Debates of May 2nd, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is wrong. Let us recall what the auditor general said about the action plan. He said that the action plan prepared by the department represented an exceptional response. What is good for the auditor general is good for me.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general was referring to immediate needs.

But the six point plan was severely criticized by Deloitte & Touche, experts to whom she turned, and she published a new plan, which is supposedly the same as the draft, the same day as the study. She ignored the experts' advice.

In the situation in which she now finds herself, lurching from one gaffe to another, how can the minister ignore the advice of experts she herself has hired?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Again, Mr. Speaker, the leader of the Bloc is wrong. He should take time to do some research.

Deloitte & Touche was asked to look at our plan. They made recommendations and we implemented them.

They said that we needed greater cohesiveness to orchestrate the various actions in an integrated fashion. What did we do? We established a grants and contributions team to ensure that we meet their recommendations.

They said that we needed assurance that funds had been transferred according to program requirements. What did we do? We put in place a departmental directive on the issuance of payments, which requires sign-off by senior executives to ensure that the payments are made appropriately.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, let us get serious. Deloitte & Touche considered that the plan does not get to the root of the problem and saw its recommendations shelved.

What does the minister, who has hidden behind this plan for the past six months, have to say now that we know her plan does not get to the bottom of things? Is she refusing to act on the recommendations of these chartered accountants?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know where the hon. member was. I thought he was at committee today where the representative of Deloitte & Touche said “Yes, indeed, the department came to us and paid us to look at the recommended plan. We gave them advice and the department implemented our recommendations”. What could be better?

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I was on the committee, and at no point did the firm representative say that his recommendations had been followed. He did not know.

The minister is obviously overwhelmed by the crisis at the Human Resources Development Canada.

Mr. Prime Minister, I appeal to you—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Remarks and questions must always be addressed to the Chair.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I appeal to the Prime Minister to see whether the only way to regain control is not to implement the plan of the Bloc, a very simple two point plan: the resignation of the minister and the launching of a public and independent inquiry.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, all the members on this side of the House and I have great confidence in the abilities and the hard work of the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Health

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, last evening I stood with Friends of Medicare on the steps of the Alberta legislature. I stood together with people who believe that Canadians should receive health care when they need it, regardless of their financial circumstances or where they happen to live.

Sadly, the Prime Minister was not there, the Minister of Health was not there and the Minister of Justice was not there. No representative of the government was there.

There is no disgrace in standing together with Friends of Medicare. Why was the health minister not there?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, the position of the NDP on health is always the same. First, they believe that the status quo is sufficient; second, they seem to believe that simply adding more money is enough. That is not right.

Everybody else in this country, the government and even the Canadian Alliance, has put ideas on the table to change health care because we believe that is the way to improve it. Why has the NDP not come forward with a single new idea to reform and improve health care in this country? Why will NDP members not join with us in making an effort to improve medicare?

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, in case the health minister has not noticed, Premier Klein has now laid out the final form of the health privatization bill for Albertans. He has now invoked closure.

The faint hope of Canadians that Alberta's premier would actually listen to Albertans and kill the bill is now fast fading.

I ask the Prime Minister, besides watching from the sidelines while health care goes two tier, what plans does the federal government have to take action and stand for medicare?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have said hundreds of times in the House of Commons that every piece of legislation passed by any government has to meet the five conditions of the national health care act of Canada.

If they do not, we will just do what we have done before. We were the first government ever to cut funds to a province that did not follow the rules that were established by this parliament.

Public Works And Government Services

[Gilles Bernier, Progressive Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general reported in November that 90% of untendered government contracts should have been put up for bids. I checked and found that 3,186 contracts awarded by public works went to companies that donated to Liberal Party candidates in the 1997 election and 54% of these were untendered.

Can the Minister of Public Works and Government Services explain why his department is giving so many untendered contracts to Liberal Party supporters?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, most of the contracts go to public tender. Some contracts depend on the amount, on the circumstance and whether they are sole source, but it is a very minimal amount. More than two-thirds of all the contracts of not only my department but all Government of Canada departments are through public tender.

[Gilles Bernier, Progressive Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general said that 90% of untendered contracts would not pass public scrutiny. Public works has put three-quarters of a billion dollars into the pockets of companies that donated to Liberal candidates, most of them untendered.

Will the minister invite the auditor general to review in detail all the untendered contracts awarded by public works and report back to the House here in parliament?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the auditor general always reviews what we do in government. We do not have to invite him, he is already there. When the auditor general makes his report, parliament takes account of what he reports.

Organized Crime

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, operation sidewinder was a joint RCMP-CSIS task force that laid out in great detail how Asian crime gangs and Chinese spy agencies were infiltrating Canada.

Yesterday the parliamentary secretary claimed that operation sidewinder had not been shut down. In fact it was shut down in 1997.

Why is there so little concern about national security on that side of the House that the parliamentary secretary would not even be briefed with information about operation sidewinder?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague is incorrect. It was not shut down at all. It was a study and it was completed. In fact, when a study is complete, that is the end of the study.

[Jim Abbott, Reform, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

That is a very interesting, Mr. Speaker, because in a letter from SIRC it says “The committee's review will examine project sidewinder, including its termination and whether CSIS has acted—”. SIRC is looking into the termination.

How can the minister stand in the House and say that it is not terminated when the security intelligence review committee is looking into its termination?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague is no doubt well aware that both the RCMP and CSIS have indicated that it was an excellent report. SIRC is reviewing this report as it has the authority to review any report.

Human Resources Development

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, following a request submitted to the Department of Human Resources Development to obtain the invoices justifying the grants to Placeteco, we were told that we had to go the access to information route. We did that and there are no invoices on file.

The minister justified these grants by referring to the existence of invoices. Why is she hiding these invoices?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member has made an access request, the information will be made available.

This question gives me a chance to update the House on the number of access to information requests that the department has received. We are now up to 1,000.

We have a lot of work to do to provide the information that different groups want and we will do that to the best of our ability.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, to make sure the minister understands clearly, I repeat that we submitted our request under the Access to Information Act. We contacted her department. We used every possible avenue. We did not see anything that looked remotely like an invoice.

My question to the minister is: Are these not public documents, documents on which she relies to approve grants, and do we not have the right to see these invoices? We want to see them.