Debates of Feb. 2nd, 1999

Supply

[Derrek Konrad, Reform, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, as the shouting dies down I will try to make a comment or two on what the member said.

He called it sexual McCarthyism. This is one person's viewpoint. I respect that person's viewpoint, but I do not believe that the majority of people in this country think that way. I certainly do not believe that the bulk of the members on that side think that way. I think members are looking for outs so they can support what they have been told to support.

He said the child law is flawed. I do not believe that. The law is not flawed simply because this man says it is flawed. He may have an opinion, but that does not necessarily mean it is the right opinion. That is not necessarily the opinion that will be delivered by a supreme court justice.

It is not the opinion of the Reform Party or any other member on this side of the House who is voting in accordance with their conscience and what their constituents wish that the law is flawed. We say it needs to be upheld. The quickest and best way to uphold it is to bring in section 33, the notwithstanding clause so that this law can continue in effect. It was brought in by a previous parliament and was supported across the board. We want to see it supported in the House.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I find it remarkable that the member for Peterborough is quoting with some authority Allan Dershowitz, a radical leftist American constitutional authority.

The American constitutional system is based on judicial review, whereas the Canadian system is based on a principle known as parliamentary supremacy, a principle which even this Prime Minister guaranteed was enshrined in the charter through section 33. This place has not used it before. Whenever we have raised the issue of judicial activism this government has said that we were Chicken Littles. Today we see the ultimate consequences of a completely unencumbered, unaccountable judiciary. That is why I ask my colleague from Prince Albert what he thinks about using American constitutional theory to apply to the Canadian charter.

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

I rise on a point of order and ask for permission to table the document I was citing from.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Does the hon. member for Peterborough have the unanimous consent of the House to table the document from which he was quoting?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[John Nunziata, Independent, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

Earlier today I referred to a signed letter to the Prime Minister of Canada. I inadvertently failed to table this document. It is a document signed by 75 members of the Liberal caucus asking for the same action that this resolution today is asking for. I would like to table this document.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Does the hon. member have the unanimous consent of the House to table this document?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[An hon. member]

No.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The hon. member for Prince Albert will have a few seconds to respond to the question that was asked of him.

[Derrek Konrad, Reform, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that in Canada we have a system where we have parliamentary supremacy. That means we have a responsibility. We cannot abdicate it and say that every question has to go to the supreme court. We can act here in the House. We have a notwithstanding clause that allows us as parliamentarians to make a law stand once we have made it in the way in which it was intended to be made.

[Eric C. Lowther, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to speak to this motion.

It is a painful issue for many Canadians across the country as we have seen expressed from coast to coast.

Interestingly the crux of this argument seems to be the defence of some sort of freedom, yet at the same time we are talking about a failure of our system to protect the most vulnerable. In the cause of freedom and the championing of rights we have crossed over the line of rational thought when we can no longer protect the most vulnerable in our society. As we charge down the highway of rights and freedoms, we have made a grave error today if we let this stand the way it is.

I applaud the members of the House in my party and every party. There are some on the other side who are determined to put a quick end to this grave mistake.

We have had supreme court rulings in the past. They have had more wisdom on this issue than the current one. I am sure it has been referenced in the debates today. In the Butler case it was ruled that the access to pornographic material is not in the public interest. It is demonstrably harmful to society. For that very reason section 1 of the charter was called into effect and it was deemed to be illegal. There was no outcry there. In fact, Canadians were pleased to see that ruling. That is not the one we are faced with today. We are seeing just the opposite.

What concerns me is must we have more victims before we can determine if there is harm? We talked about the determination of harm being the criteria before we will decide whether it is reasonable to shut this kind of thing down. How much harm must we endure before we can say there has been enough? How many more children, victims, need to be involved in this kind of sick thing before we can say there has been enough?

Maybe we should not go overboard in determining harm but ask if there is any redeeming attribute of this material that would legitimize it. I would suggest there is absolutely not. Put the onus on the other side. Where is the redeeming attribute in this kind of material? How does it add to the health and safety of our children, our families and our community? It is not there.

