Debates of June 6th, 2000

Workplace Safety

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights considered the issue this morning. I understand that it will be reporting back to the House very soon. Obviously I will seriously consider any recommendations in that report.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is discouraging that the justice department has been studying this issue for three years and yet the justice committee took less than three hours to call for urgent action. The legislative drafting is done, the bill is prepared and Canadians support it. What we need is the justice minister's support.

I want a straight answer from the minister. Does the Minister of Justice support the measures in the Westray bill, yes or no?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, let me give the hon. member a straight answer. I understand that the standing committee will report to the House in the coming days. I will receive that report, study it and take very seriously any recommendations found in that report.

National Defence

[David Price, Progressive Conservative, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, senior Canadian air force officers have spoken out about the Prime Minister's decision to deploy combat aircraft to Kosovo. While our aircrews performed admirably, these very experienced officers complain of the lack of adequate equipment which put our air force personnel at extra risk and of burnout. That was because of political decisions to understaff our ground crew.

Would the Minister of National Defence explain why he allowed the PMO to make this decision when clearly they were not properly equipped for the job at hand?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, they were properly equipped for the job at hand. We knew full well what the capabilities of the CF-18s were. In fact they performed admirably. They were involved in over 600 missions. They were asked by the U.S. general in charge of the air operation to lead half of those missions. That is a clear indication of the kind of expertise, training and equipment they had.

That equipment needs upgrading and is going through an incremental modernization program at this time. However, when it came to the call in Kosovo, they performed exceptionally well.

[David Price, Progressive Conservative, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we will not mention the communications equipment.

The Minister of National Defence has a responsibility to stand up for our armed forces personnel. He has the responsibility to tell the PMO when it is making unrealistic demands. He allowed the Prime Minister to commit underequipped troops. He helped make the political decision to understaff our ground crews at Aviano. Why did he not tell the Prime Minister that they were not adequately equipped for the task at hand? For once why did he not just say no?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, that is simply not true. The chief of the air staff made it quite clear at each stage of the way as we engaged in the Kosovo air campaign that he had the people and the equipment that could do the job.

They were not asked to do anything they were not capable of doing. Safety precautions were always kept in mind and in place to ensure that they could do the job, and they did the job in an outstanding fashion.

Human Resources Development

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, even if we strained credulity to the breaking point, we still could not swallow the story that a ticking time bomb the size of the boondoggle audit could escape the notice of any reasonably competent minister of the crown. However, the HRDC minister maintains that she was unaware of the explosive audits for over a quarter of a year. Is that because she was completely out of touch with her department or because no one thought her input would be worthwhile?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let us look at what my input did do. It strengthened the management response. It made sure that the internal audit was made public. It helped write the six point plan that is supported by the auditor general and is now being implemented. And it made sure that 17,000 active files in my department were reviewed.

What we have shown today is that it has never been about money as that party always suggests. It is not about money. It is about making sure we have a strong administrative platform on which to support these important grants and contributions.

[Diane Ablonczy, Reform, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians want to advise the minister that a billion dollars is money.

HRDC deputy minister Claire Morris acknowledged “intensive and sustained management attention” to the internal audit report since June. All this went on for months without any leadership from the minister who said she did not have clue about what was going on until November.

Is the minister simply a figurehead parroting storylines in the House of Commons?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, again I would point out that the department undertook an internal audit. The audit was not complete until late fall. It was brought to me with the completion of the review as well as a management response on November 17. When I reviewed it I insisted on a stronger management response. When that was completed, the whole thing was made public and now of course the rest is history.

Canada Information Office

[Ghislain Lebel, Bloc, Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the following memo from Richard Mongeau is funny, but it is not a joke:

As agreed, we have reviewed the spelling and punctuation of the Quebec regional files. In addition, we have gone over the suggestions from certain departments with Linda Cameron. This was done so as to keep costs as low as possible, as discussed with Roger on Wednesday, December 10.

How does the minister explain that the CIO feels the need to hire a lawyer of the calibre of Richard Mongeau to correct the spelling and punctuation of its documents?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The Minister of Public Works and Government Services.

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I know that the Canada Information Office is creating problems for the Bloc—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

It bothers them that the Canada Information Office tells Quebecers about everything the Canadian government is doing. At the same time, it is collecting information in order to be able to create programs that meet people's needs.

Now they are reduced to looking for commas and periods.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

The question is completely absurd.

[Ghislain Lebel, Bloc, Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we are not the ones looking for commas; Richard Mongeau is.

Yesterday, we saw that Michèle Tremblay, a friend of the minister, was paid twice. Today, we understand that Mr. Mongeau was also paid twice by the CIO, as a lawyer, as an editor, and as a press clipping officer.

Will the minister admit that the only thing Ms. Tremblay and Mr. Mongeau have in common is that they are friends of the minister, friends of contributors to the Liberal Party of Canada's coffers?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

No, Mr. Speaker. Every contract was awarded according to treasury board guidelines.

Certain contracts were put out to tender and I think that the CIO hired professionals according to needs and requirements.

I repeat, it bothers them, but we are going to continue telling Quebecers everything that the Government of Canada does, and why it is worth belonging to this great Canadian federation.

Human Resources Development

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister said she took no action on the problems in her department because how could anyone know, the audit was incomplete, how could anyone taken any action?

The spin doctors in her own department in a document entitled “Communications Approach” knew about it. They said that there will be administrative shortcomings that will be revealed and they had better be up for that. And in what must be the best understatement of the year, they said that the report will indicate that the administration of grants and contributions in her department could do with improvement.

If the communications department knew about it in August, how can the minister say that she cannot do anything until the audit is complete?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is talking about taking no action. What is clear is that party cannot accept the action that we have taken. That action included making the internal audit public. That action included talking with the auditor general to get the remedial plan just right. That action included a full review of all files in my department to ensure that the paperwork was there for the future.

As always that party remains stuck in the past talking about old news, trying to change the facts. None of its huffing and puffing will change the facts as they have been presented over the course of the last five months.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the amazing part is I wonder if she could explain which government was in charge of the boondoggle in the very beginning. When senior managers in her department found out, no changes were made. That was back in July. When her media consultants found out about the problems, nothing happened. When the deputy minister found out, got the word, no changes were made. When the Clerk of the Privy Council found out, nothing happened. I imagine even the janitor knew about it. Nobody made any changes.

The question is how can we trust the minister's administrative abilities when she does not do anything? Even after she found out on November 17, nothing else happened.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the hon. member would do the local human resources office in his riding the courtesy of visiting it to see how much has happened.