House of Commons Hansard #43 of the 36th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was referendum.

Topics

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, I know the hon. member does not care about the people who receive this money.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Chrétien Liberal Saint-Maurice, QC

Listen to them. I know they want to cut the taxes of the rich and do not want to give money to the poor, but I will not change my policy on that.

The administrator of the Alberta branch of the Canadian Paraplegic Association said “The bad press is hurting us as an organization. The money we received was very well spent. We employed 200 people, with various levels of disabilities, all across the province”. I find it very hard to believe—

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member for Calgary—Nose Hill.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, we have just seen a classic example of the old bait and switch technique: Instead of answering to the issue, you try to pretend the issue is something different. The issue is a billion dollar boondoggle involving public money.

This minister has not proven to be very adept at answering questions and some of the answers she has given are very troubling. For example, on December 16, 1999 she said “No moneys flowed until appropriate approvals were in place”, but her own departmental audit had already informed her that was not the case. In fact, this minister was not candid with the House.

Will she stand in her place and resign?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

The Speaker

I know it is the first day back, but we are going a little bit over in both the questions and the answers. I know we are going to close it up. The Right Hon. Prime Minister.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's riding is receiving money. Perhaps I should apologize because a Bible society in her riding received a couple of thousand dollars in grants. They must be good Christians there, so they are preaching the Bible.

For the edification of the hon. member, I have a quotation by the co-ordinator of the Beddington Heights Community Association referring to comments made by the hon. member. The quote reads:

To say that they are a waste of money when the member has not been in these doors—she has no concept of what goes on, so it's sort of probably an empty statement.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, if public moneys were misspent, if they were uncontrolled and if Canadians did not get value for dollar, it does not matter where that happened. It is wrong.

Somebody should have been minding the store and that somebody will not even stand in her place and give an account of her stewardship of our money. She hides behind the Prime Minister.

I ask why a minister, who cannot even defend her own department, will not resign?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Brant Ontario

Liberal

Jane Stewart LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, I am not here to tell you that everything is run perfectly in my department. That is why I am working with the department to implement a significantly strengthened regime that will ensure we manage the grants and contributions in my department effectively.

I want the House to understand that a billion dollars has not disappeared. We know where every cheque has gone. It is held by educational institutions. It is held by community organizations, by individuals and small business people in the hon. member's riding, in her seatmate's riding and in the ridings of all the members of parliament in the House.

Bill C-20Oral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, a number of groups in Quebec are demanding that Quebecers' views on Bill C-20, which sets out the ground rules for any future referendum in Quebec, be heard.

We have learned that the government House leader wants to act quickly and that he is pulling out all the stops to speed up the bill's passage through the House.

Given the importance of this bill to democracy in Quebec, will the Prime Minister promise to set up a travelling committee so that Quebecers' views on Bill C-20 can be heard?

Bill C-20Oral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, the committee is making the required decisions. Obviously, there will be hearings here in Parliament.

If Jacques Parizeau wants to appear before the committee—Mr. Bouchard would probably be very happy to hear what he thinks, as would we, particularly since we are not very far from Quebec—he is welcome.

We went to British Columbia because it was very far away, but it is just a trip across the river to Ottawa.

Bill C-20Oral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, if it is just a trip across the river, I imagine the committee could manage it too.

What was good for British Columbia, because British Columbians were consulted, even though the government in Victoria was in agreement with the bill, should also be for Quebec. Why, when there was consultation for the Nisga'a treaty, is the government refusing to do the same in the case of Bill C-20? Is what is good for British Columbia not good for Quebec?

Could he explain how he arrived at this strange decision, without resorting to geographic technicalities and nonsense?

Bill C-20Oral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, the bill applies to all provinces in Canada.

If there are hearings in Quebec, the committee will have to travel to all ten provinces. This is a bill that applies to any province that might, one day, wish to leave Canada. If the member wants there to be hearings, there will have to be hearings in all the provinces. In this House, initially, only my party supported the measure. Since then, the NDP members, the Reform Party members and half the Progressive Conservative Party members have changed their position.

Bill C-20Oral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Daniel Turp Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Mr. Speaker, in a letter to the leader of the government, Quebec civil society organizations asked for the right to appear before the committee that will be struck to review Bill C-20.

