House of Commons Hansard #96 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was security.

Topics

The House resumed from October 16 consideration of the motion that Bill C-287, an act to amend the Food and Drugs Act (genetically modified food), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Food and Drugs ActPrivate Member'S Business

5:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Pursuant to order made Tuesday, October 16, 2001, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred division on the motion at second reading stage of Bill C-287 under private members' business.

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was negatived on the following division:)

Food and Drugs ActPrivate Member'S Business

6:15 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

I declare the motion lost.

It being 6.17 p.m., the House will now proceed to consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

Criminal CodePrivate Member'S Business

6:15 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

John Herron Progressive Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

moved that Bill C-269, an act to amend the Criminal Code and the Firearms Act (exemption of long guns from registration), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to have an opportunity to maintain a very strong commitment I made to the constituents of my riding of Fundy--Royal and, I might add, to an issue that resonates very much throughout rural Canada with regard to a piece of legislation introduced by the government that may be very noble in intent in terms of deterring the criminal use of firearms, but which has become one of the largest fiscal boondoggles we have had in Canadian history. The bill I am referring to is commonly known throughout the country as Bill C-68.

Here is what we are advocating. We all categorically agree that any modern society needs to have provisions in place with respect to the handling of firearms so that individuals who acquire them are properly trained in their use. We need to have provisions in place whereby firearms are stored under lock and key in a place separate from the ammunition. The ammunition should be in one compartment and the firearm itself in another one to avoid any kind of accidental harm.

Members may be familiar with the fact that all of the provisions I have outlined were in what was termed to be one of the most progressive pieces of firearm legislation in the industrialized world, that is, this country's legislation formerly known as Bill C-17, introduced by the Progressive Conservative government. It never had a chance to be measured as to the degree of success it could actually entail.

The bill I have put forward does this. All the safe handling provisions, all the acquisition certificates that Bill C-68 and its predecessor Bill C-17 had and all the issues from a safety perspective are still in place, with the exception that it does not call for the registration of long guns such as rifles and shotguns which are utilized throughout Canada by deer hunters, duck hunters and farmers. We know that registering long guns belonging to deer hunters, duck hunters and farmers will not deter the criminal use of firearms. In fact, I might add that it is an arbitrary tax on those individuals. What we want to do is deter the criminal use of firearms.

The bill is a surgical strike on Bill C-68, keeping the good elements contained in it but extracting the most divisive element. Those weapons or firearms that are not restricted or prohibited, essentially long guns such as shotguns and rifles which are used by deer hunters, duck hunters and farmers, are the only firearms that do not need to be registered in a mandatory fashion. That is it.

In our modern society in this great nation hand guns have been registered since the 1930s. We should never touch that issue. However what I am talking about is--

Criminal CodePrivate Member'S Business

6:15 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Peter MacKay Progressive Conservative Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS

Uncle Henry's rifle.

Criminal CodePrivate Member'S Business

6:15 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

John Herron Progressive Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

The hon. member for Pictou--Antigonish--Guysborough refers to Uncle Henry's rifle. I am not sure he actually does have an Uncle Henry, but these shotguns and rifles are essentially tools that a farmer may use for the protection of his livestock and are kept under lock and key.

My party has always resisted the long gun registry because it simply does not work and it targets the wrong group. This bill is what we would rather have. We know that the minister of justice of the day said that the cost of implementing the registry would be at most a mere $85 million. The member for Edmonton North has fought for this legislation tooth and nail since she became a member of parliament.

Let us just say that it was a noble intent, it was the right thing to do. We disagree with it. Even if it were, we now know the price tag is well above $400 million. We know that there are very prudent estimates that when this thing is finally settled it will cost over $800 million to actually implement.

The point that I want to make is we could use those dollars toward a truly safer street agenda, including more money for the RCMP for overtime, for personnel and for new technologies to fight cyber crime. In the context of the world events which have taken place since September 11, there is the very real issue of putting those added resources toward augmenting the budget of the RCMP or even CSIS to help them fight biker gangs and terrorist cells, as opposed to arbitrarily taxing deer hunters, duck hunters and farmers. It just makes a lot of sense.

I am arguing our position from a purely economic perspective in this regard. Even if it was a noble intent, we now know that not only was it misguided and ill-advised but it has become one of the most comprehensive and expensive boondoggles that the federal government has ever had throughout Canadian history.

