine and I am certain it is hoping this will help it get elected. That is what politics is all about.

The great thing about this is that it shows that all the premiers, the Prime Minister, the Finance Minister of Canada and the finance ministers of the provinces got together and made this thing work and they are all very happy with it.

As far as the auditor general's comments on the way the government keeps the books, I suppose there is a difference of opinion between the auditor general, the people in the Department of Finance and people in other departments. That will go on forever. It always has and always will.

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1:25 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Gerald Keddy Progressive Conservative South Shore, NS

Mr. Speaker, we have been sitting here in this budget debate listening to the hon. members on the government side and what a great job they have done. I made the point before that we will give this budget barely a passing grade. It is nice to see the books in the black. I will repeat that statement. It is not a problem.

Let us draw it into perspective. These guys are talking about knowledge based industries and there is nothing in the budget for knowledge based industries. They are talking about the military. There is nothing in there for the military.

I want to draw the House's attention to something that is very critical to P.E.I. and very critical to coastal Canadians. On budget night we had in all of Canada three search and rescue helicopters that were fit to fly and that men and women in the Canadian Armed Forces would actually get into to try to rescue someone.

It may not mean a lot to the member from P.E.I, but I bet it means a lot to his constituents. It means a lot to my constituents in South Shore, Nova Scotia. It means a lot in Hudson Bay if one is adrift in a boat. It means a lot in just about every place in Canada; three choppers fit to fly with crews that would get in them.

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1:30 p.m.

Liberal

George Proud Liberal Hillsborough, PE

Mr. Speaker, I am on the defence committee. I am the senior member of that committee. I have been on it since 1990 and if there is anything I can do to make sure we have a fleet of search and rescue helicopters and a fleet of shipborne helicopters, it is something I have been fighting for since I went on the committee and will continue to do so as long as I am part of this government.

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1:30 p.m.

Liberal

Lynn Myers Liberal Waterloo—Wellington, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is with a great deal of honour that I rise today to enter this historic budget debate. I do so on behalf of the residents of Waterloo—Wellington and indeed on behalf of all Canadians who recognize the tremendous work that the government has done to get our fiscal house in order, to provide tax relief and to ensure that our health care system is secured for the next generation.

I begin by outlining the strong fiscal outlook contained in the budget. It is no secret that budget '99 is an outstanding testament to the efforts and sacrifices of all Canadians to put Canada's fiscal house in order. The government is dedicated to advancing the living standards of Canadians through the creation of well paying jobs, a robust economy, equal opportunities for all and a safety net for those in need.

In 1998 Canada's economy flourished despite the uncertainty in overseas markets that has hit some parts of Canada, our western provinces particularly hard. Yet job creation in Canada outpaces the other G-7 countries. Employment growth remains strong. There were 453,000 jobs created in 1998 following the impressive gain of 368,000 jobs in 1997.

I point out that almost 40% of the new jobs created in the last 12 months were to Canada's youth who posted their strongest yearly employment growth in over 25 years. I also want to note that interest rates remain low and long term rates are nearly historically low.

It is important to note that Canada's economic success is due to sound economic and fiscal policies and the hard work and sacrifice of all Canadians. The budgetary deficit which stood at $42 billion in 1993-94 was eliminated in just four years. In fact, a surplus of $3.5 billion, the first surplus in 28 years, was recorded in 1997-98 and went to pay down the debt.

This year the government will begin balancing its books or better. For the first time since 1951-52 the government has been deficit free for two consecutive years. The government is committed to further balancing budgets in both 1999-2000 and in 2000-2001. This will be the third time since Confederation that the government will record balanced budgets for at least four consecutive years. That is truly historic and worthy of note.

The balanced books means an ability to invest more in health care. Reducing our debt is an investment in our future. Our goal is to put the debt to GDP ratio on a steady downward track. As we reduce our federal debt it means that more resources are available to strengthen health care, to provide tax relief, fight child poverty and invest in research and innovation.

