Debates of April 22nd, 1999

Kosovo

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we are not talking about incremental costs. We are talking about a total cost besides incremental.

The government budgeted $103 million for the procurement of smart bombs. Our fighters have flown well over 100 sorties into that region. Obviously supplies are getting rather thin.

Would the defence minister inform the House as to what the supply situation is with regard to the smart weapons, what steps the government will take to replenish those supplies, and how much it will cost?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we have the equipment that is necessary to do the job. I was just in Aviano. I have seen our equipment and our planes there.

Our Canadian forces personnel are doing a terrific job. They have the supplies that are necessary. The government is providing the funds that are necessary to make sure we do the job that needs to be done to try to give the people of Kosovo back their homeland.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, no one in the House is more concerned about the Canadian armed forces than the official opposition. For years we have urged that additional funds be devoted to those forces. Now we are on the verge of entering the first ground war in 46 years.

When will the government put forward a spending plan to ensure, as Churchill said, that these troops will have the tools to do the job?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, they do have the tools that are needed to do the job.

We have made no decision. NATO has made no decision with respect to ground troops. We are sticking to the course on the air campaign. We are staying with that course. We are ultimately preparing when there is a ceasefire, when there is peace in Kosovo, to be able to move peacekeepers into that area.

[Bob Mills, Reform, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we all know that the Canadian forces have been starved for funds for years. Now we are at war. In fact we have been at war for a month now.

Will the government assure the House that the costs of the war in Kosovo will not have to be absorbed by the already inadequate defence budget?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I remind hon. members that we had in fact an increase in the defence department budget this year. We had an increase because the government wanted to make sure that we treated our people properly and that they had a decent quality of life.

If we go back to the last election, it was not that long ago that party over there was advocating a further billion dollar cut to the budget.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we are 24 hours away from the meeting of leaders of NATO countries in Washington.

We know that the United States and Great Britain are giving increasingly serious thought to sending ground troops into Kosovo. At noon today, NATO's secretary general said that no decision would be taken in Washington.

Does the Prime Minister share the opinion of NATO's secretary general?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we will hold three days of talks, and all topics will be covered.

If NATO's secretary general says that a decision will not be made by Monday, we shall see. At this point, we are all on the same wavelength. We want to make sure that the massacres, the murders and the rapes are stopped, that peace is restored by removing Serbian troops from Kosovo and sending them back to Belgrade, and that the Kosovars can return to their homes.

That is why we are continuing with the air strikes. We intend to keep on. If there is any change, I will so advise the House, as I promised to do.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it sounds a bit like something Yogi Berra would have said “There is no change as long as there is no change”.

I would like him to be more serious and tell us whether he is going to stick to the position he is now taking. If he is, will he promise us not to change that position until it has been debated and approved by a vote in this House?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there will be 19 government leaders with responsibilities to fulfil.

Whatever the circumstances, I am going to assume the responsibilities one would hope a Prime Minister of Canada could assume. There has been a debate in this House. The House of Commons supports the government's position. In my speech last Monday, I clearly set out all the conditions of our current participation in what NATO is doing.

I have the support of this House and I intend to speak on its behalf and on behalf of all Canadians.

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Prime Minister said that the decision to send in Canadian ground troops had not been taken and did not need to be taken as long as NATO itself has not made a decision.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Are we to understand that the decision to send Canadian troops to Kosovo will not be made by the executive branch of the government, by the Prime Minister or by this parliament, but by the other NATO members, which would explain why the Prime Minister is refusing to hold a vote in the House on this issue?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the decision to send in Canadian combat troops will be made by the Government of Canada. There is doubt about that.

I said that no troops would be sent in without another debate in the House of Commons. My position is very clear.

As for a vote, this week they had an opportunity to move a motion on that, and we would have had to vote, but they did not have the courage to do so.

[The Speaker]

Once again, I remind members that they must not question the courage of other members.

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in 1991, the Prime Minister was asking for moral authority.

Now, he seems to find it easy to do without such moral authority. The House can vote on all sorts of issues, but not on the most important one, that is our participation in a war.

Why is the Prime Minister refusing to hold a vote, if not because he would be embarrassed to have a definite position that would prevent him, at the NATO meeting, from blindly following what the others will tell him to do?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we will meet with 19 other heads of government, and we will discuss like adults.

On Monday of last week, the leader of the Bloc Quebecois supported the government's position. On Monday of this week, he had the opportunity to ask for a vote and force members to either support or reject the government's position, but he did not do it.

The Government of Canada, through its prime minister, will defend Canada's interests in Washington this weekend, and we will find a joint solution with the 19 other—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Burnaby—Douglas.

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question for the Prime Minister is on tomorrow's NATO summit. Russia has made it very clear that it will not join in a NATO led peacekeeping force in Kosovo.

NATO and the United States, however, continue to insist on this condition, which will mean more bombing, more deaths, more refugees and more environmental disaster.

Will the Prime Minister finally show leadership, not just follow Bill Clinton, and tell our NATO allies tomorrow that Canada supports a UN led peacekeeping force in Kosovo, not a NATO led peacekeeping force?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, there is no such thing possible at this moment as a UN led force in Kosovo. We have worked on that and it is not possible. I talked with Mr. Chernomyrdin about working with the Russians and I talked with the Prime Minister of China but there is no such proposition at this time.

What we are faced with at the moment is that the murders, rapes and cleansing are going on. With the NATO forces we will keep bombarding until Milosevic stops that and brings his people back to Belgrade.

[Svend Robinson, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question for the Prime Minister. This week the Prime Minister announced that Canada will send ground troops to Kosovo if our NATO allies all agree.

Since the Prime Minister has already made this decision and announced it to our allies, what is the point of a debate in the House? Why is the Prime Minister telling Canadians that he will listen to Washington, Bonn and Luxembourg but to hell with the elected representatives—

[The Speaker]

Please, my colleagues, be very judicious in your choice of words.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, those are the people who supported the government 10 days ago. They said we were doing the right thing 10 days ago.

Do they believe we should let Milosevic rape and kill the people, do nothing and hope that some day the UN might have the troops? We will keep doing what we are doing because it is the right thing to do for Canadians and all 19 countries in NATO.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, BBC World News reported that some British soldiers serving in the Balkans suffered a $10 a day pay cut and German troops are getting an extra $100 per day.

My question is for the Minister of National Defence. Will he assure the House that Canadian forces personnel are getting the pay they deserve for combat operations?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we just gave, as of April 1 of this year, the highest pay increases in decades to the Canadian forces. We gave it to people primarily in the lower ranks. We also increased the allowances for foreign duty. We increased the allowances for the very people who are over there now in connection with our campaign in Kosovo.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, that is very interesting, but there is a little more the minister has to do. Our Canadian forces personnel have been active in the skies over Yugoslavia for almost a month, but to date cabinet has not made them or their families eligible for veterans benefits through an order in council. When is this government going to do the right thing and initiate an order in council that would support these brave men and women serving in the Balkans?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we just had an excellent piece of work done by the Standing Committee on National Defence and Veterans Affairs. It came up with a report on how to improve the quality of life for our troops and for our veterans.

In fact the Minister of Veterans Affairs and I just opened a new centre that will provide one reference point for veterans and for troops who are injured or troops who are looking for additional information on how they can improve the quality of life for themselves and their families. We have some 89 recommendations that we are in the throes of implementing to improve the quality of life for all.