House of Commons Hansard #89 of the 36th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was flag.

Topics

Oath Of Allegiance To The Flag Of Canada ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:15 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Madam Speaker, on February 18, I asked a question to the Minister of Human Resources Development regarding the scandal at Human Resources Development Canada.

The question—this is rather paradoxical today—was about the fact that the minister kept hiding behind her six point action plan. On February 18, we did not know that a professional opinion provided by a well known firm of chartered accountants, Deloitte & Touche, said that the six point plan is a good approach to settle short term issues, but it does not in any way respond to the in depth problems at Human Resources Development Canada.

Since then, we learned that the Deloitte & Touche report strongly criticized the government. We did not find, in the six point plan, adjustments that reflect these observations.

The department's website tells us that advice was received from the Treasury Board on the six point plan and that the recommendations were followed.

The government received the recommendations of the auditor general on the immediate changes required to the plan and followed them, but in the case of Deloitte & Touche, whose recommendations were that the plan would not resolve the substantial problems, the government does not indicate that it has followed them.

We are therefore looking at a situation where the question I asked on April 18 is even more relevant today. Faced with this situation, we can only wonder why HRDC continues to defend this six point plan, why it refuses that an independent public inquiry be held and why it does not make the connection between the deplorable situation, the lax approach and the scandal at HRDC and the use of public funds for partisan purposes.

Not only is there a major administrative problem but, if we look at the three years of the transitional job fund, during the 1997 electoral period, 54% of the money available during this period was spent in Quebec, and in ridings represented by Bloc Quebecois members the figure even rose to 63%.

These important clues are telling us that the program was used for the Liberal Party of Canada's own benefit instead of helping citizens in Quebec and Canada who should be able to avail themselves of these programs.

It is quite sad because job creation programs per se are a good thing. The Bloc has always maintained that the government should use this money to level out discrepancies between areas with a low unemployment rate and the others. But the current behaviour of the government has harmed the operation of these programs to such a degree that they are now discredited and that their opponents are gathering support. In my view, this is unacceptable.

The current government is to be blamed entirely for this sad state of affairs. It is the Prime Minister who masterminded this system whereby public money is used for partisan purposes.

I would like to ask the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources Development why, three months after the HRDC scandal came to light, corrective measures are yet to be taken to remedy the situation and cure the cancer that is destroying HRDC.

Oath Of Allegiance To The Flag Of Canada ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:20 p.m.

Oakville Ontario

Liberal

Bonnie Brown LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development

Madam Speaker, I must say that if the member opposite questions why we are still talking about it, we are still talking about it because the opposition members seem to be obsessed with it. That is why we are still talking about it. In addition to their wanting to talk about it, their motivation is probably because the newspapers are covering what they are saying about it. That is why we are still talking about it.

One journalist in particular has talked about the trivialization of the House of Commons with the persistence in talking about this single subject which the member insists on calling a scandal. Is it a scandal when in one of our programs we had 10,000 projects which probably interacted with about 100,000 people when we consider the boards of directors and other investors? In that particular project a year after the start-up of these businesses, 95% of them were still going ahead. That is a better rate than a bank. When a bank comes in with capital for a new business or an expansion, its success rate one year later is usually that only 77% of its projects are still alive.

I do not call it a scandal when the Government of Canada sponsors projects that have a better success rate than those sponsored by a bank. I think that is a darn good record.

As far as the Deloitte & Touche comment on the minister's six point plan to fix the problems at HRDC, one has to think about the order in which things happened. Officials of the department developed a plan and they presented it to Deloitte & Touche. Deloitte & Touche was hired to comment on the first draft of the plan, as was the auditor general. All the various players made comments.

Deloitte & Touche has not seen the revised plan because it was not hired to come back and comment on it. The hon. member is quoting from the first set of comments and neither he nor Deloitte & Touche really know whether in fact those suggestions were incorporated or not.

Oath Of Allegiance To The Flag Of Canada ActAdjournment Proceedings

6:20 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

Order, please. I must interrupt the hon. member at this point.

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6.24 p.m.)