House of Commons Hansard #184 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was budget.

Topics

Health CareOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

More, more.

Health CareOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

The Speaker

Order, please. The hon. member for Medicine Hat.

The BudgetOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Reform

Monte Solberg Reform Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Speaker, let us talk about the new politics from the Liberal government.

When we factor in hikes to CPP taxes and bracket creep, Canadians will pay over $2 billion more in taxes over the next three years and that takes into account the pathetic alleged tax relief that we got from the finance minister earlier this week.

Is a $2 billion tax hike this finance minister's twisted idea of tax relief?

The BudgetOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Reform Party attempted to demonstrate an interest in health care and failed to do so. Today it raises the tax issue as if people do not remember what it has said in the past.

The Reform Party has called for some $7 billion to $16 billion worth of cuts in order to pay for its tax package. It is very clear that the bulk of that would come out of health care.

Will the Reform Party stand up here today and tell us where it will cut and what it feels the effect of that would be on the health care system in this country?

The BudgetOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Reform

Monte Solberg Reform Medicine Hat, AB

Mr. Speaker, we would cut fat and the finance minister would be gone.

The House will notice that every time we ask a question the finance minister runs away from his own record. He should be ashamed of it.

I pointed out that taxes are going up. I want an answer from the finance minister. Will he acknowledge that CPP taxes and bracket creep are going up almost $10 billion over the next three years and will eradicate his pathetic tax relief earlier this week?

The BudgetOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, I will answer the question very quickly.

Our tax package will eliminate bracket creep for all taxpayers for the next three years. We will protect the Canada pension plan. I have answered the questions.

Now let the Reform Party answer its questions. Where will it get the $7 billion to $16 billion worth of cuts that it would take out of Canadian social programs? Answer the questions. I answered its questions.

The BudgetOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

The BudgetOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

The Speaker

Order. We have questions here and answers here.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, in March 1995, in response to a question from Jean Campeau, Quebec's finance minister at the time, who was worried that the federal government would change its transfer payment system to one based on demographic weight alone, the President of the Treasury Board replied, and I quote: “It would be the least favourable scenario for Quebec, so unfavourable that, in my opinion, it makes no sense as a solution”.

Does the President of the Treasury Board think this solution makes no sense?

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Hull—Aylmer Québec

Liberal

Marcel Massé LiberalPresident of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that Quebec is still receiving a larger share of federal transfer payments than the other provinces.

I would like the Bloc Quebecois and Parti Quebecois members to admit this.

In the budget just brought down by the Minister of Finance, if all federal transfer payments—health and equalization—are combined, it will be seen that Quebec is still receiving 29% of all federal government transfers. This has been the case for 20 years and it will continue to be the case as long as Quebec needs this assistance.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, it has been the case for 20 years and it was the case in 1995. Equalization was not mentioned then.

And I continue with the interesting statements made by the President of the Treasury Board: “One possibility, an extreme one, would be to have the same formula as in 1996-97, but Ontarians say that is not fair. Another possibility would be to operate exclusively on a per capita basis, but that would mean taking money from Quebec and giving it to Ontario”.

Does the President of the Treasury Board realize that that is exactly what the budget is doing, taking money from Quebec and giving it to Ontario? Does he remember those statements?

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, the difference between today and 1995 is that transfers were being cut then.

Today, they have been increased and the provinces knew very well that as soon as money was back in the system, there would be a return to the per capita basis.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Martin Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC

It is very clear that the CHST and equalization go hand in hand.

When the two are examined together, over a five-year period, Canada will be paying out $19 billion to the provinces and Quebec will receive—

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

The Speaker

I would ask hon. members to be kind enough to listen to the answers.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is clear from all this that, when the Minister of Finance cuts funding, it is mostly in Quebec, and when he increases funding, it is mostly in Ontario. That is clear.

If, in 1995, the President of the Treasury Board was convinced that this was the worst possible situation for Quebec, where was he when cabinet made this decision? Where were they, him and his Quebec colleagues? They are just featherweights against Ontario heavyweights. They are unable to protect Quebec's interests.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, following the budget of the Minister of Finance, Quebec will receive, within three weeks, a cheque for $1.4 billion, with no strings attached.

Unfortunately, the reason for this is that Quebec's economy is being hurt by all this separatist talk and is not improving as well as Ontario's economy.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Mr. Speaker, what is unfortunate is—

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

The Speaker

Order, please. The hon. member for Roberval.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Gauthier Bloc Roberval, QC

Mr. Speaker, what is most unfortunate is that the member for Saint-Maurice is among the 26 who should look after Quebec's interests, but we know what his position is.

Yesterday, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs said that his province is very well served, while his colleague, the President of the Treasury Board, who was less involved in this matter, felt that this was the worst possible situation for Quebec.

Are we to understand that what Liberal ministers from Quebec say varies depending on what they have to sell?

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, here we go again. When they run out of arguments, they resort to insults and name calling.

What a terrible outcome: with the $1.4 billion that it will get, the Quebec government will be able to balance its budget and this will once again be the federal government's fault.

Transfer PaymentsOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, I would like to put some quotes again today to the finance minister.

If they are willing to pay, Canadians could get themselves a higher standard of care and quicker access. Whose words are these? The leader of the Reform Party's, trying as usual to sell two tier health care, and this government is buying.

Canadians now pay directly out of their own pocket 30 cents for every health care dollar.

Why is this government following the lead of the Reform Party?