House of Commons Hansard #107 of the 36th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was devco.

Topics

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

8:40 p.m.

NDP

Rick Laliberte NDP Churchill River, SK

Madam Speaker, Bill C-11 deals with an issue concerning the Cape Breton region. Why did the government not allow any consultation to take place? Why could the committee not travel to Cape Breton and speak to the community?

It is not like we are dealing with all coal mines in Canada. We are dealing with one mine in one location, in one city, in one region, in one part of our country. This is why this debate is happening. My hon. colleagues have stood time and time again to bring forward the concern that the community is not being listened to. The community could best represent itself if the bill and its amendments were debated and discussed at the community level.

The motions before us touch on health and safety and jurisdiction. The economic impact of the bill should be designed to be a positive one for the region and the community. Any dismantling of the Devco mine or any rearranging either by private initiative or closure of the mine should be looked at as a positive step out of a very negative move.

The debate today challenges members on the government side to realize that our common goal as parliamentarians is to make the communities in our regions as well as our economic and industrial sectors better places. Closing down the mine or possibly selling it to private interests is a major transition for Cape Breton.

To reach this point has taken decades of evolution. To abandon Cape Bretoners without their having a solid grasp on the details or on the implications is not acceptable. It is fine to draft procedures in a bill, but if we predict the impact it will have on the community that is where the concerns start to overflow into the House. The concerns at the community level far outweigh the benefits.

The community has stated its concerns through its duly elected members of parliament. We are calling on all members of parliament to respect those views. They have been formulated into amendments to create an act that better represents and better serves the community. These amendments are what we are debating tonight.

We want Liberal members to take a second look at the amendments and to vote in favour of getting community representation on the Devco board. We want the pensioners' association, the people who have amassed huge pension funds and huge seniority credits over the years of serving in this company, to have a say in the dissolution of the mine. They should have a vested interest as they know what is best. They risked their lives. This is no ordinary mine by any stretch of the imagination. The health and safety of the miners were in peril in the mines every day.

A good friend of mine, Mr. Matt Minglewood, sings a classic song called Working Man . He is an excellent blues performer from Cape Breton. He sings this song with his heart and soul, just as Rita MacNeil would sing it. It deals with the life of a coal miner and the lost ones who did not make it home. This song hits hard.

These are the concerns of the constituents, the miners and the families and from which the amendments have been formulated. It is detrimental. In my back yard there are uranium mines. There will be a delayed impact on those mine workers. We might be concerned about our miners in about 20 or 30 years when the impact starts to show up. The respiratory and safety issues for coal miners from being underground with unstable minerals, unstable walls and ceilings in some cases are much more immediate. The gases that emanate from this fossil fuel are detrimental constantly. That is the view with which we bring our passionate debate; it is from caring for our workers. We should duly respect them.

We should have taken the committee hearings right into that community because it concerns their mine and their immediate community.

We are at the third group of our amendments. I want to crawl into the conscience of the members who are listening, who are present in the House or who are watching the debate on television in their offices. This will come to a vote. We ask government members to seriously look at these amendments that strengthen the arguments and concerns that constituents have in Cape Breton, and those of the workers and pensioners in terms of losing a livelihood and the opportunity to raise their children as they have been doing for so many generations in that neck of the woods. That is the way I look at it.

That part of Canada has contributed to all of the economy of Canada. The steel that came from Cape Breton built a lot of our railroads and industries in the industrial age. Let us give those people thanks. Let us not disrespect them in a way such as this. Coal energized, heated and electrically lit many of these buildings during much of the electrical revolution which took place. This country was founded on many of the developments from coal that was mined in that region.

Let us give those people due respect. They gave us a fighting chance to have an economic stronghold in Toronto. Toronto should say thanks. Montreal should say thanks. Vancouver should say thanks. All the people we represent in the House should make a conscious effort to thank that region which is hard hit economically, environmentally and healthwise. Some things will be genetically passed on to their offspring.

There is the legacy of the tar ponds, pollution which is being left right in the middle of their community. We have to take responsibility as a nation. We represent the nation of Canada. Bill C-11 attempts to devolve an industry that may be justified. The question of whether it is justified was tossed around. If it is, let us do it in an honourable way.

