Debates of Feb. 25th, 2000

Agriculture

[Rick Borotsik, Progressive Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, with yesterday's welcomed but belated announcement of Manitoba and Saskatchewan agricultural support, the minister acknowledged the huge impact that the cancellation of the Crow benefit had on farm net incomes.

Is the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food now admitting to western Canadian farmers that he and his government totally mishandled the cancellation of the Crow rate and that it should have been phased out over a much longer period of time, as was proposed by the previous Conservative government?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, when this government took over from the hon. member's party, I do not have to remind Canadians of the financial situation of the country. We had to make some changes at that time. We made changes that affected the grain transportation policy in western Canada, which we put considerable resources and funds into it at that time. We added more to that yesterday. The result of that is further diversification and, in the long run, a stronger agricultural economy both on the farm and in rural western Canada.

[Rick Borotsik, Progressive Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister obviously did not admit to his mishandling of it but he should have.

We know we have a grain handling problem right now in transportation. Will he commit to fixing the transportation problem and throwing his full and immediate support behind the implementation of the Kroeger report recommendations?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member knows that there has been an ongoing consultation and discussion process with Justice Estey, with Mr. Kroeger, with the industry and with everyone involved in grain transportation across the country.

The government's intention is to make some positive changes to strengthen again in another way western agriculture on farms and in rural communities.

Kenora—Rainy River

[Rahim Jaffer, Reform, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, in the riding of the minister of Indian affairs there is a different definition of the winning conditions. If people donate to the minister's campaign they win big. If they are members of the Liberal executive and donate to his campaign, the rules will be bent to ensure that they win big.

Businesses in his riding donated just over $16,000 to the 1997 election campaign. That is a fair amount of money, but the return on the investment was a staggering $2.5 million. Why does the Indian affairs minister think that it is okay to repay the generosity of private donors with public funds?

[The Speaker]

Order, please. We are going a bit far in the allegations today. If the hon. Deputy Prime Minister wishes to address this question I will permit it.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is making an outrageous allegation. He is saying that there is a direct connection between donations and government funds.

I challenge the hon. member to say that outside the House and take responsibility for alleging what is conduct contrary to the criminal code. I suggest he back that up with facts here and outside the House. If he cannot do that, as I know he cannot, then let him withdraw those remarks and take the blame for misusing the privileges of the House as he is doing.

[Eric C. Lowther, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the president of the Liberal Party in the Indian affairs minister's riding got a taxpayer funded loan of $150,000. Lucky him. The trouble is that the agency that gave him the loan limits its loans to a maximum of $125,000. He got $25,000 more than is allowed.

Why do prominent Liberals in the Indian affairs minister's riding get more money than anyone else is entitled to?

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I think the thrust of the questions is such that these are pretty strong allegations. If the hon. minister or anyone else wants to respond to that I will permit it, but I prefer we stay away from the party stuff and stick with the policies for which these ministers are responsible.

[Andy Mitchell, Liberal, Secretary of State (Rural Development)(Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern Ontario)]

Mr. Speaker, once again that member and that party are absolutely wrong.

First, treasury board guidelines and the agreement signed between the federal government and the particular local agency allow for loans over $125,000. If the hon. member did his job and actually did his research instead of just reading the paper, he would have known that.

By the way, that is a loan given on a commercial basis with repayment and with an interest rate much higher than what someone would pay in the private sector.

Human Resources Development

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in the riding of Rosemont affair, the minister claimed that no premises were available in Montreal. The owner, Mr. Goldberger, was furious and denied this, saying that his decision was strictly a business one.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister tell us what reasons were given for this business decision, for leaving Montreal to go to Saint-Maurice? What other business is involved?

[The Speaker]

I do not know that the government can know what went on in that person's head.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. If the hon. Deputy Prime Minister wants to answer the question, I give him permission.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think the hon. member's question is a matter for the government. It is impossible for me to know what went on in Mr. Goldberger's head. The hon. member must ask Mr. Goldberger and ask him what he meant by “business decision”.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Mitis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Goldberger says Confections Saint-Élie signed a lease in March 1998. Confections Saint-Élie also got grants in the summer of 1997, which the Prime Minister boasted about in his election flyer.

Is this the business in question with Mr. Goldberger?

[The Speaker]

Once again I do not know how we can get inside the head of someone else. If the parliamentary secretary wants to answer the question, go ahead.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with you. Opposition members continue to ask questions about this file when I have already assured them that departmental officials are looking into it to see if there are any irregularities.

I would like to say, though, that with 30,000 projects across the country with a variety of partners we should be looking at these things as the best efforts of groups of Canadians, whether they be business persons or non-profit organization members, to create economic activity. We have leveraged $2.7 million in private sector partnership—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Peace River.

[Charlie Penson, Reform, Peace River, AB]

Mr. Speaker, what a surprise. The human resources minister got it wrong again. The minister's famous list has Aquilium Software Corporation listed as bankrupt. That came as quite a shock to the company. It is alive and well, and frankly must be very glad the human resources minister is not its accountant.

Is it the policy of the minister to deem companies bankrupt so they can qualify for even more HRDC money?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the Reform Party does not know how to accept good news when it finds it, it is so busy thinking of the bad news.

The list we released on February 21 includes the status of bankrupt and closed companies as we knew them when the funding was stopped. It is quite possible and to be hoped that some of these companies were able to get back on their feet and are now successful. The department would not have tracked their status after the project had been stopped.

[Keith Martin, Reform, Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC]

Mr. Speaker, good news does not constitute driving a company under with kindness. The HRD minister took a billion dollars of taxpayer money and bungled it.

Now they are spending money, giving it to companies and telling the world that they are bankrupt. What kind of mismanagement is that? Is it a policy of the minister to kill and drive viable businesses under with kindness?

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I think that is the most ridiculous nonsense I have ever heard in the House. We are in the business of creating economic activity—

[The Speaker]

Let us tone down the rhetoric on both sides a bit.

[Bonnie Brown, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

The government is certainly not in the business of driving companies under. The government is in the business of creating opportunities for Canadians by leveraging private sector money with government money in order to create opportunities.