We are trying to use this private member's bill, although it is non-votable, to help educate the public to the fact that any reasonable parliamentarian is not against gun control or having more stringent provisions to deter accidental harm from firearms. We want to ensure that we have a mandatory additional penalty in place for any criminal act committed with the use of a firearm. These are the kind of things that the public wants us to do. They want us to deter the criminal use of firearms.

If we want to make our streets safer, why do we not use that $800 million? We still have about $400 million that we can save to achieve a truly safer street agenda. That is why I moved Bill C-269. I made a commitment to the constituents in my riding of Fundy--Royal that at the very least I would do my best to keep the issue alive. That is what I am trying to do with respect to this issue. Maybe that says something to accountability.

I know the member from Cypress Hills--Grasslands has been steadfast in his opposition against this arbitrary registry. I applaud him for his efforts. This is an issue that transcends many party lines. It really is a split on rural Canada versus urban Canada. However even urban Canadians are now saying that when they fought this back in the 1997 election, they thought it was the right thing to do. Now that the price tag is $400 million and it might even get to as high as $800 million, they are saying that perhaps we were right back in 1997, that it was a bad idea and that we were concentrating on the wrong element of society.

Let us target our energies toward criminals. Give the RCMP and our law enforcement officers a tool kit to fight crime. We should take the issue and weigh it on one hand, then on the other. Are we concerned with terrorist cells and having the resources from a security perspective with respect to the RCMP to actually flush those folks out? Are we concerned about organized crime? Instead of taxing deer hunters, duck hunters and farmers, why do we not give the tool kits to the RCMP to fight terrorist cells and biker gangs?

We know that long guns principally are not the weapons of crime in an urban context. Therefore, we are really targeting the wrong group.

It may be a noble intent, but all of the good that we are trying to get out of Bill C-269, I can advocate was already in place with respect to Bill C-17. That would have been a better way to go as opposed to using this useless, cumbersome long gun registry. There are a lot of superlatives being added by my friends and colleagues who join me in their opposition to Bill C-68 and in support of my private member's bill, Bill C-269.

It is not even a cash cow for the government. It is so bureaucratic and so expensive that it is not even paying for itself. Any other reasonable government would have actually cut its losses long ago.

I ask all members to reflect on this particular issue and then, as time goes by, find some way to keep the good and the noble intent that might have been in place in Bill C-68 and ditch the long gun registry, which, at its worst, is an attack on rural attack and clearly is an attack on the legitimate long gun owners of rifles, rifles that are used by deer hunters, duck hunters and farmers.

I want to thank my colleagues for their encouragement and contribution throughout my remarks. If I was ever at a loss for words throughout my speech, there was no shortage of assistance from my friends and colleagues. I want to thank them for their support.

Criminal CodePrivate Member'S Business

6:25 p.m.

Vancouver Quadra B.C.

Liberal

Stephen Owen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak on Bill C-269, an act to amend part III of the criminal code and the Firearms Act, introduced by the hon. member for Fundy Royal.

The bill's proposed amendments to the Firearms Act would exempt all non-restricted rifles and shotguns from registration. The requirements to register restricted and prohibited firearms would remain unchanged, as we have heard. The proposed amendments to part III of the criminal code would exempt the non-restricted rifles and shotguns from offence provisions that deal with possession of a firearm without a registration certificate.

The amendments proposed in Bill C-269 are inconsistent with the goals and aims of the Firearms Act. This act is a very important public safety initiative. It requires the licensing of firearm owners in Canada and the registration of firearms in Canada by the end of 2002.

The bill's proposed amendments would negate the most innovative part of the registration phase of the Canadian firearms program, which is very important to the public safety of Canadians. The requirement to register prohibited and restricted firearms has been in force for decades. It is the registration of non-restricted rifles and shotguns that the Firearms Act, passed in 1995, initiated that is its most innovative feature.

The Minister of Justice cannot support the changes to the legislation that would challenge this contribution to public safety. She cannot condone amendments that would reduce in any way individual responsibility and accountability among firearms owners.