In 1995-96 when the debt to GDP ratio was at its peak, 36 cents of every federal revenue dollar went to paying down the debt. Last year that was down to 27 cents. Again, it is truly remarkable. This is tremendous progress and underscores the government's commitment to debt reduction.

Canada's strong economy and bright prospects are clear evidence that strong economic fundamentals are helping us to prosper. Our record of maintaining sound economic and fiscal management has led to strong growth and a reduced debt burden which in turn has allowed the government to reinvest in priorities, especially health care.

I turn to our health care system. Canadians believe our health care system is a fundamental core value. Canada's publicly funded health care system is a pillar of our society and reflects the values shared by us all. I am pleased to see that preserving and building on our health care system's strength is a cornerstone of budget '99.

Over the next five years the provinces and the territories will receive, as everyone knows, an additional $11.5 billion for health care. This represents the largest single new investment our government has ever made. These new monies will help the provinces and the territories deal with Canadians' immediate concerns about health care, things like waiting lists, crowded emergency rooms, diagnostic services and other things. The government is committed to building a stronger health care system that reflects the changing needs of Canadians and provides timely access to high quality health care.

I take this opportunity to fully outline what this means. Of the $11.5 billion dedicated to health care, $11 billion will be provided through future increases in the Canada health and social transfer. Over the next three years provinces will receive an additional $6.5 billion. For this fiscal year, $3.5 billion will be allocated as an immediate one time injection into the CHST. Provinces and territories will be able to draw on these funds in the manner which best suits their needs and their health care systems.

The $2.5 billion increase to the CHST brings the total cash portion to $15 billion, making the health component of the CHST as high as it was before the spending restraint of the mid 1990s. Combined with the CHST tax transfers and others, federal support is expected to reach a new high by the year 2001-02. This is truly good news for Canadians wherever they live.

In addition, budget '99 invests close to $1.4 billion in improving information systems, providing health related research innovation, improving first nations and Inuit health services and preventing health problems. This will ensure that doctors, nurses, administrators and researchers have the most up to date knowledge, information, treatment and cures at their fingertips. It will also allow them to innovate and learn from each other in order to benefit all Canadians.

Health research helps prevent a wide range of diseases from polio to tuberculosis. A national task force representing the health research community has developed an innovative proposal to create the Canadian institute of health research. The institute would bring together the best researchers from across Canada in areas such as aging, arthritis, women's health, cancer and diseases of the heart.

Budget '99 sets aside $240 million over the next two years to support this proposal. While we lay the groundwork for the institute, increased funding will go to the existing federal agencies that support health research and to hospitals and universities to help create world class research facilities. That is truly important to note.

Medicare is not only good social policy, it is good short and long term economic policy. We will ensure that every health care dollar spent by the Government of Canada is used to the greatest possible extent to deliver those services.

Working with the provinces and the territories and all the stakeholders in this very important public policy area, the government then is investing in high quality and high calibre health care for all. This is something Canadians need, want, deserve and expect.

In addition to medical research the government is moving to strengthen other areas of research, innovation and knowledge. This is because we know it is very important to raise the standard of living for all Canadians. In today's fast paced world investing in Canadians' access to knowledge and innovation is crucial.

Budget '99 builds on previous efforts by investing more than $1.8 billion in innovation over the remainder of this fiscal year and the next three years. This investment will help prepare Canadians for the new economy and the new millennium.

Over the past five years our government has made important investments in support of knowledge and innovation and we will continue to do this. Budget '99 provides an additional $200 million for the Canada foundation for innovation's initial $800 million endowment which is now being used to support the acquisition and modernization of world class research infrastructure. An additional $150 million over three years will be invested in technology partnerships Canada starting in 1999 and 2000. This will help keep Canada at the forefront of technological innovation, open new market opportunities and support the creation and growth of high technology industries.

The Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council, the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council and the National Research Council will also receive $121 million in funding for research and support for advanced studies over the remainder of this fiscal year and the next three years as well.