Can the Prime Minister guarantee that these groups will be heard by the committee and that, as requested by these groups, a democratic consultation process will take place?

Bill C-20Oral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Saint-Laurent—Cartierville Québec

Liberal

Stéphane Dion LiberalPresident of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs

Mr. Speaker, it will be up to the legislative committee to decide on how it will proceed.

Is it possible to be so disconnected from what is going on in Quebec?

Bill C-20Oral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Bill C-20Oral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Liberal

Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC

Except for the tough guys from the Bloc Quebecois and the PQ government, are there many Quebecers who give priority to the issue of a referendum on secession?

It is obvious that they do not even manage to get a large following with their own Bill 99. Except for the “mothball clubs” of the Société Saint-Jean-Baptiste, they are not getting a lot of people.

Bill C-20Oral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Daniel Turp Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Mr. Speaker, if there is someone here who is disconnected from Quebec it is the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

Between 55% and 60% of Quebecers do not want to hear about his bill. Even the pollsters from his own party told him so last week.

By establishing the legislative committee that unions, students and women are asking for, is the minister's true objective not to ultimately prevent these groups and individuals from testifying? Is the minister not in fact saying “Quiet! We will not hear from you”?

Bill C-20Oral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Saint-Laurent—Cartierville Québec

Liberal

Stéphane Dion LiberalPresident of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs

Mr. Speaker, in recent weeks, I had the opportunity to talk to many Quebecers. The general impression is that, except for a few individuals, most people in Quebec feel that what we are doing is perfectly reasonable: that it is reasonable to ask for a clear question on separation before negotiating separation and that it is reasonable not to let the smallest of majority break up the country.

Given that this is found to be reasonable, it becomes totally unreasonable to want to ban the Canadian flag from city halls and school boards.

HealthOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, this is the first day of parliament in the new millennium. Canadians face the political fight of their lives. When it comes to health care, we have a choice: to move forward or to go back to the two tier Americanized, privatized health care that Canadians reject. When it comes to fighting Harris and Klein, we have a problem: a federal government that says one thing and does the opposite.

Canadians want to know why the government wants to be the deadbeat dad of health care.

HealthOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, I have stated very clearly that the five conditions of the national health act should be respected.

I am pleased to report that last week it was discussed by the premiers and they all agreed that the five conditions of the national health act should be maintained.

Last year we made a very special effort to help the problem of health. I will quote for the hon. member somebody who said, “I am very pleased with what the government has done and I think the federal government should be congratulated”. That was Mr. Roy Romanow on February 16, 1999.

HealthOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister knows that the premier said there has to be complete restoration of the health care system.

Canadians have heard these words from the government. They have heard the feigned concern but they have also seen and felt the pain of what the government has done. It has ripped billions out of health care. It has reduced the federal contribution to health care spending from 50%, the 50:50 partnership on which health care depended, down to 13%. It has opened the door to privatized two tier health care.

Why does the government want to be the deadbeat dad of health care?

HealthOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, there is such a thing as tax points that are given to the provinces. It is extremely important because provinces that are rich receive fewer tax points than provinces that are poor. That is in order to make sure that all provinces have the same opportunity. The hon. member forgot to mention that. Perhaps I could quote someone after the Minister of Finance's last budget. Joy MacPhail, B.C. finance minister at the time of the 1999 budget, said, “This is welcome news, certainly for us. We can now join together with Ottawa and address the problems of the health care system”.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Jean Dubé Progressive Conservative Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Mr. Speaker, on January 19 the minister released an altered document to the Canadian public, an internal audit whose title page was dated January 2000. We know now the audit was completed much earlier, on October 5. As a matter of principle, no minister of the crown should withhold information. Will the minister do the honourable thing and resign?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Brant Ontario

Liberal

Jane Stewart LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, I am not here to argue dates with the hon. member but let us make it clear. I have nothing to hide. I am the one who received the audit that said there were improvements that had to be made in my department. I am the one who insisted on the strong management report response from my department. I made the audit, its data and the management response public. We are going to implement a very cohesive six point plan to ensure that this problem never happens again.