Rifles and shotguns are the most numerous and easily acquired types of firearms in Canada. They are also the types of firearms most often recovered from crime scenes. Over 40% of women killed by their husbands are shot. Most of these women, 78%, are shot with legally owned firearms, usually rifles and shotguns.

Registration links owners to their firearms. This accountability for registered firearms also increases the likelihood of compliance with safe storage and handling practices. It encourages owners to be more careful when they loan firearms and to tell police when firearms are stolen. Excluding rifles and shotguns from registration would remove the vast majority of guns in Canada from this increased accountability.

Registration of non-restricted rifles and shotguns provides police with a new tool to investigate and prosecute firearm related crime involving firearms. Registration will assist in deterring illegal sales of firearms in Canada as all firearms are registered to new owners at the point of sale. Registered firearms cannot easily be given or sold to an unlicensed individual as they can be traced back to the original owner.

Registration is also an important link in the process of keeping firearms from people who pose a threat to public safety. The transfer of ownership of a firearm initiates a background check of the person buying a gun, whether it be a pistol, rifle or shotgun.

Registration is also important to curbing illicit trade and smuggling in firearms. Registration also allows firearms to be traced and tracing can reveal the paths and sources that smugglers use. Such information is essential to finding and stopping the illegal flow of firearms into and out of Canada.

Canada has important obligations in the area of countering firearm trafficking and preventing firearms from going into the black market. In fact this summer Canada joined several countries in signing a firearms protocol toward that end, at a UN small arm's conference.

The Firearms Act is essential to public safety and the registration of rifles and shotguns is a major part of the Canadian firearms program. The Firearms Act, including its registration component, is supported by more than 350 public health, domestic violence, police and community organizations and numerous polls done over the past years show it has the support of more than 70% of the Canadian public. The law enforcement community supports the firearms program as a valuable tool in reducing the number of crimes involving firearms and assisting police in investigating and solving crimes involving firearms.

Firearms owners will see benefits too. Stolen firearms that are registered can be returned to their lawful owners. Registered firearms of sentimental or antique value can be more easily passed on through inheritance and registration papers are proof for use in insurance purposes. The firearms program is a success in terms of public safety.

For these reasons the Minister of Justice does not support the bill and the proposed amendments to part III of the criminal code and the Firearms Act.

Criminal CodePrivate Member'S Business

6:30 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Garry Breitkreuz Canadian Alliance Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, I have quite a bit to say and I will go through my points quite quickly.

I would like to compliment the hon. member for Fundy Royal for bringing the bill forward. While it does not meet our party's policy to repeal and replace Bill C-68, it is a step in the right direction. Consequently, our party supports the hon. member's bill.

If even one argument given by the Liberals in the speech that was just delivered before mine were true we might support it, but not one of those arguments is valid or working.

While the gun registry is likely the most costly and useless part of Bill C-68, it is hardly the most objectionable. Bill C-68 trampled fundamental property rights. Bill C-68 breached the privacy rights of at least 3.5 million Canadians without their knowledge. Bill C-68 placed in jeopardy our charter rights to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure. Bill C-68 eliminated our right to remain silent. Bill C-68 reversed the onus of proof, thereby eliminating our rights to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. It infringes on the treaty rights of aboriginal people. It intrudes unnecessarily into the exclusive constitutional jurisdiction of the provinces over property and civil rights, health, safety and education.

Those are just a few of the more objectionable contents of Bill C-68 and the reasons why the whole thing should be scrapped and why we need to sit down with the provinces and responsible firearms' owners and design a system of gun control that will be effective.

On August 29 the privacy commissioner reported a fact that should have embarrassed the government. The media should have jumped on it but they did not. Most provinces and territories have opted out of the administration of the firearms program than have opted in.

On page 11 of his report the privacy commissioner stated, and I quote:

There are 6 opt-in provinces that administer the Firearms Program themselves and 7 opt-out provinces and territories where the Federal Government administers the Program.

So much for the idea of co-operative federalism under this government.

The new B.C. government has expressed its distaste for the gun registry and just last week I heard rumours that it will seriously consider opting out of the administration of the gun registry component of Bill C-68.

If B.C. goes there would be eight provinces and territories that already have opted out. They are trying to send a message to the federal government. Here is quote to show why it must be replaced and repealed in its entirety.

