House of Commons Hansard #91 of the 36th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was park.

Topics

Aboriginal AffairsStatements By Members

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

Ivan Grose Liberal Oshawa, ON

Mr. Speaker, as you know, I seldom rise in the House because I think we tend to say too much about too little. That having been said, I have a statement today that passes my quality test.

On April 27 Canada signed a political accord with British Columbia and Wet'suwet'en First Nation. The three parties have committed to work together to identify and increase opportunities for economic development in the Wet'suwet'en community.

The first nation is currently in negotiation of an agreement in principle for a treaty with Canada and British Columbia. As the House is aware, treaty negotiations offer one of the best ways to settle unfinished business and build partnership in B.C.

The Wet'suwet'en have already started speaking to local industries, including the forestry industry, to discover how this accord might involve them as third parties. The accord will also strengthen the already good relations the Wet'suwet'en have forged with their neighbours.

Strengthened economic viability benefits not just the first nations but its neighbours. This accord is a stellar example of how Canada, the provinces and first nations are establishing forward-looking, effective relationships.

Summer Student Employment ProgramStatements By Members

11:10 a.m.

Progressive Conservative

Greg Thompson Progressive Conservative Charlotte, NB

Mr. Speaker, the summer student employment program is falling short of the mark just at a time when students need it most. Tuition fees have risen beyond our young people's ability to pay. Student debt is at an all time high. Student bankruptcies are the highest in the history of the country. These statistics seem to have gone unnoticed by the federal government. Not only do these programs help students but they help small businesses and no-profit organizations as well.

I urge the minister to transfer money from some of the less productive programs in her department, which taxpayers have no tolerance for, to programs that will help the students in this country. The future of the country are young people.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Edmonton North Alberta

Reform

Deborah Grey ReformLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, the HRD minister continues to claim that she has incorporated those recommendations in her six point plan from Deloitte & Touche.

Recommendations were made by Deloitte & Touche on February 2 and the minister made the final plan public on February 6. If we compare the early version with the final version, it is pretty clear that the minister was not in any mood for any revisions. There are no substantive differences between those two reports.

Why did the minister even bother to hire outside help when she knew she was going to ignore it anyhow?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that Deloitte & Touche was hired to look at the draft plan. They looked at it and made suggestions. The suggestions were taken into account in preparing the final plan.

It is important to note that a very important individual, an officer of this parliament, the auditor general, looked at the final plan and spoke to it with approval in the standing committee. I do not know why the hon. member is not willing to accept the judgment of an officer of this House, the auditor general.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Edmonton North Alberta

Reform

Deborah Grey ReformLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, I do not think the auditor general was any more impressed with it than was Deloitte & Touche. Maybe then this minister, when she actually found out the horror of what was going on there, saw that she was totally responsible for it.

If the minister is going to make a claim, she must be prepared to back it up. The minister said that she had acted on the advice of Deloitte & Touche. We know she has not. It would be so simple to bring forward the truth.

Deloitte & Touche criticized the draft plan and there are no substantive differences between that and the final version. There is no clear underlined addressing of that in the final plan. Could the minister or her representative prove it? Read it to me. Where is it in that plan?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, if there is any horror it is in the unsubstantiated premise of my hon. friend.

What the auditor general said about the six point plan, the final version, in his appearance before the standing committee, was that the action plan prepared by the department represented an exceptional response. He also said:

I do believe this is a very thorough plan for corrective action to address the immediate control problems that were identified. Some longer term action plans are also included that further strengthen the approach.

Here is somebody who knows what he is talking about, an officer of this parliament. The hon. member should stop trying to undermine the auditor general and his work.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Edmonton North Alberta

Reform

Deborah Grey ReformLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, that is just a great quote where the auditor general talks about the immediate problem. He knows there is a long term problem here and it is simply not being addressed.

It is unbelievable how a minister of the crown can say that everything is incorporated and everything is going just fine. Her parliamentary secretary thinks everything is grand as well. I would like her to stand up in the House and address some of these pretty serious concerns as well.

Deloitte & Touche said that there was not even, and I quote, “a clear statement of what improvements and outputs it is trying to achieve”. There needs to be a clear summary plan. There is a statement that is necessary and that is not in there.

I ask the parliament secretary, where is that clear summary statement in the six point plan?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:15 a.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. member why she is not willing to accept the word of the auditor general who spoke not only about the immediate impact of the six point plan, but about the long term impact when he appeared before the standing committee and said, with respect to the six point plan, “Some longer term action plans are also included that further strengthen the approach”.

I ask the hon. member why she does not accept the word of the auditor general. Why is she trying to undermine the work of an officer of this House?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, now there is another scathing audit of HRDC that the government tried to hide.

This audit, by respected accounting firm Arthur Andersen, blasts the minister's department for failing to do even basic monitoring of hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars. But surprise. The six pages of the audit criticizing the federal government were removed from the final version.