In a charter world we seem to stop using our heads and we rely on legal arguments and highly articulated legalese. Somewhere we have lost sight that there is a victim at the end of all this and it is a child. It is tragic.

I have read material that talks about the impacts of pornography. Oftentimes those that are caught up in this cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality after a while and sooner or later they act out.

I know there are all kinds of studies and debates and people that articulate the different sides of this. However, if we asked 100 Canadians that very question whether they think that looking at this is going to distort our perception of reality, that we start to look at individual children as objects rather than individuals, of those 100 Canadians far and away the majority will say yes, it does distort reality. It is not an accurate picture of a child.

Interestingly, a paroled sexual offender was released in my riding not long ago. One of the conditions of the individual's parole was that he not avail himself, look at or expose himself to pornographic material. That was a condition of his parole. Here we have the court system and a judge saying that this would not work. This would not be good for this individual. This would distort his sense of reality again.

One court is saying do not touch it and another court is saying it is quite all right for people to avail themselves of this material and legitimize this market. It is wrong and we have an opportunity here today to fix it.

I know that many members in this House want to shut this down now which is what the Canadian people want to have happen. We can shut this down now and put an end to the continued victimization of children, the victims depicted in these horrible things. It is not a case of freedoms and rights. It is a case of children who are victims. It is a case of the children not only who are victims today in this material but the ones who will be impacted tomorrow if we allow this to continue and we allow the legitimization of this market to carry on.

I suggest that all Canadians are victims. If we allow a law like this one to stand, every Canadian is tarnished. The pride in our country and who we are as Canadians is diminished when we say to people from other countries that in Canada we think it is quite all right for people to look at and study this kind of pornographic material that depicts children. It diminishes all of us as Canadians. We are all victimized by this. It is just not acceptable.

To defend freedoms that fail to protect the most innocent is crossing over the line. Many of us here know it. We know it in our hearts. Today we have an opportunity to show the Canadian people that being a Canadian means something. We stand for something but we are not going to stand for this. Let us do it today.

[The Speaker]

My colleague, you still have three minutes. I want to intervene here and you will have the floor when we return to the debate, if you want it.

We will go to Statements by Members.

The Late Frank Low-Beer

[Ted McWhinney, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Frank Low-Beer, who died last month, was educated at Stanford University and Oxford University and called to the bar of British Columbia in 1957. He practised law in a wide range of fields, including taxation, international transactions and resource law. He also published extensively on such issues as the Canadian Constitution and the role of judges in formulating policy in law and legislation.

Frank maintained a keen interest in politics and was a candidate in my riding of Vancouver Quadra in the 1974 federal general election. He will be missed by associates and by scholars of law and government.

Child Pornography

[Darrel Stinson, Reform, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the first responsibility of government is to protect the safety and well-being of its law-abiding citizens. That responsibility is especially strong when it comes to the safety and well-being of Canada's children.

However, a judge in British Columbia has ruled that the rights of children to be protected are less important than the so-called rights of some adults who want to look at pictures of child pornography.

Such exploitation of children makes most Canadians sick but the government is saying there is plenty of time to send this judge's ruling through endless appeals in our backlogged courts. The judgment only affects courts in B.C. and not in the rest of Canada.

Can members imagine a parliamentary secretary making such a statement if the ruling had come down in Ontario or Quebec?

Canadians are fed up with politicians letting the courts make our laws instead of parliament making our laws. This House rams through legislation when it suits them. Why should it take any longer to act against child pornography?

International Development Week

[Gurbax Malhi, Liberal, Bramalea—Gore—Malton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, International Development Week activities are being held across Canada this week.

This year's theme is celebrate Canada's place in the world. It was chosen to honour the many thousands of Canadians who have made lasting contributions abroad.

Numerous groups active in international development include non-governmental organizations, professional and educational institutions, churches and the business sector.