On June 13, 1995, the then leader of the Reform Party stated, and I quote:

I therefore submit in conclusion that Bill C-68, if passed into law, will not be a good law. It will be a bad law, a blight on the legislative record of the government, a law that fails the three great tests of constitutionality, of effectiveness and of democratic consent of the governed. What should be the fate of a bad law? It should be repealed, which is precisely what a Reform government will do when it eventually replaces this government.

Six years later, with more than half a billion dollars wasted and a bloated bureaucracy of 1,800 people, I can say that Bill C-68 still fails the three tests of constitutionality, of effectiveness and of democratic consent of the government. I would like to give, as quickly as possible, 10 reasons why we should repeal it right now.

First, it has already cost at least one life. The Liberals defend their soon to be billion dollar boondoggle by saying that if the gun registry saves one life it will be worth it.

On March 15, 2000, a man in Nain, Newfoundland, who was prohibited from owning a firearm, went to the RCMP, picked up the rifle they had been storing for him and has been charged with killing a 15 year old boy. The aboriginal exemptions and adaptations in Bill C-68 likely forced the RCMP to give the man his murder weapon.

Second, Bill C-68 costs are at least six times higher than promised. According to access to information requests, Bill C-68 has cost more than $500 million and is not even fully implemented yet.

In 1995 the justice minister promised it would only cost $85 million. The Liberals have resorted to using cabinet secrecy to hide the gun registry budgets and economic impact reports from the public, and I still cannot get that information.

Third, Bill C-68 is opposed by the majority of provinces and territories. In 1995 the Liberals rammed Bill C-68 through parliament and down the throats of the provinces. In February 2000 six provinces and two territories challenged the constitutionality of the legislation in the supreme court.

Fourth, Bill C-68 has increased black market gun sales. The justice minister's own group on firearms warned her that Bill C-68 created so much red tape trying to regulate legal gun sales that black market gun sales were on the increase.

Fifth, Bill C-68 is opposed by frontline police officers. Every survey ever taken by the police shows that between 76% and 91% of frontline police officers oppose Bill C-68. According to police sources Bill C-68 alienates honest citizens and diminishes respect for the law. In March the president of the Canadian Police Association stated:

It bothers me that the public would not support me in my line of duty. We've never been at odds with the public before. This issue has done this.

Constable John Gayder wrote:

In fact, the Firearms Act violates every one of Peel's Principles of policing

Sixth, the gun registry is riddled with errors. The Liberals have so badly bungled the implementation of the bill that registration, licensing errors and non-compliance by millions of responsible firearms owners render the data in the gun registry unreliable and useless to police. Aboriginal people are publicly defying the licensing and registration system. The government admits that 320,000 gun owners failed to apply for a firearms licence.

RCMP Superintendent Mike Buisson, director of firearms, advised his staff that 90% of registration applications have errors. Despite this fact daily production quotas have been tripled. Verifiers have been laid off and staff directed to ignore the errors on registration applications. The firearms registry is the biggest garbage collection system in the country.

Seventh, Bill C-68 has taken police off the street. In April a briefing note to the Minister of Justice reported that there were over 1,800 employees associated with the firearms program. This included about 400 employees in RCMP operations in Ottawa.

The report to the minister did not include the hundreds of firearms officers working for provincial, regional and municipal police forces. On September 21, 1995, Ontario Solicitor General Bob Runciman told the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs:

In national terms, $85 million would put another 1,000 customs agents on the border; 500 million dollars would put an extra 5,900 police officers on the street.

After September 11, should we not be paying attention to where we should be putting our public safety law enforcement officers?

Eighth, Bill C-68 has diverted resources from real policing priorities. More than half a billion dollars wasted so far on this fatally flawed gun registry scheme could have been used for more important police priorities. The police wanted a sex offender registry or a DNA databank for all criminals. One of the Canadian police association's slogans was “Register criminals before firearms”. Is the government listening? No, it is not.

Ninth, Bill C-68 proved that registration does lead to confiscation. I will not go into the details, but it has happened. On November 15, 1997, the Montreal Gazette quoted the Deputy Prime Minister as saying:

This could be the start of a global movement that would spur development of an instrument to ban firearms worldwide similar to our land mines initiative.

In drafting a new law to replace Bill C-68 the Liberal government must understand that it is impossible to make anyone safer by laying a piece of paper beside a gun. What should we do? We should be positive and replace Bill C-68 with legislation based on fundamental principles.

