Debates of May 31st, 2000

Human Resources Development

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Calgary—Nose Hill.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we appreciate the justice minister's attempt to get the HRDC minister off the hook, but I read from the Employment Insurance Act, section 127, which states: “The following information shall be made available only to the Commission and the employees of the Department”, and that is, “any information obtained by the Commission or the Department from any persons under this Act”.

The whole section is titled “Confidential information”, yet we find out, to the shock of Canadians, that all of this is being published for the view of anyone at the click of a mouse on the web.

How on earth can the minister justify this breach of confidentiality?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. minister responsible for HRDC has pointed out, these decisions have been available for a very long time in hard copy.

These decisions, as is the case with many, many others, be they administrative tribunals or court decisions, are available on the web.

There is absolutely nothing improper in relation to that. In fact, the supreme court and other courts in this country have said that openness and transparency are fundamental elements of the integrity of our justice system.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the HRDC minister owes Canadians an explanation about why she has made them vulnerable by putting personal details of their lives on the web, including their address, work situation, living arrangements and family circumstances. This information is published on the web. It is not kept in a file somewhere; it is out on the worldwide web.

Why were Canadians not told that their dealings with HRDC would be published on the web?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, again I want to remind the hon. member that these are copies of paper decisions made by the courts.

I have also said and I will repeat that I have asked my officials to look at this format to ensure that it is an appropriate use of the Internet.

Canada Information Office

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Minister of Public Works and Government Services said that all CIO contracts for the Quebec tour by federal ministers had been put out to tender, as though the guidelines were always closely observed by the CIO.

Will the minister therefore explain to us why 21% of the $22.5 million in contracts awarded by the CIO between April 1997 and December 1999 went out without any tenders?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the House that for the past two years any contract over $25,000 has been competitive.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I was talking about calls for tender—these are not necessarily competitive because there are a number of bizarre criteria in what they call the competition.

Could the government therefore explain to us how it is possible under the contracting-out guidelines to award $258,000 in various contracts to Stratégies et Communication, and to Groupe Cible, without any calls for tender? Is it because these two outfits are directed by a former Liberal candidate or for reasons of state? What is the competitive criterion in this case?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat, contracts, specifically those for the tour mentioned by the member, were put out to tender.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it seems that Treasury Board rules regarding the awarding of contracts are flawed in several ways.

How can the President of the Treasury Board justify the fact that her department's rules regarding the awarding of contracts are so permissive?

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, we have a policy for awarding government contracts that must be complied with by all the departments of this government, and the Canada Information Office does comply with that policy.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is very good.

In that case, how does the Minister of Public Works explain that, in January 1998, the firm of Tremblay-Guitett was awarded a $105,000 contract without any call for tenders, to provide advice in the area of communications? Does this example not squarely contradict the minister's statement that the Canada Information Office complies with the contract awarding rules?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, immediately upon being appointed minister responsible for Quebec, I gave very clear directives to the CIO to the effect that it had to comply with Treasury Board policies. Any contract of more than $25,000 must be awarded through a competitive bidding process, through a call for tenders, and this is what the CIO did.

Health

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Right Hon. Prime Minister, who was a colleague of Monique Bégin when she brought in the Canada Health Act in 1984.

The former minister of health has now called on the Liberal government to bring in amendments to federal legislation governing health care in this country to stop the privatization of medicare.

If the Prime Minister is not willing to listen to the NDP, would he be willing to listen to his former colleague and do what we have been asking for a long time, bring in legislation to stop privatization?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, Madam Bégin did not suggest amending, she suggested new legislation, parallel legislation.

In fact, I met with her the other morning and we had an interesting discussion. She is a person whose views I very much respect. I reminded her that we are in the process of working with provincial partners to renew medicare to find an answer to make sure the principles of the Canada Health Act are respected as we go forward with a sustainable health care system.

We welcome good ideas from any source, and I will work with my provincial partners to make certain that we do what is right to keep public medicare safe in Canada.

[Bill Blaikie, NDP, Winnipeg—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I do not care what it is called, whether it is called parallel or new or amendments. The fact is that the former minister of health has called for changes to the legislation governing medicare in this country, which is exactly what we have called for, changes that would stop privatization.

Why is the minister waiting? Is he waiting for the federal election? Is he waiting to put a package in place as part of the strategy for the Liberals? Medicare needs to be saved now, not at the convenience of the Liberal Party. Let us have some action now, as the former minister of health has asked for.

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we did not wait to have a health budget in February 1999. We did not wait to increase by 25% the transfers to provinces for health over the last four years. We did not wait to invite health ministers from across the country to join me at the table to talk about concrete action to save medicare.

The government has no lessons to learn from the NDP on health. The NDP has come into the House with no constructive ideas on how to change medicare. We will see to it that public medicare is safeguarded in this country.

Canadian Forces

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday morning the sensitive investigation task force reported on four areas of horrible conduct on the part of the Canadian forces.

The Minister of National Defence told reporters that he felt strongly that action had to be taken.

Will the Minister of National Defence inform the House what action he has personally taken on this file since this information was brought to his attention?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the report from the investigators is most disturbing. The actions which they have outlined are disgraceful. They will not be tolerated within the Canadian forces.

I discussed this matter yesterday with the chief of defence staff as to the action that is to be taken. We are both reviewing the report at this point in time. Within a few days we will announce an action plan that will be quick, fair and decisive.

[Elsie Wayne, Progressive Conservative, Saint John, NB]

Mr. Speaker, we all feel the way the minister feels about this situation. This type of conduct is unacceptable in Canada and is scandalous in the Canadian forces.

We have soldiers who have confessed to putting poison in their superior's coffee. We have evidence that medical documents have been taken from files and we have serious breakdowns in the chain of command.

It has been seven years since this information was brought to the attention of the government. Why will the minister not cut the red tape and immediately call for a public inquiry?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we will take the necessary action to deal with all of those issues that the hon. member has raised and we will do it quickly.

I want to emphasize also that what these people have done and what has happened does not reflect upon what the vast majority of the fine dedicated men and women in our Canadian forces are doing, which is honouring this country in their service.

Human Resources Development

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, when we asked the HRD minister for information about some of the million dollar grants that went to people in her riding, she claimed that all that information was private. Yet if an average Canadian appeals his or her employment insurance claim, all those dealings are published on the worldwide web, including intimate details of his or her personal life.

Why the double standard between million dollar grant recipients in the minister's riding and people who are trying to claim EI?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I remind the hon. member that the website has been endorsed by the federal court of appeal. I remind him that the privacy commissioner has applauded us for our response to his report tabled less than two weeks ago.

I ask him what the privacy policy of that party would be. Would he agree with his colleague, the member for Yorkton—Melville, who thinks that even those who are found not guilty or have their charges dropped should have their DNA recorded on file because in his view police only arrest people for good reasons? Would that be part of that party's policy?

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that answer is a good reason why the member is so discredited. The minister—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.