Debates of Sept. 19th, 2000

Fuel Prices

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Natural Resources and Minister responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board]

Mr. Speaker, the government is very anxious to have the information that can be provided by the conference board so that all Canadians, those in government as policymakers and those in the private sector who run various industrial parts of our economy as well as individual consumers, can fully see in a transparent way the exact trends in those markets so that when, for example, there are those inexplicable price spikes before long weekends people would be in a position to act.

Health

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Last week's health agreement delays for another 18 months the full restoration of federal health funding to 1994 levels. That delay costs Canadians more than $3 billion, a $3 billion gap between what the Prime Minister promised and what he has delivered.

Will the Prime Minister agree in the House right now, today, to restore the full 1994 levels right away?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. leader of the Conservative Party should know that if we had kept the formula introduced by his government, the restoration would not be a restoration to 18.7. The cash payments today would be $11 billion, because the formula was based on the premise that if the tax revenues were to increase the cash payments were to decline.

We stopped that and that is why today we are in a position to give more cash than ot would have ever been if the Tories had remained in power.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Kings—Hants, NS]

I take it, Mr. Speaker, that the answer is no.

The unilateral cuts made by the Liberal government have devastated this country's health system. Even Monique Bégin has said that this has “deprofessionalized” nursing. It is impossible to create a new health system without the assurance of stable funding.

Will the Prime Minister make a commitment today to introduce legislation to guarantee the stability of federal health funding?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the right hon. member ought to know that, in the agreement we have signed with the provinces, we guaranteed them stable funding in the coming years. All provincial premiers were very satisfied and signed enthusiastically.

At one point, I proposed a return to the formula used by the Conservative government. One of them replied “Maybe”, then consulted his officials and immediately came back with “No, I prefer the Liberal regime”.

Fisheries

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta—South Richmond, BC]

Mr. Speaker, fishermen on Miramichi Bay are angry. More than a thousand traps are in the water now, not 40. More than a half a million pounds of lobster have been harvested. That is over ten times what the minister allowed for.

He caved in to threats and allowed the fishery in the first place. He caved in to threats and refused to haul the illegal traps. Time has run out. The jig is up. The minister's back is against the wall. When will he do his duty and haul the illegal gear?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, unlike the hon. member we believe that it is through dialogue and co-operation that we can resolve these issues.

That is why we have 29 agreements with the first nations that are working extremely well. We have an eminent Canadian, Mr. Bob Rae, who is working extremely hard to bring the parties together.

The party over there wants to divide Canadians. We want to bring Canadians together and solve the real problems of the nation.

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta—South Richmond, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister's dithering has created the problem. The crisis on Miramichi Bay was created by the minister. He was ill prepared for the Marshall decision. He ignored the Marshall clarification. He has refused to make conservation his priority. He has refused to enforce the law.

Will he once and for all do his job, uphold the law and get rid of the illegal traps?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, the government has made a tremendous amount of commitment to make sure that we abide fully with the supreme court ruling with an initial investment of $160 million for the aboriginal people to fully participate in the commercial fishery.

This is working extremely well. We have two bands, Indian Brook and Burnt Church. We are trying to work with them so that they too can participate fully. We provide them with opportunities for access into the fishery, but we need to make sure that we take every avenue to bring the parties together.

At the end of the day, I want to assure the hon. member that the law of the land will be upheld.

Young Offenders

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, today the government is preparing to use exceptional means in order to get its bill to make adolescents into criminals through at all costs, despite the opposition of all those involved in the field in Quebec.

How can the government explain its haste to throw 14 year olds in prison while it expresses concern about the rights and freedoms of known criminal groups?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, we have said many times in the House that our new youth justice legislation is about accountability. It is about responsibility and about providing provinces like Quebec with the flexibility to continue the programs they have in place to work with young people in their provinces.

I find it interesting that today the Quebec Human Rights Commission indicates that there is room for improvement in the youth justice system in Quebec. Therefore, with new federal resources I look forward to working with the hon. member to ensure that even in Quebec we are working together on behalf of Canada's youth.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I think there is something the minister does not understand in this matter.