It should crack down on criminals who use weapons, not responsible firearms owners. It should be easy to understand, administer and enforce the system. It should be cost effective and reduce the criminal use of firearms.

It should curtail smuggling and black market sales, not increase them like it has. It should convince the vast majority of gun owners to help the government and the police implement it. It should convince all taxpayers to share the cost because everyone benefits from improved public safety. It should be able to pass a public safety test administered by the Auditor General of Canada. It should respect the exclusive constitutional jurisdiction of the provinces and have their full support. It should respect the fundamental rights of all individuals, especially property rights.

Criminal CodePrivate Member'S Business

6:40 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

John Herron Progressive Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that we will not have an opportunity to extend the debate. I want to compliment the member for Cypress Hills--Grasslands who has been steadfast in his work on this particular file. For the most part, I completely concur with his comments. I applaud his commitment to his own constituents on this particular issue.

The hon. member pointed out the very real fact that 6 out of 10 provinces, representing well over 80% of the population, whose provincial governments for the most part will have to pay for a lot of the implementation of that ill-advised act, opposed the Liberal long gun registry.

It is clear, even in rural Canada, that taxing deer hunters, duck hunters and farmers does not make any sense. We should be focusing our energies on mandatory penalties for those individuals who commit crimes using a firearm.

I would argue that the benchmark of any law should be whether it is effective at obtaining its objectives, which is to deter the criminal use of firearms, and whether it is cost effective. We know in point of fact that it is not effective in deterring the criminal use of firearms. We also now know that something that was supposed to cost only $85 million will probably cost at least $800 million once it is fully implemented.

In this modern era, since September 11, why do we not use those additional resources to ensure the security and perimeter of this country in terms of the appropriate border officials from a customs perspective and the ports police? Those issues should be addressed as well. Let us give that money to the RCMP for new technology to fight cyber crime or the subversive elements that exist internationally. We could give the money to CSIS to augment its budget.

Let us give more money to the RCMP to fight organized crime as opposed to taxing rural Canadians who are owners of long guns and shotguns. These rifles are owned by our neighbours. They are the people who would comply with the law. The biker gangs will not be running out to the kiosks in malls to register their long guns.

I was very impressed with the comment made by the member for Cypress Hills--Grasslands with respect to the massive increase in black market sales that has taken place with respect to firearms. That was essentially what we were very much trying to resist.

In a modern society everybody knows that we need to have stringent regulations with respect to firearms to prevent accidental harm to individuals. We need to ensure that we have rules in place.

Of course we should maintain the mandatory registry for handguns. That has been in place since the 1930s. However, it is not about handguns and it is not about Uzis, for which there may be debate in the states, it is about long guns, ones that are used by everyday hunters and everyday farmers who live throughout this great country.

I would move to seek unanimous consent for this private member's bill to be votable so hon. members could have a chance to vote on it.

Criminal CodePrivate Member'S Business

6:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Is there unanimous consent to make this item a votable item?

Criminal CodePrivate Member'S Business

6:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Criminal CodePrivate Member'S Business

6:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

Criminal CodePrivate Member'S Business

6:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

The time provided for the consideration of private members' business has now expired. As the motion has not been designated as a votable item, the order is dropped from the order paper.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Criminal CodeAdjournment Proceedings

6:50 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

These being our first adjournment proceedings since the standing orders were changed, I would like to remind the hon. members of the new system we adopted.

The member who raises the question may speak for up to four minutes, as was the case before. The minister, or the parliamentary secretary, now has four minutes in which to answer. Then, the member who raised the question and the minister, or the parliamentary secretary, will each have one minute to respond.

Criminal CodeAdjournment Proceedings

6:50 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, on October 1, 2001, I put a question to the Minister of Human Resources Development in the House—it was the parliamentary secretary who replied—about Air Canada employees, who were going through a very difficult time financially as a result of the events of September 11.

I asked her at that time whether the government was prepared to take special action in order to reduce the impact of the massive layoffs resulting from the crisis caused by the acts of terrorism, which was affecting the airlines in particular.