What is the explanation for this one?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Oakville Ontario

Liberal

Bonnie Brown LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, the objective of the report was to identify potential risk areas in the management of the operation and maintenance funds and to review existing internal controls.

It is an interim report based on 15 interviews where people were asked to identify possible risk areas. This is part of the ongoing process of the department to ensure that we have adequate financial management processes in place.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, here are just a few examples of this minister hiding damning evidence from Canadians. The audit revealing the billion dollar bungle was kept under wraps until an access request forced its release. Now access requests are being routinely withheld. Deloitte & Touche's condemnation of the six point plan was buried. And today we discover that the Arthur Andersen criticism of HRDC was censored.

How can Canadians have any confidence in this minister with her track record of hiding the truth?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

The Speaker

Once again I would ask hon. members to stay away from such terms as hiding the truth. We are getting a little close.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Oakville Ontario

Liberal

Bonnie Brown LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, this minister is leading the government into methods of modern comptrollership and transparency.

In this age of telecommunications, no one can hide anything and no one wants to hide anything. We have released 24 internal audits for the perusal of the opposition. Unfortunately the opposition always looks for only one part of those internal audits where certain things have been identified as being in need of improvement. The opposition never mentions any time an internal audit shows good practices, or best practices.

As usual, the way those members look at life, they harp on the negative.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Bloc

Suzanne Tremblay Bloc Rimouski—Mitis, QC

Mr. Speaker, in July 1997, Human Resources Development Canada in its analysis of the files of the transitional jobs fund asked the firm International Minicut Inc. to return an overpayment of $30,000 for three jobs that were not created.

Why did the minister not make the same request of Placeteco asking it to return the overpayment of $1.2 million, since the company had created no jobs?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Oakville Ontario

Liberal

Bonnie Brown LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, we have given answers on this particular file probably 50 times in the House and the answer remains the same.

In order to call back funds we have to establish the existence of an overpayment. Our review of this file does not indicate that there was an overpayment. Therefore we cannot ask for the money back.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Bloc

Suzanne Tremblay Bloc Rimouski—Mitis, QC

Mr. Speaker, the covering up of tracks has gone on long enough.

Yesterday in her response to my colleague, the minister mixed the file of Placeteco up with that of Techni-Paint, which appears complete, unlike Placeteco's.

If the real invoices are related to real spending for job creation at Placeteco, which we doubt, why is the minister not tabling them in the House?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Oakville Ontario

Liberal

Bonnie Brown LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, there is a process for opposition members to access information they require.

Yesterday they told us that they had asked for this information through access to information, and I am confident that all the information they are requesting, that can be released within the law, will be released, as is the usual practice.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:20 a.m.

Bloc

Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Bloc Laval Centre, QC

Mr. Speaker, for the information of the minister, we did indeed reapply to access to information, and there were no invoices.

For weeks, we have been asking to have the invoices tabled, which would prove beyond a doubt that the money did go to job creation at Placeteco, since we have a document in hand that proves beyond any doubt that the money very definitely went to something else.

When will the minister be tabling the invoices?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

Oakville Ontario

Liberal

Bonnie Brown LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, once again I would say that those invoices which they have requested will be released if it falls within the law. The member knows there are legal requirements that must be followed when publicly releasing personal or business information.

I would encourage the member to stop making unsubstantiated allegations and stop jumping to conclusions.

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral Bloc Laval Centre, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to understand why we got the invoices with some files and why with Placeteco it was impossible.

It is hard to understand the stubbornness of the minister, who, day after day—50 times, she says—has served up the same response on the subject of the Placeteco invoices. It has to be either one or the other: there are no invoices or they are being prepared.

When does the minister intend to table these invoices?

Human Resources DevelopmentOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

Oakville Ontario

Liberal

Bonnie Brown LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, the member opposite has just made an allegation of impropriety. If she has proof of this she should bring it forward and we will investigate.

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, St. John's West has been losing $56.3 million per year since 1993 in unemployment insurance benefits. This means that medium and small businesses are losers too.

My question is for the Deputy Prime Minister. Will the government make the necessary changes to unemployment insurance to allow unemployed workers to feed their families in the morning?

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalDeputy Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, we are concerned with the needs of the unemployed. That is why we have had policies that have created close to two million jobs since we took office in 1993.

For another month, now four months in a row, the unemployment rate has stayed at the record low level of 6.8%.

I can assure my hon. friend that we are concerned with the needs of the unemployed and the first need is to provide an unemployed person with a job. That is what we have been helping to do.

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, the people of St. John's West who lost their jobs are not saying that. The Minister of Finance is balancing the budget and achieving a zero deficit on the backs of the workers who lost their jobs.

Will this government soon make the changes necessary so that those families can feed their kids in St. John's West and across the country? The government has been stealing money from the workers all along.

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

11:25 a.m.

The Speaker

Sometimes in the heat of battle we say things. I know the hon. member did not want to say stealing.