How can the minister explain her logic? When everyone in Quebec wants to see anti-gang legislation, the minister is hesitant. On the other hand, with her bill making adolescents into criminals, she is rushing ahead, and what is more ignoring the consensus in Quebec.

How can the minister explain the double standard of her logic in the area of justice?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, there is no double standard. In both cases we have listened and we have consulted, not only with the province and people of Quebec but all provinces and territories and all people in the country who have an interest in this area.

Let me again extend an olive branch to the hon. member. We know that the youth justice system in the country is not serving our young people well enough. I ask the hon. member and all members of the House to work with us to ensure this new youth justice legislation is passed.

Fisheries

[Derrek Konrad, Reform, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, on August 28 the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development issued a statement in which he said:

My colleague, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and I have complementary roles to play in addressing the aspirations of first nations on the east coast.

Two weeks later the minister was touring a museum on the west coast, 6,000 kilometres from the action. I do not believe that the minister of Indian affairs has a complimentary role or one of any other kind.

Would the Prime Minister please confirm for the House that the minister of Indian affairs has no role to play in the Burnt Church crisis?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the hon. member that both the minister of Indian affairs and I are working together on the east coast fishery and the first nations issue in terms of the supreme court ruling.

We have been working hard on the fisheries file and there are long term issues that we are working on together. He has been very active and involved in the Atlantic Policy Congress to look at the long term issues of the treaty rights in regard to Marshall. Together we are coming forward with a plan in the fall to make sure that we address some of those long term issues. We will continue to do that.

[Derrek Konrad, Reform, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans answered for the Prime Minister.

Last year the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development made this statement about the effect of the Marshall decision right off the cuff:

Any fishing rights recognized in the Marshall decision are extended to other resources such as forestry, oil and gas.

I would still like the Prime Minister to answer the question. Is it comments like these from the minister that are the real reason for the escalation of events in Burnt Church?

[Bob Nault, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is comments like that which are the reason why first nations people are taking to the blockade to bring their grievances to the government. It is the fearmongering that the member opposite is dealing with that relates to first nations rights, treaty rights in particular.

It is a well known fact that the government has offered the APC, the first nations in Atlantic Canada, an opportunity to talk about treaty relationships which form a larger picture than just fish. That offer has been made. We are waiting and standing by for the first nations and our partners to come to the table.

Budget Surpluses

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance is about to announce the real budget results for the last fiscal year and finally admit that he was off by 300% in his surplus forecasts, something unheard of in Canada.

Will the Minister of Finance admit that his refusal to provide real figures when he makes forecasts is just a strategy to avoid meaningful debates and to justify the drastic cuts to social programs and employment insurance, in spite of the huge surpluses?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member must know that I will deliver my economic statement tomorrow. I will then provide the figures.

I can assure the hon. member that, indeed, the surpluses will be greater than anticipated. Canada is doing really well.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it just so happens that we expected the surplus to be very close to $12 billion.

While the Minister of Finance was making decisions based on forecasts that were off by 300%, taxpayers continued to pay too much tax.

Will the minister admit that this deliberate and hypocritical error in his forecasts has had consequences—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. Members should choose their words very carefully.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Will the minister admit that this deliberate error in his forecasts has had major social consequences and that it is the sick and the unemployed who always end up paying for his incompetence?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, we have surpluses because we are enjoying an incredible economic growth, because we have a great job creation program and because things are going really well in Canada.

I can certainly understand why the opposition member may not be pleased, but Canadians are.

Organized Crime

[Randy White, Reform, Langley—Abbotsford, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the attorney general of Ontario yesterday wrote to the justice minister. In part, this is what he said: “Ontario has repeatedly urged the federal government to improve its anti-gang legislation. I ask you to immediately introduce the necessary amendments to the criminal code”.

I ask the justice minister whether the changes to the criminal code will come a little faster than the Young Offenders Act which we have been waiting for now for seven long years.