Debates of Oct. 17th, 2001

Terrorism

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Portage--Lisgar.

[Brian Pallister, Canadian Alliance, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, in 1995, Canadian Ahmed Sa'id Al-Kadr was arrested in Pakistan for financing a terrorist bombing and the Prime Minister intervened on his behalf.

Foreign affairs officials and CIDA both knew in the 1980s that Al-Kadr was running Saudi money to terrorists in Afghanistan.

The Prime Minister says that he did not know of Mr. Al-Kadr's terrorist record. The Prime Minister was the last to know that the man he went to bat for was a terrorist.

What good is intelligence if it is not shared with the Prime Minister?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, what our Prime Minster asked is what he would ask in any case, that due course be taken. That is how the Prime Minister acts.

[Brian Pallister, Canadian Alliance, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, that is soft on terrorism.

Our allies have frozen the assets of Al-Kadr's former front organization, Human Concern International, and the government still will not act.

The government knew the Tamil Tigers were a front for terrorists before the finance minister dined with them.

The government knew that Ahmed Ressam was a terrorist before he tried to bomb an airport.

The government knew Al-Kadr was a terrorist before the Prime Minister went to bat for him.

What good is expanding intelligence services in this country when the government will not act on the intelligence it already has?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the member seems to have a lot of interesting information but so far Human Concern International is an agency that does not appear on any of the following lists, which are really all the lists that anyone is considering: the 39 individuals and groups that were audited by the U.S. on October 12; the schedule of the recent executive order dated September 24; the state department's list of foreign terrorist organizations; the department of treasury's list of those specially designated persons; and the FBI's most wanted list.

What list are they on?

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, in response to a question as to whether national security would be better served by giving a judge the responsibility to decide whether or not electronic surveillance is required, the Minister of National Defence said, and I quote, “We do have substantial safeguards and regulations for how this is done”.

Can the minister tell us what legislation enables the centre to carry out electronic surveillance at the present time?

[John O'Reilly, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the new authority to intercept communication is for targeted foreign entities and to protect electronic information and information and infrastructure that are of importance to the Government of Canada. It is not to spy on Canadians. Its mandate is enunciated and limited. It collects activities that are prescribed. It ensures the privacy of Canadians. It is targeted to foreign entities only.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that was a pretty complicated statement.

Can the government confirm that, at this time, the centre's activities, particularly its interception of telecommunications, are not governed by any act of parliament?

Let them confess that parliament has no control over the centre at this time. Let the minister admit that.

[John O'Reilly, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I want to assure the member that CSE operates within the law of Canada. It includes abiding by the Criminal Code of Canada, the Canadian Human Rights Act, the Privacy Act and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The commissioner was appointed in 1996. He is the hon. Claude Bisson, former chief justice of the Quebec Court of Appeal. He was reappointed by the Prime Minister. His mandate is to review the activities and to ensure that they comply with all Canadian law.

Citizenship and Immigration

[Paul Forseth, Canadian Alliance, New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, if we are talking about lists, the foreign affairs minister should check the U.K. and the FBI lists.

The citizenship and immigration minister's data reveals that 73 people claim refugee status every day of the year, 26,708 people last year. Many are undocumented arrivals of questionable identity and origin.

How is the system any safer today by continuing to allow the release of these surprise arrivals to just roam in our communities?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the premise of the member's question is incorrect. Anyone who shows up and makes a refugee claim in Canada is fingerprinted and photographed immediately, and an interview is conducted. If there is any concern regarding security, identity or that they might not show up for their hearing, that is grounds for detention.

Whenever we have that kind of evidence we do detain. If we know who the person is and we are not concerned that he or she poses a security risk, we do not detain.

[Paul Forseth, Canadian Alliance, New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, there is a great disconnect from what the law allows and what is actually happening in practice.

The problem is the minister fails to acknowledge the increasing pressure on our system. Our system is in fact swamped to its capacity to properly screen for safety.

When will the minister stop all these undocumented claimants without proper security clearance from just freely roaming in our society?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, my concern is that the member opposite, by giving this false impression, is trying to frighten Canadians, give them the impression that there are people who are not properly identified, that we do not know who they are and that we have concerns that they are a security risk to Canada. That is just simply not true.

Everyone who makes a refugee claim at a port of entry or inland in Canada must satisfy the immigration officer that they do not pose a threat, that we know their identity and that they will appear for their hearing or they will be detained.

Since September 11 we have intensified--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Yukon.

International Co-operation

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, I have spoken in the House about the importance of helping the poor and the Afghan refugees in the aftermath of September 11, and my constituents agree.

Canadians know that our security and the long term security in the region depend on the people of Afghanistan building a secure, peaceful, truly democratic society that cares for all its citizens.

Could the Minister for International Co-operation say what Canada is doing to help achieve that international goal?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said before in the House, Canada has been involved in Afghanistan for some time. We have provided $6 million to assist with the immediate emergency. We also have a special team on the ground to reinforce our ability to co-ordinate with logistics, because it is very important to ensure that we get food into Afghanistan prior to the onset of winter.

This work is very difficult and that is why I am in contact with Unicef and have just had discussions with the Red Cross and the UNHCR on this situation.

Poverty

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, a few minutes ago the Minister of Finance said that the government would be loyal to its social spending commitments which, I might add, are incredibly modest, but in the next breath he said that changing priorities will happen because of September 11.

On this international day to eradicate poverty, there is huge concern that the government will turn a blind eye to the five million Canadians who live below the poverty line. I would like to ask the finance minister to make a clear commitment to provide the financial resources for a national not for profit housing program and for proper resources to deal with the appalling conditions in which aboriginal people live in this country. Is that--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Finance.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, in 1995 when the government brought down the deficit busting budget the one piece of funding that was never cut and was in fact increased was funding for aboriginal Canadians for health care and aboriginal housing.

The fact is that the government has brought in the most far reaching piece of new legislation in terms of helping young families with children. The national child benefit has now arrived at a record level. Our transfers to the provinces for health care and education are at a record level. Our transfers in terms of equalization for basic services today are at a record level. That is what the government--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Palliser.

Agriculture

[Dick Proctor, NDP, Palliser, SK]

Mr. Speaker, in a similar vein the agriculture minister has said he would wait until this year's crop was harvested before assessing the damage. The numbers are in and without doubt there is another disaster looming in rural Canada.

According to the data, realized net farm income will plummet by more than 70% this year in two critically important agricultural provinces, Saskatchewan and P.E.I., and by 32% overall across Canada.

Now that he is armed with the facts will the minister inform the House how the government intends to respond to this latest agricultural crisis?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member mentions being armed with the facts. I think he should go back and read the facts. The realized net farm income in Canada this year will be the highest it has been in a number of years. Program payments through programs such as net income stabilization, crop insurance and other program payments will be close to $4 billion, the highest they have been in a number of years. Those are the facts.

Bioterrorism

[Jim Pankiw, Canadian Alliance, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Mr. Speaker, U.S. postal authorities have taken the precaution of informing Americans about the threat of bioterrorism and what to do if they receive suspicious letters or packages.

Will the minister of public works immediately instruct Canada Post to follow the lead of its American counterparts and issue clear guidelines for Canadians on how to handle suspicious mail?

[Alfonso Gagliano, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, as usual Canada Post always informs its customers to be very diligent in how to deal with mail. We have had some incidents, but after investigation those incidents were found to be false. We have taken all the necessary precautions to make sure that more than 50,000 Canada Post employees have been and are protected with different procedures. We will definitely continue to inform people of the--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Richmond--Arthabaska.