This week's events are certain to create a healthy atmosphere for Canada to develop closer friendship ties within the international community.

I am pleased to join my colleagues in the House of Commons to encourage Canadians across the country to join in these celebrations in their neighbourhoods.

Nordicity

[Peter Adams, Liberal, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the world summit on nordicity is being held in Quebec City this week. Canada is a very appropriate host for an event that celebrates things northern and polar.

Quebec City is a particularly appropriate venue for this event because the term nordicité, in English nordicity, was coined by the distinguished Quebec scholar Louis-Edmond Hamelin.

Mr. Hamelin developed a nordicity index which measures physical and social aspects of the north. This is a way of assessing the severity of life in different parts of the polar world. It gives, for example, employers a way of assessing living and working conditions for people posted to particular northern locations.

Mr. Hamelin's index has stimulated a great deal of creative thought about life in high latitudes.

We wish those involved in the world summit on nordicity a pleasant and productive visit to Quebec City and Canada, the home of Louis-Edmond Hamelin.

Job Creation

[David Iftody, Liberal, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, 18 full time jobs were created in my riding recently with the announcement of a loan from the Government of Canada to two local companies operated by former employees of the AECL plant in Pinawa.

Acsion Industries is expected to create 14 full time jobs over the next three years. The company has recently opened up international markets for its electron beam technology which is used in aerospace industry, parts repair, rayon fibre production and converting hog waste into fertilizer.

Granite Internet Services Inc. is providing high level Internet services to eastern Manitoba and is creating four full time jobs over three years. The company provides dial-up Internet access, business services and design services for local area networks and websites.

I am particularly pleased to support these two young companies because they are both owned and managed by former AECL employees. These are the sorts of initiatives we have been aiming for because they are creating jobs for an expanding economic base in western Canada.

The Late Wiarton Willie

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Wiarton Willie, Canada's most famous groundhog, passed away on Sunday night. He left thousands of fans a little lonelier this Groundhog Day and millions of Canadians wondering whether or not spring will come early.

Oh sure, we have weather balloons and satellites. Yes, I have heard scientists talk about El Nino and about the global freezing your tush off theory, but the only meteorologist for many Canadians was Wiarton's reliable rodent.

Willie lived a long and happy life. He was 22, which is three times longer than most groundhogs live. That is like 154 dog years.

How he would have loved today: the crowds, the excitement and the intense publicity. Would he see his shadow? Would it be six weeks until spring?

Alas, the only shadow he saw this week was the shadow of death. Rest in peace, my furry little friend. I hope you go to the place in the sky where all good groundhogs go, where it is spring all year round.

Thank you, Willie, for your life of public service and hope.

John Davidson

[Sue Barnes, Liberal, London West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure today to congratulate my constituent John Davidson who, on January 20, completed his cross-country journey to raise funds for genetic research. John began “Jesse's Journey—A Father's Tribute” in St. John's, Newfoundland in April of last year. He ended his inspirational journey in Victoria, B.C. after walking nearly 8,300 kilometres across Canada. He set out to raise $10 million to endow a fund that would generate a million dollars a year for research into genetic disease. So far he has been successful in raising over $2 million. But knowing his tenacity I am convinced that with the help of Canadians he will reach the goal.

I offer my congratulations to the nuclear and extended Davidson family, to volunteers and to contributors who worked so hard to make this journey a success. I also offer my thanks to all Canadians for welcoming John into their communities and into their hearts.

With all members of this House I salute John Davidson for his courageous and unending efforts. He has brought hope to future generations.

Heart Month

[Ben Serré, Liberal, Timiskaming—Cochrane, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to remind the House, and all the people of Canada, that February is Heart Month.

Health Canada has collaborated with the Heart and Stroke Foundation and the provinces in the Canadian Heart Health Initiative, in order to encourage Canadians to adopt a healthy lifestyle and to create living and working conditions conducive to healthy choices.

