Debates of Feb. 2nd, 1999

Social Union

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I speak with people of all parties. Mr. Romanow is not a Liberal, although he is going to become one some day, I hope.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

No, you don't want that? Never mind.

Do you want Mr. Harris to become a Liberal?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

No, but I did speak to him.

Do you want Mr. Clark to become a Liberal?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

And then there is Mr. Klein.

I spoke twice to Mr. Bouchard. It is true, he was once a Liberal.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister of Canada has a problem, if he cannot tell the difference between someone with the status of premier and someone who is a leader of the opposition.

To those of us on this side of the House, this is a bit reminiscent of the Chateau Laurier kitchen plot of 1981. Not a good sign for Quebec.

We are asking the Prime Minister what guarantee we have that there will not be a repeat of the usual prime ministerial strategy of negotiating with everybody except Quebec, in order to isolate Quebec.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am convinced that the Quebec premier speaks to the Bloc Quebecois from time to time.

We are told that it gets instructions every day from Mr. Bouchard, even instructions to keep Mr. Parizeau occupied.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Thursday's first ministers meeting on the social union will only succeed for Canadians if the Prime Minister brings sufficient cash for health care to the table. Canadians do not want more posturing. They do not want more wrangling. They want the Prime Minister to put on the table the necessary resources to rebuild our health care system, a minimum of $2.5 billion this year.

Can the Canadians count on the Prime Minister to come through with the resources necessary to do that?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, generally speaking the Prime Minister tries to come through all the time.

That is why we managed to take the real mess which existed with the $42 billion deficit and reduce it to zero. That is why there was 11.5% unemployment in Canada when we started and now it is at 8%. We used to have 12% to 13% inflation; now it is 1%. We generally come through.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, what will it take to get the Prime Minister to admit to the real mess his government has left our health care system in?

Under the proposed social union the provinces may withdraw from Canada-wide programs with compensation. Canadians fear that this could lead to some provincial governments opting out of medicare altogether. Ontario is already threatening to do that.

Will the Prime Minister promise today that the government will enter into a social union agreement only if the important principles of medicare are fully protected?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there were discussions on medicare before we started. If I remember they were in Saskatchewan.

If the member had done her homework she would have read the letter that was signed by all the premiers. They guaranteed in the letter they sent me before I asked to see them that they wanted to keep the five conditions of medicare. All the premiers of all the governments of different colours signed the letter.

Child Pornography

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the recent ruling by the B.C. court regarding child pornography should be dealt with immediately.

The Prime Minister is a father. I am a mother and a grandmother. I am begging this government to act now to protect all of our Canadian children from those who make and use this repulsive material.

I am asking the Prime Minister to intervene today and have the justice minister fast track this matter to the Supreme Court of Canada to be corrected immediately.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to hear that the member is concerned. In 1981 when I was the minister of justice, I introduced the first legislation on child pornography. I think I know what this is all about.

At that time I discussed the reality of child pornography in the committee and I had to fight the opposition. Some NDP members did not want me to proceed and some Conservative members did too. They claimed that it was against freedom of speech.

I just wanted to let the member know that I started on this problem in 1981 and I am not about to stop now. In the meantime, I will respect the due process of law.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, as everybody knows, including the Prime Minister, it was our party that brought in the law that is there today.

I am saying once again that the people from coast to coast are appalled by the B.C. ruling. This issue is critical to the very essence of our country and the rights of our children. We cannot sit idly by as they are being subjected to the sexual abuse and terrors of sick individuals. It is time to protect our most vulnerable, the little children.

I am asking the Prime Minister and the justice minister to act as soon as possible, sooner rather than later, and to correct this situation before it is too late.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I want to tell the hon. member that the Tories came to power in 1984. I was the minister of justice in 1980.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The Right Hon. Prime Minister has the floor.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we will have to call the American doctors soon.

We have acted very rapidly. As the minister said earlier, the law is still being applied. We are going before the appeal court in B.C. and we will go to the supreme court if needed. However, we will maintain the system of law of this land. We have courts and they make the decisions. After the Supreme Court of Canada passes judgment, then we act in Canada.

[Eric C. Lowther, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the justice minister tells us that the child protection pornography law is working for the rest of Canada.

What about the children of B.C.? Are they not Canadians too?

This judge's ruling was out of bounds and we can do something about it in this House today. I do not want to hear more legalise from legal experts. I want to know today from the Prime Minister if he will call off his whips and allow his caucus a free vote on this issue today in this House.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me reiterate yet again that this government has acted and it acted expeditiously when this particular section of the Criminal Code was struck down. We are supporting the attorney general of British Columbia.

The attorney general of British Columbia is asking that this appeal be expedited before the court of appeal. The attorney general of British Columbia continues to enforce those provisions of the law that deal with child pornography.

This government has acted.

[Eric C. Lowther, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are tired of legalise when children are suffering.

I am having a flashback to the hepatitis C vote. I am concerned that the same thing is happening here again today. Many Liberals want to vote in support of this shutdown of child pornography.

My question is again addressed to the Prime Minister. When will this Prime Minister allow his backbenchers and his party to vote with a free conscience on this motion?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me reiterate yet again for the official opposition and for others who have expressed, I know, a legitimate concern here today. In fact we have acted in defence of Canada's children. We have intervened to appeal the decision of the B.C. Court of Queen's Bench. We support the attorney general of British Columbia in his seeking an expedited appeal.

I presume the hon. member when he refers to legalise is probably suggesting that we should simply ignore the rule of law and the due process of law.

Health

[Pierre Brien, Bloc, Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister said, and I quote “All we are asking is that the provinces taking the money we want applied to health care guarantee that that is where it will go”.

Since the provinces have already provided written assurance that they will invest all the money they get from Ottawa in health care, does the Prime Minister not think he already has his guarantees and must therefore pay the provinces the money?