Since then, there have been meetings but no results. We are still awaiting a response. Air Canada employees are calling for a program of assistance for older workers, to provide those who have the most experience but are prepared to retire with a program to bridge the gap between the time they leave their job and the time they start to receive old age or other pension benefits. This would allow younger employees to keep their jobs and would be a very desirable approach.

Furthermore, it is expected that 750 people will show up tomorrow to demand that the federal government act accordingly and take appropriate steps.

This is a blatant example of the fact that, since September 11, in terms of activities in support of the economic downturn, the federal government's position is probably the weakest.

To deal with the security issue, the government introduced anti-terrorism legislation, and several ministers appeared before the various committees, but in terms of social support, in connection with the layoffs, we are having a harder time convincing the government that special measures are indeed necessary.

For example, in the area of tourism, the government of Quebec recently unveiled an advertising campaign to encourage tourists to start flying again, to come and visit Quebec, to enjoy, as they always have, our quality of life.

We have seen nothing similar from the federal government, especially not for those affected.

Travel agencies made representations to us. The minister's office had to be contacted. Support on this issue is significant, but ad hoc interventions are always required before any openness is shown at the department, so that those hit by the massive layoffs resulting from the events of September 11 can benefit from what ought to come naturally, that is an open attitude.

I would like the parliamentary secretary to confirm today that, indeed, there will be openness in resolving the matter of the Air Canada employees and that they will be allowed to have a program to help older employees who may wish to voluntarily leave the company do so under reasonable circumstances, so that younger workers may keep their jobs.

I think this is a legitimate request. Several weeks have passed since the events of September 11, and we are awaiting a positive response from the government very soon.

Criminal CodeAdjournment Proceedings

6:50 p.m.

Laval West Québec

Liberal

Raymonde Folco LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt the employees of Air Canada have faced difficult, if not extremely difficult, days and weeks. There is no doubt that all employees in air transportation will be profoundly affected by the announced layoffs.

We have just read in today's paper of other possible layoffs, especially in the Montreal area. Our government knows very well that, where jobs are involved, it is already difficult enough to deal with the precariousness of some of them.

I would like to assure my colleague opposite that we are doing everything in our power to help the employees affected and their company, in this time of uncertainty and great difficulty.

And what about Air Canada employees? The Minister of Human Resources Development has expressed this same message of concern about employees who have been laid off and those who may be very soon to the representatives of Air Canada, when she met them at the beginning of the month.

I believe it is important to look at the chronology of what the department, and the minister in particular, have done. She again made herself perfectly clear on this at another subsequent meeting with representatives of the department and of Air Canada at which programs available from HRDC to help their employees were discussed.

The job share program is precisely one of the measures HRDC has proposed to Air Canada.

I have been asked by a number of people just what this job sharing is all about. It is a very interesting program, one that does not necessarily suit all companies, but which could be put in place in the case of Air Canada, for example, or any other company that meets the program criteria.

It is intended to help employers forced to take austerity measures, and this means that layoffs may be avoided.

How can this result be achieved? The work week is shortened, and wages are reduced accordingly. HRDC lets the workers draw EI benefits for the days they do not work, which helps compensate for the reduction in wages.

So, in participating workplaces, employees receive partial salaries but also draw employment insurance benefits.

The main advantage of this program is what it has to offer employees. Not only does it help lessen the difficulties surrounding layoff, but it also helps workers retain their skills and continue to make profitable use of them in their work.

The next step between the employers and the department was a meeting between departmental and Air Canada representatives. So far, discussions have mainly focused on job sharing as a means of reducing the number of layoffs.

Now the ball is in the airlines' and unions' court, as they have to look at the mechanisms of application they would like to see put in place in connection with the job sharing agreements.

I am confident at this time that good will and flexibility will make it possible for us to support one or more job sharing agreements in the airline industry.

Criminal CodeAdjournment Proceedings

6:55 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Human Resources Development says so herself. More layoffs are coming. So the situation will continue.

If, as the parliamentary secretary says, the government is doing all it can to remedy the situation, why do people feel they have to come to Ottawa tomorrow to demonstrate? Why are 750 employee representatives going to be here to ask the government to do something? Because this is what is at issue here.

We want the government to act. The time for studies and proposals is past. Now what is needed is definite proposals on the table. There has been a lot of talk about shared jobs. Indeed, this is an interesting program. But why not also have a program to assist older employees, as people are calling for? In other words, some flexibility reflecting the makeup of the workforce of this company.

