Mr. Speaker, I understood the debate would be over at 5.45 p.m. I really appreciate having this chance to speak.
Bill C-222 was presented to the House by the member for Wild Rose. If this bill passes, it will put in place the position of ombudsman for aboriginal people to go to if they are having difficulties dealing with their leadership or a band dealing with another or situations like that. The member is to be commended for bringing this piece of legislation forward.
This was one of the recommendations of the Lakeland aboriginal task force which I set up in my constituency in 1997 shortly after the election. After the election, the new part of my constituency took in eight Indian reserves and four Metis settlements for a total aboriginal population of about 30,000 people. I immediately started getting phone calls from people who had real concerns about issues like housing, alcohol and drug abuse on their reserve and the lack of accountability as they saw it on the part of chiefs and councils on their reserves. It was not just one or two isolated calls.
As a result, I set up a task force made up of four aboriginal people and myself. Over the next several months we met with people in a three step process. First, we met confidentially, one on one. Second, we sent out questionnaires and had several returned. Third, we had three public meetings in the constituency. Some very interesting things came out of this process.
I will refer particularly to the recommendation which deals directly with what we are talking about. That is recommendation number four under the category of democratic accountability. It says that “the government must establish an arm's length body, an ombudsman or agency to hear and act on the confidential concerns of aboriginal Canadians”. This proposal came from people who made presentations to us throughout this process. It was a recommendation that was almost unanimously supported by the hundreds of people who took part in this process.
The suggestion came up because there were many people who felt alienated from their band or settlement leadership, as well as from the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. Some speakers at this meetings said they did not feel comfortable in approaching Indian Affairs and Northern Development because they had seen people who had felt negative repercussions when they did so in the past. Even when they approached Indian affairs in confidence, often the exact message that they took to it got back to the chief and council. They did not feel they could trust Indian affairs to keep their confidential issues confidential. That is why they felt they needed an ombudsman.
In many cases, they felt the problem was with the leadership of the chiefs and councils. That is not the situation in every case, nor would I ever say that is the case. However, it is a very common problem and we cannot ignore that.
The Liberal member who spoke previously said that it was very unusual to have problems of the lack of accountability on reserves. He either does not understand the reality or he is trying to minimize the problem. It is a very common problem across the country. It is not only the eight reserves in my constituency.
This is what was said in one presentation:
“A lot of people in my community have been discriminated against (by chief and council),” said one participant. “Where do you go in your community for help? Higher government just refers it down to the local elected officials. We need something for grassroots people who can't speak out right now, because they know there is a price to be paid. An advocate, or an arm's-length agency. A hearer of all injustices within the aboriginal community.”
That is what this person said when presenting to the aboriginal task force.
They did acknowledge that the logistics of setting up the ombudsman position might be quite difficult, but it is something they felt was worth the effort. That was a point which was made very clear.
They suggested that the ombudsman should be in place for a time period very similar to what this private member's bill suggests. That is part of the reason I suggest this is a good bill.
The minister of Indian affairs on several occasions has said in the House that he really cannot deal with issues when they arise on reserves. He cannot deal with problems on reserves because that is the responsibility of the leadership on the reserves.
It is an interesting point because the first thing is that the minister of Indian affairs absolutely has responsibility for what happens on reserves. It is clear in Canadian law. He is abdicating his responsibility.
Second, how is it that the chiefs and council members are going to deal with problems brought to them when the problem in many cases is themselves? It is the chief and council. That is where so many members who presented before the task force made the point as strongly as they possibly could.
“It seems like a hopeless situation”, they said. “We can see a situation where our council, including the chief, is misspending money. We know this is happening and we have nowhere to go. We see situations where we know elections have been unfair and we can point to particular problems in the election process, but we feel we have nowhere to go.”
This is the type of feeling which came up again and again. I believe this ombudsman position will help deal with part of that problem.
I congratulate the member for Wild Rose for bringing this forth. I know that he brought this bill forth because he heard from grassroots aboriginal people right across the country, including the members in the gallery. He heard from them that the situation is desperate, that they do need someone to go to, that they cannot always go to leadership because in many cases the leadership is the problem.
What does the minister of Indian affairs suggest when we bring these problems to him? He says, “Well, you know, you have to leave it up to the band because we have self-government”. He talks as if the bands in this country are a separate level of government, that they are somehow an equal government, to be treated equally with the federal government. That is the way he talks.
When we raise these issues, he says that he has no way he can deal with the problem. He says that the answer to the problem is self-government and more responsibility to chiefs and councils. I believe that that is the case. That is part of the answer, more ability on the part of leadership to deal with the problem, but in terms of fiscal accountability, electoral accountability and fair elections on reserves, we can only go to a system where there is more self-government where these issues are dealt with. They have not been dealt with.
It is interesting what people at one of the public meetings said on exactly this issue. One member speaking at one of the public meetings, and this was covered on television, said, “Ron Irwin has sent a memo out to reserves saying that no one would be forced to take self-government until everyone was ready. We had a referendum and said no. Now Jane Stewart, we are feeling, is being pushed into it.”
At a public meeting of about 70 people in St. Paul, Alberta, I asked this question. I asked, “How many of you think that we should be moving to a system of self-government now?”. One hand out of the 70 went up.
I asked the question another way: “How many of you feel we should not be going to self-government until the problems of accountability are dealt with?” All the hands went up except one.
Self-government is not the answer until accountability is put in place. This ombudsman will help deal with the situation of a lack of accountability. I applaud the member and I will support this bill. I hope everyone in the House will support this bill.