Networks of centres of excellence will also receive $90 million over three years to foster research partnerships among world class researchers in the private sector across Canada.

More than 100,000 young Canadians a year will benefit from summer employment, internships and job information through the youth employment strategy. The program has been made permanent and funding has been increased by 50% to $465 million over the next three years. An additional $110 million per year will be invested in a new Canada jobs fund to create sustainable long term jobs in regions most directly affected by high unemployment.

That is very important to note and taken all together these investments represent a balanced and comprehensive approach to advancing Canada's knowledge and innovation agenda. They will help businesses, organizations and individuals to put new ideas to work in job creating industries for the future. For Canadians this means a better standard of living and a better quality of life.

This positions Canada and all Canadians for the 21st century. This helps to secure the future for our children and our children's children. This truly represents an historic budget that we as a government and all Canadians can be proud of, knowing it positions our country to enjoy the prosperity that lies ahead in the future.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Reform

Charlie Penson Reform Peace River, AB

Mr. Speaker, as I listened to the member for Nepean—Carleton it sounded like he was painting an awfully rosy picture for Canadians in the next few years. I began to wonder whether he had his stats right. If things are so rosy why has Canada fallen so far in terms of standard of living? Why are Canadians facing such a lower standard of living now than we were facing five or ten years ago?

Our major trading partner, the United States, has been experiencing tremendous growth in standard of living. We have fallen behind the Americans by 25% in standard of living expressed in terms of GDP. We have seen 45,000 of our young professional people leaving Canada to go to the United States. If things are so rosy why is this happening?

We have the highest personal income tax rate in the G-7, about 15% higher than in the United States. The United States is experiencing tremendous growth and a tremendous increase in standard of living. Why are we so stagnant here if things are so rosy?

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1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Lynn Myers Liberal Waterloo—Wellington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for the question. I represent the riding of Waterloo—Wellington in Ontario and I am certainly proud to do so. I do know that we are on the cusp of great prosperity in this great nation. That is because we as a government have laid the foundation that enables us to take our place in the future and in the 21st century. That is very important to note.

The hon. member spoke about the G-7. We are the envy of the G-7 in terms of what we are doing. For the past number of years the United Nations has repeatedly shown that we are the leading nation when it comes to the kinds of things we do for ourselves and for our people. I think that is very important to note.

With the research and innovation we have included in this budget, we will ensure that our young people have the fair chance here that is needed and necessary. This we do in the interests of all Canadians.

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1:40 p.m.

NDP

Peter Mancini NDP Sydney—Victoria, NS

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member said that we were poised for economic greatness. Earlier his colleague, the member for Guelph—Wellington, talked about balancing the situation in the country. Let me talk about that balance a bit. I think the member from Guelph indicated that the unemployment rate in her region was 5%. This member has spoken about an unemployment rate of 7% nationally. The unemployment rate in my riding is 19%. The unemployment rate on the aboriginal reserve in my riding is 85%.

So I will ask the hon. member a serious question, not rhetoric. Would he not agree with me that much of the thrust of the budget, the centres for excellence which he talked about and the new spending above and beyond the transitional jobs funds should be directed to those regions in this country, and my riding is not the only one, with the highest unemployment rates so we can see those centres of excellence in places like Cape Breton, northern Manitoba and eastern Newfoundland? Would he not agree that would be a sensible way to direct the funding of those initiatives?

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1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Lynn Myers Liberal Waterloo—Wellington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for the question.

What I do know is that we as a government have taken a very balanced approach not only in this budget year but in previous years as well. We have taken an approach that is balanced, equitable and fair. We have ensured that we cut taxes, that we pay down the debt and that we make the wise kinds of reinvestment Canadians want, need, deserve and expect. We have done a very good job at that.

