House of Commons Hansard #99 of the 36th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was information.

Topics

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:15 p.m.

The Speaker

Order, please.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, the minister's own departmental audits talk about inconsistent security measures and security risks not being appropriately addressed. We have a minister that cannot keep personal information secure. Why is the minister not concerned?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Brant Ontario

Liberal

Jane Stewart LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, in the context of this issue, let us again look at what the privacy commissioner said about the men and women in my department. He said “We have over at HRDC right now some very well motivated public servants who are being very careful”. He understands that the men and women in my department appreciate the issue of privacy.

I want to confirm to the House that indeed we are ensuring that the information we use is encrypted, that it is secure. I would note that in March a deputy of my department wrote to the privacy commissioner and asked him to join us in a working group to ensure that we continue to provide privacy into the future.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

The Speaker

I am sure we all want to hear the questions and the answers. I would encourage members to please keep their voices down when a member is on his or her feet.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, what the privacy commissioner did was ring some very loud alarm bells and Canadians are listening. I hope the minister is.

The minister's database contains the address, income, employment history, marital status, living arrangements and health history of every single Canadian. In the hands of private business such information could keep someone from getting insurance or a job. Imagine this information in the hands of criminals because of lax security.

Will the minister immediately end her practice of sharing private information about Canadians without their permission?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Brant Ontario

Liberal

Jane Stewart LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Again, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is doing nothing but trying to scare Canadians. This information is used only for research. It will not be sold.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, we have learned some troubling things from the privacy commissioner's latest report, which says that HRDC has thousands of pieces of information on thousands of people.

The commissioner points out that HRDC is more concerned about protecting the security of the information collected than the privacy of individual citizens.

Will the Prime Minister tell the House why this file was created. Why is there such a file?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, I think that if one reads the commissioner's entire report, one will see that he says clearly that he thinks there is a problem there. He is ready to discuss it.

Everyone knows that the department has had this information for a long time, since well before we took office. It is a question of information.

My information is to the effect that, as early as March, the department and the privacy commissioner began discussions with a view to taking the necessary action to prevent any abuses with respect to this file.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Bloc

Gilles Duceppe Bloc Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, unlike the minister responsible, the Prime Minister admits that there is a problem. That is already something.

What I do not understand is that the alarm was sounded two years ago. Through the privacy commissioner, the government has known that there was a problem for two years now.

How could the Prime Minister stand by and do nothing when he has known about the existence of such a file, with the potential problems, for two years? Why did he sit tight, take no decision and allow such a state of affairs to continue? Could I hear from the Prime Minister on this?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:20 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member read the entire report, all that the commissioner said was that he saw a certain problem. He said he had already got in touch with the department in March in an attempt to resolve the situation.

He said he fully realized that the department has to have this sort of data, that in general the department and the other departments involved complied with the Parliament of Canada Act.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, the commissioner also said, and I quote his report, that “Human Resources Development Canada had a comprehensive, permanent and, to all intents, invisible citizen profile” although the commissioner had already made recommendations to the minister in September 1998, which the minister did not accept.

Given that the commissioner considered the responses of the minister unsatisfactory, how can she justify her refusal to take the commissioner's recommendations into account?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Brant Ontario

Liberal

Jane Stewart LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, we have taken action with regard to the commissioner's recommendations.

It is very important to note that the information is secure, it is encrypted and access to data that is not encrypted is available to only six employees in the department.

I would also note that the commissioner recommended that the information contained in these files should be managed within a contained timeframe, and we have done that.

I also remind the hon. member that the Prime Minister said that the deputy wrote to the privacy commissioner in March and asked him to join us in a working group to ensure that in the future we will continue to improve the privacy of this information for the protection—

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member for Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, are we to understand that the Minister of Human Resources Development is accepting her department's interpretation of the Privacy Act, an interpretation that is wrong according to the privacy commissioner?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Brant Ontario

Liberal

Jane Stewart LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, again, we have an hon. member confusing the facts. The privacy commissioner made it very clear that we are working within the law. There is nothing illegal here. We are complying with the law.

The issues of privacy are tremendously important to Canadians, particularly these days with changing technology. That is why we are working and want to work with him to ensure that in the ongoing processes we have an administration in place that makes sense to him and to Canadians.

EducationOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance who perhaps shares some of our concerns about the adverse impacts of higher interest rates, for example, on students who were forced to take out huge loans to pursue the education they need in the 21st century.

When Canadians can buy a car with 1.3% financing or a chesterfield with 0% financing, why has the government fixed the cost of education at prime plus 2.5%, which today means—

EducationOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. Minister of Finance.

EducationOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, let me answer, at least in the time permitted, the first part of the question in terms of students.

The hon. member will know that in the 1998 budget we brought down a $7.5 billion contribution to education, including loans to students. In the most recent budget, there was not only the creation of 2,000 research chairs, but we lifted the exemption on scholarships from taxation from $500 to $3,000. We have brought in a program that will enable students to handle their loans.

In other words, the focus on education has been very important for this government in order to help students—

EducationOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. leader of the New Democratic Party.

EducationOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, let us talk reality. The reality is that for every dollar in new educational initiatives, this government has slashed $2 from the post-secondary education system, with the result that student debtloads have more than tripled.

Other governments around the world are increasing their investments in education. Why is Canada mortgaging our children's future?

EducationOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

LaSalle—Émard Québec

Liberal

Paul Martin LiberalMinister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, the premise of the hon. member's question is simply bunk. The fact is that since this government took office we have put more money into helping students finance their education and more into ensuring that post-secondary educational institutions have the labs and facilities in which to do it. We have increased the transfers to the provinces every single year for the last four years.

I would certainly stand in this House and ask the provinces to continue to put more money into education and to join with the federal government in a partnership to help us build the strongest economy that we have ever seen.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Peter MacKay Progressive Conservative Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS

Mr. Speaker, the leadership race has begun.

The privacy commissioner's report highlights that HRDC has been collecting massive amounts of personal information on millions of Canadians, including but not limited to tax information, marital status, employment and social history. One concern is that the information is available on one central computer.

Canadians have borne witness to the HRD minister's mismanagement of over a billion dollars. With this record of bungling, how can Canadians trust the minister to protect their most personal of information?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Brant Ontario

Liberal

Jane Stewart LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, I find it a very confusing question because it was indeed in 1985 when this process was begun. It was under that member's government that this undertaking began. Is he saying now that it is not the right thing to do?