Debates of April 21st, 1999

Agriculture

[Some hon. members]

Boo, boo.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I know there is a question in there somewhere.

[Rick Borotsik, Progressive Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it was a Freudian slip. I apologize.

Approximately $900 million was supposed to flow to farmers. Unfortunately the government seems to be wanting to save money as opposed to saving agriculture.

Will the minister please make sure that the application forms are better processed so he can put back in the producers' hands the dollars that he promised?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, if you want some names to call the hon. member, I know some that would be appropriate.

The member refers to the forms. If he would like to see a set of the forms, I would remind him that there are only seven pages. The first page of the form is name and address. The next one is miscellaneous income and expenses. The next one is purchased inputs, crop inventory, livestock inventory, a summary of the inventory. That is the sixth page. The last one is a list of receivables and payables.

There is not one bloody figure on there that cannot be pulled off their income tax or their farm statement.

[The Speaker]

Let us be judicious in our choice of words.

Kosovo

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Just as long as you do not become known as Mr. Streaker, it will be fine with us, Mr. Speaker.

The official opposition support for our troops and against Milosevic is absolutely unwavering.

The Prime Minister says he will let NATO decide whether or not Canada commits troops to Yugoslavia. How many troops is he prepared to commit, or will he let NATO tell us? How many lives will he put on the line, or will he let NATO tell us?

This is a huge decision. It should be a Canadian decision. Why is he letting NATO tell us what to do?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

I said, Mr. Speaker, and I repeat it, that if there is a request for ground troops to go into a combat situation in Kosovo, there will be a debate in the House of Commons before we send them.

They could have had a vote themselves and they ran away from the vote. Rather than ask a question on Kosovo the day after the debate in the House, they had a strange day last week because the Liberal Party is getting effective in western Canada.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when will the Prime Minister act like a leader? The last time I checked, Canada was a sovereign nation. They made a big deal about not taking their marching orders from Washington. Little did we know they would be taking them from Brussels.

When will the government put its position to parliament so Canadians can have their representatives vote on the most important decision a nation can make?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we had a debate. The leader of his party spoke on behalf of his party, I presume, and all the other leaders spoke. The morning after they could have had a vote on that and they declined.

The government has the confidence of this side. I was told last week that I had the confidence of the four parties on the other side. I thought it was enough to speak on behalf of all Canadians.

International Trade

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Americans are thinking of withdrawing Canada's defence and aerospace export privileges.

The Minister of International Trade learned this from the newspapers, but the Minister of Foreign Affairs was aware that his departmental staff had been discussing this with Washington for some months.

My question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who appears to know what is going on. Since the planned restrictions even affect contracts with no connection to military secrecy, how does the government plan to defend itself against these new attempts by Washington to do harm to the trade between the two countries?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I will be meeting next Friday with the U.S. Secretary of State to discuss this. It is very important for Canada and for the United States.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can Canada claim to be properly defending the interests of Quebec, when no one in Quebec was aware that the Americans were preparing to impose such trade restrictions, while in Ottawa the matter had been being discussed with Washington for some months?

Is this Ottawa's philosophy has for defending Quebec: What they don't know won't hurt them?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, when officials and ministers of the government deal with another country we speak for all Canadians, incluant les Québécois.

Kosovo

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the only thing that we can seem to discern about the Prime Minister's position on the conflict in Kosovo is ground troops if necessary but necessarily ground troops.

That begs the question under what criteria would the Prime Minister believe that ground troops would be necessary. When that question comes before the NATO conference and Bill Clinton and Tony Blair provide their answers to the question, what will our Prime Minister say? When are ground troops necessary? Does he have a position?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have a very clear position. We have entered into the campaign to stop President Milosevic and the ethnic cleansing, raping and murdering that are going on.

However, we are a member of a team and as a member of a team we have agreed on a strategy that the best way to break the resolve of Milosevic was to have air strikes. That is what is going on at this time. It took 45 days of air strikes in Iraq before we could move on to the next stage. We are not there yet.

We are accelerating the air strikes at this moment. I believe that it is the best policy at this time, agreed to by everybody including Canada.

[Jason Kenney, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister misses the point. The members of the team will be gathering in Washington later this week to talk about what extension, if any, we get into in the Kosovo conflict.

When that discussion happens, will Canada through its Prime Minister just sit idly by and let the other members of the team make a decision for us and our troops, or will we participate in that discussion, make a recommendation and offer a position as to whether and under what criteria ground troops would be necessary?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, for a party that is supposed to support a position of the government, it is trying to have it both ways.

The hon. member should know that this Prime Minister is not known as a very shy person.

Plutonium Imports

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday we heard that the government categorically rejected the recommendation of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade regarding the idea of burning MOX fuel.

My question is for the Prime Minister. How can the government ignore the work of a House committee and take the decision to import plutonium without even consulting the public?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, the testing of a minute amount of MOX material is already well covered within the licensing authority of the Chalk River lab.

If the project should go any distance beyond that, it would require a full public environmental review. We have said that now at least 17 times.

[Jocelyne Girard-Bujold, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, given the importance of such a decision by the government, should the Prime Minister not announce without delay that this important issue of importing plutonium will be debated in the House?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, now for the 18th time.

If there is any decision to be taken that goes beyond the mere testing that is already covered by the licensing at Chalk River, there would be a full public review that would cover all environmental, health and safety requirements as provided in either federal or provincial law.

Fisheries

[Gary Lunn, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general has just issued a stern warning to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans that the same mismanagement which led to the collapse of the cod fishery now threatens the multibillion dollars shellfish industry.

We have no cod. Thanks to the minister, soon we will have no shellfish. Is the minister proud that his legacy will be that there will no shellfish industry left in Canada?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, we should refer to the hon. member as the member of gloom and doom. He certainly knows far better than that.

The shellfish industry was the main economic activator in Newfoundland last year. The auditor general had some good things to say in his report as well in terms of some of the directions we are taking.

We have learned lessons from the past. We intend to build on those lessons and we intend to use the auditor general's report as good advice.

[Gary Lunn, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general made it very clear that the shellfish industry is going down the same path as the cod did 10 years ago.

The only lesson that the taxpayers learned is that it cost them over $3 billion, and there are still no cod and the fishermen are worse off today.

Will the legacy of the government with shellfish be another $3 billion on the backs of the taxpayer? What is it?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the moneys expended in terms of the retirement packages in the groundfishery were spent for good cause, to help in terms of the social welfare of the community and to retire licences.

In fact there was too much capacity. We recognized that and that capacity has been brought down from 18,000 licence holders in 1992 to 11,000 today.

In terms of the shell fishery, we are managing it in ways of good management plans, dockside monitoring, enforcement officers, and the list is too long for me to continue with.