Specific to the question, I point out that when we put in place innovation, research and the new centres of excellence we do so for everyone in the country no matter where they live, in a manner consistent with the values that sustain us as a people. It is important that we do so in a manner that enables Canadians wherever they live to access those very important areas and make sure that we all prosper and benefit as a result.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Sarkis Assadourian Liberal Brampton Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, there are three ways to look at the budget, in a realistic way, an optimistic way and a negative way. Using the example of the glass being half full or half empty, this glass is seven-eighths full and one-eighth empty. That is a realistic budget.

My colleague from Waterloo—Wellington spoke about the positive points in this budget. He failed to mentioned the positive responses we received from all the premiers and the favourite son of the federal riding of Brampton Centre, Bill Davis. He spoke very highly of this budget.

I wonder why my colleague skipped this fact and did not present this information to the House?

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1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Lynn Myers Liberal Waterloo—Wellington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I know Bill Davis. I had the opportunity not so long ago to speak to him. I very much value and respect his opinion. When Bill Davis says that this is a good budget, we should all listen to that. He knows what he is talking about.

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1:45 p.m.

Reform

Grant Hill Reform Macleod, AB

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege to stand and talk about this budget.

Because I am the health critic and because I am really keen on health, I looked forward to this budget. I must say that frankly, I looked forward to it because it would be a health reinvestment budget. In a non-partisan way, I thought this would be the perfect opportunity for me to stand and cheer my colleagues across the way. I honestly, truly hoped that I would be able to do that.

Because a politician can find negatives in anything, I am going to leave the negative comments relating to this budget to health care people who are not politicians.

The Liberals said they had an excuse for cutting health. The excuse was that there was an emergency, a deficit emergency, a money emergency. Many Canadians asked why the Liberals took a money emergency and made it into a medical emergency. That would arch over my questions to my Liberal colleagues.

Reformers say that this budget is a pay more and get less for health care budget. Members have heard that a lot. I hope they will hear it a lot more.

What is the Liberal record on health since the Liberals came to power in 1993? These facts are absolutely incontrovertible. In 1993 Canada was second in the world in spending on health care. As a per cent of GDP, Canada was number two. Today Canada is number five in the world. We have plunged from two to five as a per cent of GDP. That is the Liberal record.

These are not just numbers; these matter to the public. As a percentage in the 28 OECD countries, government spending on health of all the OECD countries, Canada is 23rd out of 28. We are so close to the bottom we are almost the anchor. We are told that in private health spending we have one tier publicly financed health in Canada. Where are we in terms of private spending since 1993 until now? We went from 22% to 30% in a short span of time. That is the Liberal legacy.

This is the big, big health reinvestment; budget increases federal support for health care. What will be the balanced result of that? The balance is pretty simple. For every $2 the Liberals have taken out of health care, they are going to put $1 back in. Most eighth graders would tell me that is not very good math.

Let us look at the reception of the budget from those who are not politicians, those who stand aside and look at this with no axe to grind, none. I have chosen three big groups.

The Canadian Medical Association said, “The patient is the health care system. Budget day, it was an emergency situation, just this close to life support. With the budget it has moved from emergence to urgent. It is still acutely ill,” says the president of the Canadian Medical Association, Dr. Hugh Scully. “This is a band-aid”.

Sharon Scholzberg-Gray, the president of the Canadian Health Care Association said, “This increased funding is a step in the right direction but it will not be enough to deal with a growing aging Canadian population. The amounts are not sufficient”. This is not a political statement. This is a statement by somebody who deals with the patient.

The Canadian Nurses Association expressed concern about the long term sustainability. “At the end of four more years,” said Mary Ellen Jeans, “we will be at $15 billion which was where we were three years ago”. She did not say when the Liberals took power we were at $18.8 billion for health care. She did not mention that but I will.

I would say the reception by non-politicians to this tremendous health care reinvestment budget is negative. Would my colleagues agree? Would my Liberal colleagues agree? The Liberals talk about this as getting all kinds of encouragement and enthusiasm from across the country. I do not think so.

