Debates of Oct. 4th, 2001

International Security

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, a former prime minister should be fully aware that we have a very efficient security intelligence agency and one of the best police forces in the world. We are one of the safest countries to live in the world because we do not disclose security secrets on the floor of the House of Commons or anywhere else publicly.

[Joe Clark, Progressive Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, what a double standard. While the British parliament provides that information, the Canadian parliament does not. They probably do not even tell their own Prime Minister because it is clear he does not know what is going on.

We have learned that CIDA is investigating its funding to determine if there are any links to terrorists. Is the Export Development Corporation conducting a similar investigation? Is that happening with other agencies or departments of the Government of Canada? Will the results of those investigations be made available here to this freely elected Parliament of Canada?

[Maria Minna, Liberal, Minister for International Cooperation]

Mr. Speaker, there is absolutely not one shred of evidence with respect to the article that was in the paper today alleging that CIDA moneys were spent incorrectly. We tracked every single dollar and made sure that the funds received by IDRF were absolutely used for the forum for which they were intended.

There was not one shred of evidence that CIDA dollars went to anything. It is totally unconscionable, based on unsubstantiated information and is unacceptable.

Citizenship and Immigration

[Paul Forseth, Canadian Alliance, New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration.

Americans are very concerned about Canada's lax refugee policies. In fact for over 10 years the government has failed to determine a list of safe third countries under the Immigration Act.

A memorandum on a joint responsibility agreement with the U.S. was signed over six years ago but still has not been implemented.

Why will the government not finally determine a safe list of third countries from which we do not accept claimants?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, let me share with the member opposite and all members in the House what senior commissioner for the INS, Mr. Ziglar, had to say about his relationship with Canada. He said “Our relationship with Canadians is a very productive, very friendly and very co-operative relationship. It is because of that relationship with Canadians, in terms of intelligence sharing and information sharing, that they have been extremely helpful to the United States in our abilities to detect and apprehend criminal aliens on our northern border”.

This country works very co-operatively with the United States. The member should know--

[Paul Forseth, Canadian Alliance, New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we all know the minister did not answer the question.

Under the principle of country of first safe haven, why has the minister not negotiated a bilateral agreement with the United States for us not to accept any refugees from them and they do not accept any from us? It would be an immediate big relief on resources on both sides to help keep our borders open.

Why has the minister not negotiated such a good neighbourly agreement with the United States so we both could feel much more secure?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I will be very clear in my answer.

In the existing immigration bill and in Bill C-11 the ability to negotiate a bilateral safe third agreement is there. A number of years ago there were discussions but given the fact that more than 40% of refugee claimants in Canada come to Canada through the United States, the United States was not interested in pursuing that agreement.

Employment Insurance

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last June, when the economy was in fine shape, hon. members unanimously adopted a report recommending that the Minister of Human Resources Development make some significant changes to the EI program. What was urgent last summer is all the more urgent now.

I am asking the minister whether she intends to accept the committee's arguments, follow up on the Bloc Quebecois proposals, and put in place the unanimous recommendations she has had on her desk for five months now.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, last June the House adopted changes to the employment insurance program that have made it more useful and available to Canadians than it would have been back then.

I would remind the hon. member that he and his party voted against those changes that accorded better access for women and better access for men and women in seasonal industries.

Why is it so much more urgent now than it was back in June?

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the minister said she had no reason to believe that special measures were necessary. Today, she is repeating the same blasted thing.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, Oh!

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

She is the only one who seems not to be aware that there has been a fundamental change in the situation. Even President Bush has just suggested adding 13 weeks to the American unemployment insurance program.

Is the minister going to finally get going, realize the urgency of the situation, and announce special measures to deal with the crisis?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, no matter what the timeframe, if men and women in Canada find themselves through no fault of their own without employment, we believe the employment insurance program should be there to help them. We are glad we are continuing to improve it to make it more accessible.

We have nothing to learn from that party on the importance of employment insurance. We are glad it is there.

My priority is to ensure that my officials are working with Canadians who need those benefits so they get them in a timely fashion.

Citizenship and Immigration

[Lynne Yelich, Canadian Alliance, Blackstrap, SK]

Mr. Speaker, we read in the media this morning that the minister welcomes Ontario's initiative to enforce deportation orders but in committee today her own colleague dismissed the idea as grandstanding.

We are left wondering what the government's real position is.