Is the government going to decide to take action, to send definite signals and to initiate the changes sought by workers and justified by the state of the economy at the moment?

Criminal CodeAdjournment Proceedings

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Raymonde Folco Liberal Laval West, QC

Mr. Speaker, I remind the member opposite that the employment insurance program is working, and is working very well. The very reason it was created was to respond, in part, to the needs of these individuals.

I do not know what those who are going to demonstrate on Parliament Hill tomorrow are thinking, but I sincerely wonder how aware they are of the efforts their employer—if their employer is Air Canada—has made to find a solution with the department.

I can tell the member that we expect to receive a request to approve work sharing from Air Canada shortly and that, when we do, we will pass it along to a team, within the department which was put together for that purpose and which will proceed as quickly as possible.

I emphasize—and I say this to the member—that the employment insurance program is there to help Air Canada employees. The department will work with Air Canada, as it has already begun to do. We have great hope that this program will work very well in the days to come.

Criminal CodeAdjournment Proceedings

7 p.m.

NDP

Libby Davies NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, since the tragic events of September 11 we in the federal New Democratic Party have condemned in the strongest possible terms as crimes against humanity the terrorist attacks of September 11. We call for the perpetrators to be brought to justice before an international tribunal to be established by the United Nations Security Council and approved by the UN General Assembly.

We have also been clear in opposing the federal government's decision to commit Canadian military support to the U.S. led military action, particularly given that the U.S. has indicated that it may be prepared to expand its attacks to other countries beyond Afghanistan.

We have also supported calls to work in the longer term to eradicate the conditions from which despair, violence, hatred and discord arise.

We have also urged the federal government to lead all Canadians in fighting against the rising tide of intolerance and racism in the aftermath of September 11, particularly directed at Muslims and Arab Canadians. That is the focus of my remarks in the House tonight.

Canada is one of the most ethnically mixed and multicultural nations in the world. My own riding of Vancouver East, which I am very proud to represent, is one of the most diverse in the country.

While we can all be proud that the very meaning of Canada is about diversity and respecting differences, we must also come to terms with the fact that nearly 275,000 Canadians were victims of hate crimes last year according to Statistics Canada. Sadly since September 11 the number of racist incidents in Canada has been on the rise. We have heard of them as they have been reported in the media.

In Cold Lake, Alberta, Canadian born Muslims got phone calls telling them that all Arabs should be killed. In Oakville, Ontario five students were assaulted for being Arabs. In Ottawa a young Arab teen was beaten unconscious by two other teenagers.

We can only begin to imagine the human pain and suffering that this causes, particularly for young people who are trying to come to terms with what is going on.

We also know that according to the police in Ottawa there has been a doubling of racist incidents reported in our national capital since the attack on the World Trade Center Other cities are also reporting a significant increase.

We in the NDP have called on the federal government to take urgent action to fight racism and discrimination. We have urged the federal government to adopt an action plan that would include public discussion and education and clear enforcement of the criminal code sections concerning racism. We have called on the government to appoint a task force to monitor the reported incidents of racism and to monitor police investigations and prosecutions.

We also call on the Liberal government to reaffirm Canadian values and support for multiculturalism that was introduced as Canadian policy in 1971 by then Prime Minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau. Back in 1971 the New Democratic Party welcomed that commitment. Our leader of the day, the Hon. David Lewis, clearly stated:

The diversity of cultures across (Canada) is a source of our greatness as a people...in every society a minority has a problem, the problem of survival, the problem of keeping alive its history, its language, its traditions, its songs, its legends, its identity. When the majority in a society is as cruel as majorities have often been, not only are minorities crushed but the spirit of that society, the soul of that society, is destroyed.

We need to heed the words of Mr. Lewis today. We need to reaffirm our commitment to the observance of human rights and civil liberties, particularly as we now debate Bill C-36 on anti-terrorism and respect civil rights in this country.

Criminal CodeAdjournment Proceedings

7 p.m.

Vancouver Quadra B.C.

Liberal

Stephen Owen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I commend the hon. member for her eloquent and important words and her question in the House. I too have the honour of representing a Vancouver constituency with an immensely diverse cultural makeup.