I have never done this in the House before but I am going to take the position of Canadian doctors on the budget. They made a prebudget submission. Because I am a doctor I have hesitated to do this. Today I am going to present the CMA position, their prebudget submission on health care. I am going to list off the things that they said needed to be done. I am going to grade the Liberal government on the CMA's behalf.

The first thing concerned funding. The CMA said there had to be sustainable funding and asked for $2.5 billion per year now, to raise the floor from $12.5 billion to $15 billion, not where it was when they started but at least get started. They also asked for $3 billion over the next three years for the damage. They said please do not keep this CHST nonsense. Identify the health care funding out in the open so that we can all see it. What was the mark? I will be fair. It was a C-minus. The Liberals did only one of those three things.

The CMA asked for a complete tobacco policy. I give the Liberals a D for that because it was not even in the budget.

The CMA asked for every doctor to be treated fairly under the GST rules, in other words, to have the GST be zero rated. I give the Liberals an F.

The CMA wanted the RRSP limits raised. I give the Liberals an F.

The CMA wanted the non-taxable health benefits maintained. That was done; an A. They also wanted a national target for health research funding. Well there is a little bit of money for health research funding but no national target so I will give the Liberals a C.

That is a C-minus, D, F, F, A and C. The Liberals did not pass and would not get into medical school with this budget.

Mr. Speaker, I am sharing my time in case you did not realize that.

Who was totally missed in this budget? The 6,600 hepatitis C victims of tainted blood. Not one penny for the left out hepatitis C individuals.

I would like to make another little announcement today. It looks like we are going to have to go to Washington, U.S.A. to get justice for those victims. Next week that is exactly what the victims and I are doing. We are going to Washington to see if we cannot find proper care for them there.

There is not much in these speeches so let me draw a parallel for my medical colleagues who are in emergencies this afternoon. When hanging up 1,000 cc's of normal saline to look after the patient on that gurney today, this is what should be done with that 1,000 cc's. This will be the way to tell how the Liberals have treated health care funding in Canada. Pour 500 cc's of the 1,000 cc's into the dish. Then pull up with a great big syringe exactly 68 cc's and put it back in the 1,000 cc's. That is what is left for the patient lying in the emergency room. That 1,000 cc's of saline almost went down to half under the Liberal government. And the Liberals put in a little tiny bit with their injection syringe from this budget.

Health care was too important to be turned into an emergency because we had a deficit problem. There were so many other choices. There was the choice of business subsidies that could have been scrubbed. There was the choice of scrubbing all kinds of aid programs. So many wasteful things could have been scrubbed.

I am going to make one last prediction. The prediction is that just before the next election a wheelbarrow full of money will come out and that wheelbarrow full of money will be designed to do one thing: save the political hides of the Liberals.

This budget is a budget where every single Canadian will pay more and get less for health care. The taxpayer will pay $2,000 more in taxes and will get $1,500 less in health care. This budget could have been so much better. I am disappointed.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member of course has five minutes of questions and comments. I think I can get about a minute in at this point. Then I want to go to Statements by Members. The hon. member for Mississauga South has about 40 seconds to get it in.

The BudgetGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member talked about private spending and the increase he said from 22% to 30% of private spending in health care. Could the member advise the House how much of this private spending is for non-medically necessary purposes? The member will know that medically necessary has specific connotations within the Canada Health Act. Could he at least clarify what percentage of private spending in fact is discretionary spending?

The BudgetGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Grant Hill Reform Macleod, AB

Mr. Speaker, the real trick about the Canada Health Act is to figure out where the Canada Health Act is not working well. This is one of the areas where the Canada Health Act is not working. The Canada Health Act needs improvement.

On the issue of comprehensiveness, in the last eight years since the Liberals have taken power some 40 separate things have been taken out of what health care did pay for. That is not comprehensiveness any more. There is a slide downward of the things that are covered.

The member across the way decries, as I do, the changes that have been undertaken. This is not what medicare should do. Fault laid at the feet of the Liberals? Maybe. Fault laid at the feet of the provinces? Maybe. But the funding has dropped.