The honourable process is to debate it correctly and thoroughly. It should be listened to and heeded. If common sense approaches are given by our colleagues in their representations of their constituents and communities, they should be taken seriously by the government. The senior officials of the government should mentor their voters and tell them to vote with their consciences, to vote in the right way.

In closing, the Devco issue has certainly come to a head on making a decision on the future of a community and the livelihood and careers of many families. Let us give it due respect. Let us give that because of what those people have done for the economy of the country and what they have done in trying to represent themselves.

Some of the amendments try to allow workers to sit on the board of directors and to allow pensioners to sit at their association tables. It is so they can make crucial decisions as opposed to parachuting in someone or in the worst case, putting someone in these positions for partisan reasons because of their political stripe or because of the card they carry. Let us respect the community for what it is trying to achieve in its people representing themselves.

An honourable way to end the debate is to vote in favour of the amendments that my hon. colleagues have brought forward.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

8:50 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to speak in this debate and I suppose I would have to say to make one further plea to members present and those members presumably representing their caucuses to take seriously what it is we are involved in tonight.

I heard my colleague from Churchill River say that some of us are trying to get inside the heads of our colleagues opposite to understand what they are really thinking about the impact of the legislation before us on the lives of miners who have devoted literally their working years to the coal mining of Cape Breton and the impact on the whole communities in which those people live.

I suppose for members opposite it may seem we are just here to wrap up a bit of unfinished business, that we are just taking care of what is left over after the miners of Cape Breton have been employed for a period of time by Devco. Now progress has to go forward and since privatization is the mantra of the government on many fronts these days, it is just more of the same and we are just of wrapping up the assets and putting them to bed, washing our hands of it and everything is taken care of.

It is very important for us to take stock of exactly what has gone on here and what it is we are really engaged in, in dealing with this stage of debate on Bill C-11. We need to think about the backdrop for what is going on here. What is the context in which this discussion is taking place?

I know that my colleagues, particularly the two members who so ably represent the people of Cape Breton Island, the member for Sydney—Victoria and the member for Bras d'Or—Cape Breton, have worked very hard to put forward the concerns of their constituents, not just of the coal miners, but of their families, their extended families and their entire communities, really the entire economy of Cape Breton. They have tried to make members, particularly on the government benches, understand the extent to which Devco has been a positive economic development tool for all of Cape Breton Island.

The economy of Cape Breton Island is an exceedingly important part of the economy of the province of Nova Scotia. That is why members from all of Nova Scotia are very much engaged in this debate. But it goes beyond that.

What all of the members of the NDP caucus understand, and it does not appear as though there are many others in the House who understand, is that if the government of the day gets away with doing to the people of Cape Breton Island and to the generations of coal miners of that community, what it is apparently hell-bent on doing, then it could do the same to any other community in Canada. That is why the New Democratic Party has been absolutely steadfast and persistent in standing against what the government is doing here in dismantling Devco and basically saying it will just wash its hands of the future of the coal mining industry in Cape Breton.

The government will do the trendy thing. It will lay it open and invite the privatizers to come in. It will turn it over to private industry. Anybody who thinks that is a welcome initiative to the people of Nova Scotia, particularly the people of Cape Breton, does not know the history of coal mining in Cape Breton.

They do not understand what went on in the lives of miners who were employed by those private corporations. It was hell. It was a very unhappy era in the history of Nova Scotia's economy.

If it is too much to ask government members to go back and look at what happened in the province of Nova Scotia when coal mining was in the hands of the private sector, maybe some of the members opposite could take a moment to think about what went on in the hands of a private corporation in Nova Scotia more recently. There is no one opposite, particularly this week, who can pretend they do not know the history of what happened under the private corporation, the Westray mine, Curragh Resources.

I have to say that in my 20 years in politics, without a doubt, the most horrifying experience that I have ever endured was to spend an evening, as I recall of four or five hours, with the coal miners who had survived the Westray disaster and with the widows and families of the victims of the Westray disaster a day or two after the lives of those 26 miners were lost. If there was one thing that became clear to me, it was the difference it made to coal mining in Cape Breton and in fact much more dangerous coal mining taking place in Cape Breton. Let us be clear that it was much more challenging, with very deep mines way out under the ocean floor. There is no question that it was very dangerous work and very vulnerable to any number of horrifying kinds of disasters.