Certainly all members of the government and the hon. member's party, and she has eloquently restated it, support the principles of multiculturalism that underpin the strength of our country. Diversity is our strength, but we also appreciate that that very diversity, where it is reflected in minorities, can sometimes put those minorities at risk from hate and discrimination in our society.

As the Prime Minister indicated in his reply to the hon. member's question, he has consistently condemned hate motivated threats and acts on virtually every occasion on which he has commented on the aftermath of the tragic events of September 11. He, along with the leaders of all parties in the House, has called on Canadians to demonstrate the tolerance and understanding upon which our multicultural and democratic society has been built.

The Prime Minister also referred in his response to the fact that the Criminal Code of Canada contains provisions which can and should be used to address the problem of hate motivated crime. Sections 318 and 319 of the code provide the offences of advocating or promoting genocide or public incitement of hatred against an identifiable group. These measures have been used effectively in prosecuting hate motivated crimes in the case of Keegstra and others.

In 1995 parliament passed what the Supreme Court of Canada called the most significant reform of the law of sentencing in Canadian history. One of the key elements of those reforms was the inclusion in the criminal code of a statement of the purpose and principles of sentencing.

Among the principles in the criminal code is found subsection 718.2( a )(i), which states that “evidence that the offence was motivated by bias, prejudice or hate based on race, national or ethnic origin, language, colour, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation or any other similar factor” shall be deemed to be an aggravating circumstance in sentencing. This means that if the court finds that the offence was motivated by hate based on one of these grounds, the sentence should be increased to reflect society's condemnation of that fact.

A threat, or in the case that the hon. member cited, an assault against one member of a religious group can be designed to have an impact on all members of that group by creating an environment of fear and intimidation among them.

This change to the law appears to be having an impact on sentencing patterns. The leading case on the interpretation of subsection 718.2( a )(i) comes from the hon. member's province and mine. In Regina v Miloszewski, five men, all self-proclaimed racists, who kicked and beat a Sikh man to death in the parking lot of a temple in Surrey pleaded guilty to manslaughter. The lengthy sentences imposed showed that this subsection had a significant influence on the sentencing judge. Judge Stewart said the subsection was “a direction to sentencing judges to give substantial weight to this aggravating factor as the section now reflects the will of Canadians as expressed by parliament”.

Just last week another hate crime was dealt with in a New Brunswick court. A 19-year-old man was convicted of placing a cross on the lawn of a black family and lighting it on fire. He was found guilty of willful promotion of hatred and sentenced to four months in jail. He was also placed on three years probation, the maximum permitted by the code, and ordered to undergo sensitivity therapy.

Cases such as these show that we have the tools in our law to respond sternly to hate based crime.

Criminal CodeAdjournment Proceedings

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Libby Davies NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, I certainly appreciate the comments of the hon. member.

I agree that the Prime Minister and in fact all leaders and my own leader presented a motion for the unanimous approval of the House condemning the increase in racism.

It is disappointing that the government has not been forthcoming or specific in terms of what it now intends to do when it is clearly visible to us that certain groups, members of the Muslim community, Canadian Arabs in particular, are being targeted as a result of the aftermath of September 11.

I again urge the government to be committed to a specific action plan that focuses on broad education. For example, the $500,000 that is in the budget now is already committed. We need to be doing additional work in this area and setting up a special task force to monitor these report crimes. I would ask the member to respond to that specifically.

Criminal CodeAdjournment Proceedings

7:05 p.m.

Liberal

Stephen Owen Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the hon. member's suggestions. I think all of us in the House support the condemnation of hate motivated crimes.

Many provinces have hate crimes units. British Columbia has one which looks into such matters through the province's prosecution services and police forces. Canada's multiculturalism programs must give these issues the special attention they are due.

Earlier this week the Minister of Justice tabled in the House the government's package of anti-terrorism measures. Included in Bill C-36 is an amendment that would create a new criminal offence of mischief to religious buildings or property which is “motivated by bias, prejudice or hate based on religion, race, colour or national or ethnic origin”.

These measures, in addition to the provisions I have mentioned and the multiculturalism policies of Canada, can be focused on the concerns the hon. member has raised.

Criminal CodeAdjournment Proceedings

7:10 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 7.10 p.m.)