Canada has decided to adopt a public health-centred approach to the prevention of cardiovascular disease. Cardiovascular disease is the first-ranking cause of death, and one of the top causes of disability in Canada.

Canada has won some important battles in the war against heart disease and stroke, but there is still a great deal left to be done if we are to continue to reduce the risk factors relating to these diseases: high blood pressure, smoking, high cholesterol levels, and diabetes.

By investing in heart health, we can make a considerable reduction in the incidence of heart disease. And by encouraging all of society to make this investment, we will be able to improve the quality of life of countless numbers of Canadians.

Annie Perrault

[Serge Cardin, Bloc, Sherbrooke, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Annie Perreault, a young woman from our Eastern Townships, won two medals at the Nagano Olympics, one of them a gold in short-track speed skating.

Since that memorable performance, Annie has been honoured three times in the last month. On January 5, she was awarded the 1998 leadership award as a model athlete by the weekly newspaper La Nouvelle de Sherbrooke . Then, at the gala du Mérite sportif de l'Estrie, Annie was named athlete of the year for the third time. Finally,, last Friday, January 22, at the Sports-Québec gala in Montreal, Annie was crowned top female international athlete of the year.

On behalf of all the people of the riding of Sherbrooke, I offer my heartiest congratulations to this athlete who is making our region known throughout the world, and who has risen to the top because of her passion for sport and her constant efforts.

Thank you so much, Annie, and good luck in future competitions.

Child Pornography

[Val Meredith, Reform, South Surrey—White Rock—Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday when answering a question about the child pornography case in British Columbia the minister of justice stated that an effort to pre-empt that appellate process is silly and wrong headed.

Outside the House she stated that opposition MPs were stirring up unnecessary fear over the issue because the ruling is only binding on lower court judges in B.C., which has had one case thrown out and forty others put on hold.

As is so often the case with this government it forgets that B.C. is still a part of Canada. I can assure the minister that British Columbians do not appreciate being one of the few jurisdictions in the world which legalizes child pornography.

Does the minister not realize that real children have to be sexually abused to produce child pornography? Does she really believe that efforts to protect these children today are silly and wrong headed? Whose side is she on?

Canada Jobs Fund

[Raymond Lavigne, Liberal, Verdun—Saint-Henri, QC]

Mr. Speaker, on December 13, the Minister of Human Resources Development and the Minister of Labour launched the Canada Jobs Fund to help Canadians find employment.

In today's context of market globalization and openness in various areas, our government believes it is important for all Canadians to take full advantage of every opportunity to improve their quality of live.

This initiative will benefit regions where the rate of unemployment is 10% and over. In Quebec, the areas affected will be Quebec City, Trois-Rivières, Sherbrooke and Montreal.

By making changes to this initiative to include more communities, the Government of Canada recognizes the need to stimulate employment and to reduce unemployment through a strategy that fosters economic growth across Canada.

The Late Alan John Simpson

[Wendy Lill, NDP, Dartmouth, NS]

Mr. Speaker, 59 years ago Alan John Simpson was born in Winnipeg and was an active, athletic boy until he came down with polio at 14.

After three years in the hospital and at home, he told his parents “I want to go back to school”. Alan was the first student in a wheelchair at Gordon Bell High and then went on to graduate from University of Manitoba.

Over his life Alan helped create 30 international and national organizations, including the Council of Canadians with Disabilities.

Alan did all this with humour, passion and common sense. One neighbour remembers the day Alan wheeled up while he was surveying his newly purchased property. “What are you going to do right there?”, he said. The neighbour said “I am going to put my front door”. Alan said “If you put in a ramp too, then I will be able to come up and water your plants when you are away”. He did put in a ramp.

Alan Simpson had an impact on people. In the late 1980s he pressed for inclusion of disabilities in the charter of rights and freedoms. Last October Alan received the Order of Canada.

In December Alan died due to complications from surgery. I would like to join with all Canadians and members of the House of Commons to remember Alan John Simpson, revered, loved and never forgotten.