Will the minister commit unequivocally to working with Ontario and any other province that comes forward to pick up the slack in the deportation of people illegally in Canada?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, when someone is in Canada illegally it can mean they have overstayed a visitor's visa. It can mean that they are a failed refugee claimant with a deportation order.

What I hear the member opposite doing, which concerns me, is equating refugees with criminals. When I think of refugees I think of Hungarians, of Vietnamese, of Kosovars and others who have come to us and who are in need of our protection.

It is simply wrong to broad-brush all of those who are in Canada who have deportation orders.

[Lynne Yelich, Canadian Alliance, Blackstrap, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the minister was not listening. A provincial government is now enforcing federal immigration laws. Provinces are now forced to ensure the safety of their residents because the federal government did not act.

If, as the minister has said, her government welcomes and supports the creation of a special police enforcement unit by Ontario, will she announce today that the federal government is willing to commit both funds and personnel to this new initiative?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the member is wrong. For many years, in fact as long as I think most Canadians would know, departments of government, different levels of government and police forces have worked together.

I have to tell the member opposite that there is a 24-hour, seven day a week warrant centre. All police forces across the country and different levels of government work together to check anyone who is apprehended to see if there is an outstanding warrant. We have worked together and we will continue to work together to make sure that those people who should leave Canada leave Canada as soon as possible.

Foreign Trade

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the foreign trade of Quebec and of Canada has been greatly affected by the September 11 attacks, which have resulted in security taking priority over the flow of goods at the Canada-U.S. border. According to the Manufacturiers exportateurs du Québec, exports by Quebec companies to the United States have dropped 15% since the attacks. On an annual basis, this represents a shortfall of $8 billion.

Would it not be wise for the Minister of Foreign Affairs to give serious thought to creating a North American security perimeter with his NAFTA partners in order to ensure the uninterrupted flow of goods and people, with due regard for security imperatives?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I said in committee this morning, we must work directly on existing problems and on those which are perceived to exist between the two governments.

Until now, our problems have not been the same as those of the United States, but I myself indicated to Governor Ridge, who has just been appointed, to my colleague, the solicitor general, and to the U.S. attorney general, that we are prepared to work with them, step by step, to find the best solutions to the border situation.

[Pierre Paquette, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in this context, would the minister agree to call a meeting of his NAFTA partners, the United States and Mexico, to discuss an agreement to establish a security perimeter which would strike a fair balance between trade and security imperatives, our humanitarian commitments and respect for civil liberties?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the member may be making matters more complicated than necessary. There are already problems between the United States and Mexico with respect to the border between those two countries. We do not need to complicate the situation at the Canada-U.S. border by dragging in the situation at the border to the south of the United States.

Terrorism

[Brian Pallister, Canadian Alliance, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, unlike this government, the United Kingdom did not wait to be asked to commit military support. It volunteered. Unbelievably, yesterday the Prime Minister accused Prime Minister Blair of raising the level of fear and rhetoric and he derided him as Tory Blair.

Canadians agree with Mr. Blair when he says that whatever the dangers of the action we take, the dangers of inaction are far greater.

Why does the Prime Minister not comprehend the wisdom of those words?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, we volunteered any of our capabilities, either in a military context or any other context, right from the very beginning.

In fact, we were asked on September 11 to take airplanes out of U.S. airspace into Canada. We were asked on September 12 to put additional aircraft into NORAD. We have done both of those. We were asked on September 12, 13 and beyond that to help in terms of additional intelligence gathering and analysis. We have done that.

We have also offered many other ways of supporting this campaign against terrorism. We have been up to the plate and volunteered.

[Brian Pallister, Canadian Alliance, Portage—Lisgar, MB]

Mr. Speaker, rather than criticizing Prime Minister Blair, our Prime Minister should consider emulating him. The United States has asked NATO for help and the United Kingdom is already there.

The Australians and Germans have indicated they are ready to go but all this government seems to be talking about is backfilling in the Balkans while American and British troops redeploy to Afghanistan's front line.

Why should Canada's commitment be limited to holding the coats of Americans and Brits while they do the fighting for freedom?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, that is absolutely false. At NATO a number of capabilities have been asked for and we have indicated agreement with them.

On top of that, we have been in touch on a daily basis with the United States in terms of what we can provide and in terms of a bilateral agreement with it.

We have been there. As the ambassador of the United States to Canada said, Canada has been there and Canada has come to the plate whenever it has been asked. We will continue to be there.