Does anyone know what the difference was? There was a genuine sense that the public interest had to be protected, that the lives and the livelihoods of the miners had to be protected and that this was a resource, this was an asset to the whole of the Cape Breton and Nova Scotia economy. What a contrast between the experience of workers employed by Devco, a crown corporation in Nova Scotia over the last several decades, and the horrors of what happened under the private coal mining company of Curragh Resources at Westray.

When I contemplate the kind of private industry start-up that apparently the government is very enthusiastic about, at least in concept, I do not think we are fully convinced that the government is serious about coal mining continuing under private auspices. In fact there is every reason to be suspicious that this really is the government saying “Let us wrap up the coal mining in Cape Breton and let us just move on”. There is every reason to be concerned about what this is really about. Even if we took the government at its word and it was enthusiastic about coal mining under private auspices, we have to wonder if it has really learned anything from the lesson of Westray.

If there was any member opposite who did not fully understand what that lesson was before last week, there is no excuse now for saying that they do not understand it. The United Steelworkers of America that represent the surviving miners from Westray have been here on the Hill for the last eight days to make sure that there is no person in this Chamber, no one representing workers anywhere in the 301 ridings in the country who does not understand what it meant for coal mining to take place under the auspices of a private company and where there was no assurance whatsoever of there being a union. That is the other part of it, the health and safety laws of this country mean nothing in the context of a union free mine setting. I have to say in conclusion that the backdrop for this is very alarming, as is the failure of the government to learn the lessons of history.

Another part of the backdrop that I think is highly relevant is the general assembly meetings of the OAS that are taking place in Canada, for the first time since Canada joined the OAS 10 years ago.

We have the spectacle happening right now before our eyes. It is not something that people are talking about as a possible future development but of coal being imported from Colombia, one of the worst countries in the world in terms of labour standards, environmental standards, health and safety, and human rights. That coal will be imported from Colombia to be burned in Nova Scotia because the government has pulled the plug on Devco mining.

We have a government that has no interest in either the current lives and the future of coal miners in that community and the broader impact, or in a serious commitment to ensure the continuation of coal mining in Cape Breton. In view of the developments that are about to unfold and in view of what is already happening as a result of the government basically pulling the plug on coal mining in Cape Breton, it is amazing that we have had almost no participation of government members in the debate around such important issues.

This a very sad day, not just for the miners in Cape Breton who in many cases have given their health or sacrificed their lives to provide coal that has been so important to economy of the country. It is also a sad day to think that the government could turn its back on the regional economy. This country is made up of regional economies. I think it is fair to say that this is a lesson that will not be missed by the people of Nova Scotia or others across the country who care a great deal more for their communities and the regional economies.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

NDP

Bill Blaikie NDP Winnipeg—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The government earlier moved to extend hours because it wanted to have as much debate as possible. I wonder if the House would give its unanimous consent so that the hon. member for Halifax could continue her remarks. I am sure she has more to say on the subject.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

Is there unanimous consent for the hon. member to continue?

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Algoma—Manitoulin Ontario

Liberal

Brent St. Denis LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Natural Resources

Madam Speaker, I will resist the temptation to respond to each and every of the many, shall I be generous, questionable points raised by my hon. friends across the way, except maybe to point out a particularly important point that much was made of, the reference to the very tragic incident at Westray. I want to underline it was the unions that insisted the new owner be subject to the Canada Labour Code and I want to emphasize that the government responded accordingly.

Just very briefly on Motions Nos. 13 and 14, we do not want to tie the hands of the new owner in terms of managing the operation profitably for the benefit of Cape Breton and the whole country. As well, I again underline that the Canada Labour Code will apply.

On Motion No. 15, the Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation was created for the very purpose of economic development in Cape Breton and that function by Devco was transferred to ECBC many years ago.

With that, I would conclude by saying that the government will not be supporting any of these amendments and I thank those who participated.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

Is the House ready for the question?

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

The question is on Motion No. 13. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

All those opposed will please say nay.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

The recorded division on Motion No. 13 stands deferred.

The next question is on Motion No. 14. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

All those opposed will please say nay.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Cape Breton Development Corporation Divestiture Authorization And Dissolution ActGovernment Orders

9:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)

In my opinion the yeas have it.

And more than five members having risen: